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Is Shoulder the Burden really bad for Killers?
Comments
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Seeing as you're not going to change your mind on this objectively terrible perk, let me put it to you in the most simple of terms
Shoulder The Burden costs you hook state to activate, not a health state, a HOOK state, those things that you only get 2 of before you die
In the absolute best case scenario, you activate this perk on a teammate, and both of you live
Worst case scenario you activate the perk, die because of the Exposed, and then your teammate dies less then a minute later anyway because they're bad at the game
In the majority of cases, you activate the perk, and then the killer either now chases you because you've given up a hook state to save someone else, the person you saved dies 3 minutes later anyway leaving you a hook state closer to death, or absolutely nothing of note happens because the killer wasn't going to try and force the person you saved to second-stage anyway, meaning you accomplished absolutely nothing but getting yourself closer to death just to keep someone in the game for a little bit longer
And this is of course not going into how this perk can be used to grief lobbies, such as letting someone kill themselves on hook sooner, or saving someone who wants to go next and then watching as they run to the killer and let themselves get downed anyway, leaving you with nothing.
This perk is #########, it is not some new meta-defining godsend, it's just bad and will be forgotten about in less then a month.
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I think if you're stupid enough to not wait until the Killer is well out of range to go for a save when you have this perk, you kind of deserve the Killer coming back to the hook to merk your silly ass. XD You're EXPOSED, you SCREAM when you take the hook stage away, if you're really not planning ahead using this perk of course the Killer will use it to their advantage.
Some Killers also counter this perk by being fast or ranged. Nurse, Billy, Blight, Huntress, Slinger, and Xeno can all get back to hooks fast making this perk really not great to use against them. Stealth Killers are also dangerous too, someone like Ghostface, Pig, or a Tier I/stealth build Myers could be expecting you to do this and may be close to the hook banking up stalk, in crouch, etc. and waiting to slap you for a free Kill. Yes, you can loop them and run chase, but you still are Exposed and all it takes is you screwing up once. And even the best Survivor can screw up chase.
I really don't know who is seriously taking this perk besides four man "never hook me never catch me" SWFs who sabo and Boil Over and StB and stuff to mess with the Killer. I'm not playing for a bit right now, on a break, but it can't be that common a pick, right?
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Even if they are, it just means now two people each have one hookstage, and are both closer to death. I'd rather not have an extra hookstage and be more vulnerable if I can help it. It really is just meant for someone to bring it to protect a friend being tunnelled.
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Shoulder The Burden costs you hook state to activate, not a health state, a HOOK state, those things that you only get 2 of before you die
taking a hook state of a weaker teammate as someone with better chase skills is a huge benefit, you'll learn it once you actually use the perk properly.
In the absolute best case scenario, you activate this perk on a teammate, and both of you live
in the absolute best scenario in soloQ, you will make teammate that is bad in chase useful for killing killer's hook pressure and you will waste awfully lots of killer's time.
Worst case scenario you activate the perk, die because of the Exposed, and then your teammate dies less then a minute later anyway because they're bad at the game
worst case scenario: you literally unhook the survivor in front of the killer and end up trading hook and doing literally nothing (your own mistake).
In the majority of cases, you activate the perk, and then the killer either now chases you because you've given up a hook state to save someone else, the person you saved dies 3 minutes later anyway leaving you a hook state closer to death, or absolutely nothing of note happens because the killer wasn't going to try and force the person you saved to second-stage anyway, meaning you accomplished absolutely nothing but getting yourself closer to death just to keep someone in the game for a little bit longer
killer chases you - wastes a lot of time
killer hooks that survivor again - they have to burn through additional hook state all over again.
1min of wasted killer's time is 1min of a gen progress per survivor. 3 minutes you mentioned are 2 whole gens IF one survivor only is repairing them.
And this is of course not going into how this perk can be used to grief lobbies, such as letting someone kill themselves on hook sooner, or saving someone who wants to go next and then watching as they run to the killer and let themselves get downed anyway, leaving you with nothing.
this is completely playerside fault lol.
This perk is #########, it is not some new meta-defining godsend, it's just bad and will be forgotten about in less then a month.
yeah, every meta perk is crap because average player just doesn't know how to use those
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Can I ask, I don't necessarily disagree with you overall, but you keep saying this perk kills a player's hook pressure- what do you mean by that?
