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Thrill of the Hunt isn't OP
Comments
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Ruin adds a much needed slow down to the already too fast gen speeds. My point is if people worked on gens then the killer would need to defend them and totems. Personally with the way totems spawn currently I think this buff is fair. I'm fine with nerfing it if they did something about the spawn locations so survivors can't spawn in right next to a hex and disable it before it actually has any effect.
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"Designed to be countered by being found" which usually happens within the first 30 seconds of my matches, everyone seems to know all the totem spots in my MMR bracket. So I just bring meta perks such as corrupt, pain res, grim, etc. which gives me a way high win rate than any hex build. And now these same survivors are crying that it takes too long. 🤔
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This counts for the both of you: Hexes are supposed to be balanced by the fact that you can lose them. If you remove that, the perks become broken. Yes, there's something to be said for bad totem spawn logic, but that's no reason to leave things in a state that's just broken in the other direction.
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Really it would be fixed if totem cleansing worked like invocation, where if you aren't on the totem it decreases slowly, that way if you only get slightly interrupted, by like a scream it doesn't start it over completely, but if a killer comes and stops you by chasing you away then it regresses further, but requires the killer to actually invest time to keep you off the totem. I feel like that would probably balance this much better. But knowing BHVR they'll just nerf thrill to be useless again making everyone go back to 4 slowdown perks.
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The only hex worth it is devour. Ruin is horrible. Regression is 1/4th the rate of survivor Progression. Meaning that for ruin to regress an entire gen, it would take 360 seconds, not 90 seconds. The regression you get from ruin is very little. Even if survivors are off the gen for a full minute, they only need to hop back on for 15 seconds to counteract the ruin effect.
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Nice to see others finally enjoy my thrill+face the Darkness combo that I've been running for 2 years
I find it surprising that thrills numbers changed at all tbh it seemed a tad unnecessary even by my evil Pinhead standards
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But you can lose the hexs, albeit very difficult but it is possible. If anything it's an issue with face the darkness or totem cleansing mechanics. But thrill perk buff is great and pretty balanced imo especially as totems don't prevent gens from being completed. It's about balancing time better, work out if it's worth spending time to deal with hex or just concentrate on gens. This will differ on the situation, killer, map ect.
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Is this the new thing survivors are complaining about? Really? Hexes?????
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The change to a single perk, with no testing on the ptb, or even mention in patch notes, until it was going live is being complained about yes.
Especially since that one change results in cleansing totems taking 46.666 seconds now instead of 14 without that one perk.
It's over the top, broken, and feels like it was an afterthought. And the devs have said nothing on the issue either, so it feels kind of like a big middle finger to survivors with the new meta that everyone seems to understand why it exists, yet the forums is just incessantly gaslighting into thinking that complaining about it is somehow not justified. Like your post, for example.
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If you have more than one totem then more than an entire gen did not get repaired. How many Pain Resses is that?
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Ruin only regressed the gen at 1/4 the rate of repair speeds? Good. Could you imagine if killers could regress gens faster than survivors could repair them?
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Shoulder the burden is the lucky thing to complain about atm killer side, and Thrill is the complaint of the month for survivors.
Survivors are saying Thrill is over tuned, killers are saying its the interactions with thrill, not thrill itself.
Either BHVR retweaks Thrill to be useless again, as that's the only way they know how to fix perks, or they remove certain interactions.
I will let you guess how BHVR handles those situations too: The same as water does, with the path of least resistance.
Hexes in general are terribly designed in a game like this posing as a good PVP game. Its still a party game and BHVR doesn't seem to be wanting to change that. Unbalanced things like this will continue to come around. Im really not surprised. I just dislike the players are the ones who have to suffer through their inability to create a functioning game.
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the philosophy of killer getting value out of perks → imbalanced suggests that a hex that is not an empty perk slot is unfair. this can be applied to all perks but for the purposes of this thread, we will stay on topic within hexes.
Hex:ruin is weak enough that the perk could be a basic mechanic where the totem is unclensable and experienced teams would still be able to escape. i have played games as killer where the totem stayed up the entire game and I still lost because the team focused gen and optimized the chase well enough to complete them. As for devour hope, i don't have much experience as killer where my devour hope stayed up and i lose but when playing survivor, there have many games in my experience that my soloq survivor team is efficient enough at generators to finish all 5 gens before devour hope triggers. if it does trigger, it is often in the end game. I know this sounds impossible or the classic "Killer played bad so you won" statement but i have fairely high consistency in being able to pull this off in soloq. Sure it is riskier
Don't need to defend gens if survivors are stuck on totems.
survivor don't need focus totems to defeat totems. It is not like these totems are impossible to cleanse either, just that they are not a given to cleanse every match like they typically are. you focus gens before totems when killer commits to totem defending and you can pressure to killer move away from chasing by baiting totem cleansing while doing gens in the background.