I'm not sure how this perk could even affect hook pressure, so I'm curious what you're referring to.
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capability to force survs to go for unhook and thus be off gens/important zones on the map by having their teammate hooked at strategic position and trying to force any remaining surv off the gen and eventually get another gen. This is already negatively affected by perks like Deliverance/Wicked and Reassurance + basekit hook timers AND indirectly huge potential of off-hook perks that let you waste even more of the killer's time.
How does StB affect hook pressure? There are couple of ways to do it:
- use StB on a weak survivor to basically make them useful as hook meat and greed them on hook as long as possible (since they will actually last longer on hook than in chase lol)
- survivor on death hook (no matter tunneling or not) magically isn't on death hook anymore
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You still have to run up to a hook to use StB, though, right? I'm pretty sure you have to be literally as close as you would be for a normal unhook when you use that perk.
That means your hook pressure is unchanged. They're still dragged off a generator, they still have to go all the way up to the hook to save their teammate, you're still off occupying a third survivor with the same effectiveness as without the perk. Nothing's actually changed there.
The space that StB is actually useful, outside of tunnelling anyways, is for maintaining the 1v4 for a little longer. It doesn't actually affect your hook pressure in that 1v4.
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The problem with the logic in your first sentence is the perk is supposed to help against tunnelling. How many tunnellers do you see that don't also proxy camp and return to the hook as fast as possible? That's part of why this is such a bad perk. I don't know how BHVR defines tunnelling but the definition I use pretty much implies the Killer is also going to proxy camp by definition.
So, if a Survivor should be merked for using this when a Killer is near, and a tunnelling Killer will, by definition, by near, when is a Survivor supposed to use this perk and get enough value from it that it's actually worth running?
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So use Babysitter, WGLF, or something else if you're this paranoid about preventing a strategy the devs said is valid gameplay, but don't expect the Killer to be happy with you and also it won't win you rounds against any Killer who spreads hooks.
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How does any of that relate to STB being a bad perk and your logic being flawed?
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i haven't noticed a significant difference in my games when this perk comes into play, no. i've seen STB prove beneficial for survivors when they're preventing a teammate from dying early, or prioritizing a survivor with a stronger build in a SWF.
i believe the perk is fine. i also believe that parts of the community may have just gotten a little too concerned about the "transferring hook states" aspect. it doesn't really change much of the game if you understand how to manage your survivors.
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Objective opinion that "my logic is flawed" is objective.
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Depends who you are facing. If it's a average solo que team this shouldn't change much to be honest. If it's a SWF trying hard to win it basically means you can literally do nothing to win anymore, depending on how it's used because as survivor teams become stronger and better at gens the need to tunnel increases and this perk can in the right circumstances stop that single handedly.
TLDR: In 95% of your games it won't do much, in the 5% it does do something you go from most likely losing to guaranteed to lose. This is the strongest perk for survivors and nothing else even comes close but it requires good communication and teamwork to get it's full value, high skill floor high skill ceiling (teamwork) perk.1 -
The Problem is, that as the Killer you normalen ignore one survivor cause you dont have the time and luxury to two everyone. The perk steals the Killers time, which they dont have and can effort. Also its rlly good in 4 mans and can completly kill a round for the Killer mostly the weaker ones
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Problrm here is that its only effective for killers who are proxy camping the hook. It punishes nice killers who entirely leave the hook and allowing for safe unhooks since they are never near enough to the hook to take advantage of the exposed hit. In other words, it rewards proxy camping and punishes not proxy camping.
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It can be for killers who like to tunnel out one player for sure but I found I have had limited success with it.
Also, it seems to be a case of Deliverance curse strikes again, where whenever I run the perk I am first found and often the first one they attempt to tunnel out.
I did get value a couple of times but I found that giving a hook state to some survivors really doesn't help that much when they go down again pretty much instantly anyway.
In a coordinated SWF it would absolutely have value and I can't see it being permitted in comp DBD but for solo queue my results were mixed and I went back to running Resurgence and We'll Make It instead, as I found I got more value out of that combo in solo queue.
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