Like the comparison is when survivors finish 80% gen and killer begins hovering and camping around that gen. if you have 1 survivor pressure the completion of that gen, other survivor can go to other gens and soft-complete progression on other gens because the killer isn't applying kill pressure and is choosing to camp the gen. the logic can be applied to totems.
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With all due respect, if you don't understand why it is completely broken then you really don't understand DBD. Otz showed just how broken it really is in his most recent video, it should be kill-switched until it has been fixed as it is completely game breaking with the right killer and perk combo and it isn't exactly rocket science to create a completely unwinnable scenario for survivors.
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I'm 80% killer player and I say this perk is busted and needs to be nerfed.
A change like this should not have been pushed live without any testing beforehand.
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Good to see some level headed
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A majority of players in dbd enjoy to win as fast as possible with as little effort as possible. Of course they defend something that enables them to do exactly that.
Broken or busted toys have been around since this game came out. There are always people that WILL defend something completely overtuned.
Eruption, dh, coh, thrill... the list goes on...
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Thrill of the Hunt is broken on specific killers. For most killers, it's fine.
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I really don't understand why BHVR seems to have a recent obsession of buffing every perk imaginable to make them meta. The reality is (in my opinion) with so many perks, some simply have to be little more than meme perks with only niche value at best.
We have all seen how different metas have become a nightmare for the game and changes have had to be made for the health of the game. So making 100+ perks meta in their own right is a recipe for a multi meta nightmare.
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i suspect that the perk was tested internally extensively but was not put on PTB because controversial strength that it has. If this was put on PTB, everyone would red flag saying the perk is too strong and needs to be immediately reverted before ever reaching live servers. I like the perk because it encourages killer to use d Expose perks(Devour hope) to win over standard game-delay perks you are all accustomed by now. there is some game-delay component to totems but that is somewhat inevitable when talking about totems.
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the philosophy of killer getting value out of perks → imbalanced suggests that a hex that is not an empty perk slot is unfair.
There is a vast gulf between 'Hexes should start the game cleansed' and 'Hexes should be completely impossible to cleanse'.
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The backlash you describe would have been absolutely justified.
Devour hope is not supposed to be up indefinitely. A good amount of killers and perks can make it almost impossible to cleanse the perk. If stacked in a complete hex build, it becomes way too overtuned.
People here are not complaining about thrill + devour.
They are complaining about:
- Thrill
- Devour
- Hex perk of your choice
- Pentimento
Even with old thrill a build like this offered a very good amount of game delay because devour can't be ignored by any means just like pentimento.
Its too much with new thrill.
I like variety in builds and I very much like hex builds. My second favourite killer perk in dbd is huntress lullaby. This is not how these builds should be buffed.
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This is not how these builds should be buffed.
Provides no follow-up.
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To be fair, highlighting a problem doesn't necessarily require a solution to be provided. There have been suggestions and topics for years on how to make hex perks more effective/less spawn RNG reliant, including but not limited to: -
- Improving map spawn locations for hexes on a number of maps.
- Allowing the killer to place a hex by choosing a totem to activate with each hex (either by walking to it, or better yet remotely)
- Removing the glow effect if over a certain radius from the hex.
- Not having the bones gain the hex glow until the Hex is activated/gains a token for the first time.
- Taking the Japan ruleset and blocking all hex totems until the first generator is completed.
I think it's fair to say buffing cleanse time is probably the least interesting of all of these.
The issue I see with it is, even if we take the stance TotH makes hexes balanced (which it doesn't when you see all the horrible builds that are popping up on various killers such as Singularity, but we'll assume it does), that would make it the case that Thrill of Hunt makes totems viable by pushing cleanse times to over 3 times their base cleanse speed.
This makes the perk mandatory for hexes to be viable, and without hexes are still not viable…. which is still ass from a design perspective.
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This makes the perk mandatory for hexes to be viable, and without hexes are still not viable…. which is still ass from a design perspective.
why? the killer commits to a particular perk archetype and expects to get decent rewards from the archetype. Radianthero and Firellius are telling me that when you commit to this archetype, your should still have poor reward where survivor is entirely in control for your perks being relevant.
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I just find it baffling. In most other games, the entire community will start to complain unanimously if something is blatantly unbalanced, but because dbd promotes an "us vs them" mentality, there are players that genuinely try to defend obviously broken stuff simply because it benefits their preferred side. It's insane.
Post edited by Hex_Ignored on5 -
Hexes are perks with powerful effects that can be removed. That is the high risk / high rewards aspect they are designed around.
Current Thrill eliminates the risk, because you either can't cleanse the totems or you are forced to spent an unreasonably long amount of time doing so. It isn't balanced.
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Radianthero and Firellius are telling me that when you commit to this archetype, your should still have poor reward where survivor is entirely in control for your perks being relevant.
That's not what I've been saying at all! I've only said that the current situation is not okay. I've never been opposed to hexes getting buffed in a normal, fair way. Making a busted hex-defense perk that can make it physically impossible to cleanse hexes without Counterforce is just not it, also because, as mentioned, it makes that defense perk mandatory.
I actually did make suggestions about buffing hex perks a long time ago. You need to be more mindful of what I'm actually saying, because you're projecting a strawman onto me.
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You almost never do that either.
How can you buff hexes?
- Rework devour. It only activates (becomes cleansable) after 3 stacks. Devour can only get 3 stacks
- Buff / rework useless hexes like huntress lullaby
- Create more totem locations, so that totem spawns are more unpredictable.
- Make totems not cleansable in the first minute of the game.
- Rework ruin : 200% regression, disables after a survivor is dead.
These are just a few ideas.
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the dev did something similar to what i wanted for hex builds. in my opinion, removing hexes is too easy and too time efficient for survivor. what i suggested was adding an extra life for undying to re-kindle itself. they buffed thrill of the hunt instead which resulted in survivors being less time efficient in for removing hexes.
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Pls dont put words in my mouth without tagging me. Thx.
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Asks for ideas. Continues to ignore them.
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I am responding to your first comment.
"You almost never do that either."
- Devour hope likely does not need rework, Maybe an increase of stack by 1 for the mori but i think it is fine as is.
- Part of reason why other perks fail to have much reward is because they're too fragile. I don't think hexes perk need more reward overall, maybe Hex:Retribution, Hex:Haunted grounds and Hex:Crowd control could use buffs but not urgent.
- Many of the maps have been touched upon or reworked. Hex totems remained weak despite said changes.
- Already exists in the form of hex:undying. Often the perk will at very least protect your totem if it spawns badly/gets cleansed early.
- I'd prefer base regression being increased over ruin being plaster fix to poor over-time regression.
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1.) I dislike, that devour can do absolutely nothing when it gets found before it reaches 3 stacks. The mori feels outdated at this point and is literally just overkill. Tone down the overkill mori and make it more consistent. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
2.) Hexes are supposed to be high risk high reward. Perks like devour showcase that. They are supposed to be fragile. A lot of the hexes have the high risk but low reward. Therefore increase the reward to warrant the risk.
3.) More totem spawn locations means more time survivors have top run around looking for themn because the spot are not that obvious. Some spawns are downright laughable. Swamp spawns are either in plain sight or on the edges of the map.
4.) I want a basekit version. Using a specific perk to make it not gone before I can physically be there is not good design. Survivors can spot the totem and memorize the location but I want killers to have a fighting chance to defend it at least at the start of the match.
5.) Ruin is a hex. Can we stay at discussing them and not base regression?
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Calm Spirit?
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If TotH reduces your interaction speed by 70% and Calm Spirit increases that penalty by 30%, do you actually get -100% interaction speed, thus rendering the interaction impossible?
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How a game plays out when the killer runs Ruin Devour TOTH + FTD/Undying. People hop on a few gens → see killer is 99% using the new cheese build → get off gens because devour will end the game instantly → ruin regresses all gens → spend minutes of gen time cleansing → killer has 6-8 hooks by the time you cleanse or they get devour and you insta lose.
The only hex worth it is devour. Ruin is horrible. Regression is 1/4th the rate of survivor Progression. Meaning that for ruin to regress an entire gen, it would take 360 seconds, not 90 seconds. The regression you get from ruin is very little. Even if survivors are off the gen for a full minute, they only need to hop back on for 15 seconds to counteract the ruin effect.
VERY WRONG it might be niche on some of the killers but if you have any type of mobility/quick chases ruin is insanely strong
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no. it is multiplicative of the 70%. it is like 79%-79.5% decrease to cleansing speed.
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Oh, okay, so it merely increases the cleanse time to 66.7 seconds.
Would've been an absolute BHVR moment if it did stack additively though.
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I ain't reading all these comments, but I will say this. Hex: Thrill of the Hunt should be nerfed, simply because it is genuinely impossible against The Singularity. Kind of like why aura reading perks have to be balanced around The Nurse. Still, kind of bummed that Hex: Thrill of the Hunt can't be strong. Like it's finally worth running but the only time it's worth running is when it is busted. A shame really.
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The only Hex you need to worry about is Devour Hope, the rest can be perfectly ignored. And without a decent antigen, the game will most likely end before Devour Hope even gets the necessary tokens. This build is only working for the same reason that Pentimento works, people waste time pointlesly cleansing totems.
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Instead of nerfing Hex: Thrill of the Hunt, what if Counterforce was buffed instead?
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