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Adding insult to injury

Every DbD game I've played over the last few days has ended with the killer killing the last survivor by his/her own hand. This is in the absence of a mori offering or a related perk. I can only surmise therefore, that a new mechanic has been added to allow every killer the ability to kill the last survivor by their own hand. The three biggest issues that most OG players have with this game are camping, tunnelling and the toxic sweats that engage in these. I have read numerous posts on these forums about it, the surveys issued by the devs all draw attention to it, and the Microsoft store reviews are back to back complaints about it. Yet to spite all this, the dev team has literally come up with a mechanic that encourages all three! I have honestly cringed watching toxic plebs twitch with anticipation of ruining yet another game by camping and tunnelling just to take advantage of this rediculous addition. The devs have genuinely done the exact opposite of what so many players have practically begged them to stop. Unbelievable!

Comments

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,289

    First let me say I agree, I agree that its bad the ways the Killer can force an unstable game into a 4K. Some of those ways are certainly NOT entertaining for all players involved, when the last person is slugged.

    However now lets consider the benefits, what if the fact that the Killer gets a lil carrot for a 4K is helpful for balance, because it weeds out friendly Killers or Killers who COULD go that extra distance for the Kill but choses to not? Letting Killers be true bastards has REALLY increased the talk about other helpful systems which the game desperately requires.

    I am not saying bHVR is playing 4D Chess, but thinking they did all this without a plan or this being a surprise to them seems odd to me.

  • Vishlumbra
    Vishlumbra Member Posts: 222

    One idea could be introducing a 'friendship' style Mori, where if the game is already lost, the last two survivors could agree to concede the win to the killer, triggering a unique, collaborative finisher. Personally, I view the finishing Mori as Dead by Daylight’s version of a ‘fatality.’ I love its inclusion—it’s a stylish and satisfying conclusion to the match. Whether I’m playing killer or survivor, I think having a cool finisher adds to the game’s charm and intensity.

    Also like, showing "mercy" could provide an extra benefit to the killer. Like some Bloodpoints or whatever.

  • smurf
    smurf Member Posts: 497

    I've begun to feel this way about the new mechanic too. It feels like the killer is doing a victory dance to show off after they get all the survivors; almost like an official version of teabagging at the gate.

    And as you and others have said, they hid the finisher mori behind a 4k, which encourages getting a 4k without caring what means are used to do it. And a lot of people reported increased incidence of tunneling and slugging for 4k in the time following the update. I don't know if the incidence rate of tunneling stayed up, but I do now dread every time a slug for 4k comes around. In the past, I'd just get annoyed by it, but these days I'm finding the combination of that plus the finisher mori just really makes the end of the match feel super toxic.

    Beyond that, the finisher mori enables the killer to bypass any chance at the last survivor wiggling off and making a last-second escape. And since certain perks make that more feasible, this is providing a basekit ability to deny players the benefit of their perks. So we get all these negative impacts in exchange for animations that add almost nothing positive to the game.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,959

    Killers tunneled and camped before it was added, and they would continue to tunnel and camp if it was taken away. Blaming the mori is just a scapegoat.

  • Skillfulstone
    Skillfulstone Member Posts: 801

    Did it create slugging, tunnelling and camping? Absolutely not, those existed since day 1 and were far more uncounterable before.

    Did it make it worse? It made slugging worse, more specifically slugging for the 4k, but it's impact on tunnelling and camping has been very negligible. While seeing a cool cutscene can motivate players to play more aggressively in order to see it, regardless of how boring the method is, most of the time the real difference will be seen in endgame.

    The Finisher Mori could be tweaked into something healthy though.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,979

    I've been wanting a "mercy" option for a LONG time. I almost always give last hatch. If the survivors had a rough match, I often let the last two go.

  • Sigmalarity_Main
    Sigmalarity_Main Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3

    I'm not a fan of toxic behavior at all, but I find it funny that survivors that love t-bagging at the exit gate are now getting a taste of their own medicine, lmao.

  • smurf
    smurf Member Posts: 497

    This is perhaps the only rational post I've seen defending the finisher mori. Personally, I've grown to dislike it more and more over time. Either way though, thanks for putting together a coherent post about it :D

    I'd also like to add that the finisher mori gives a basekit ability that denies any chance at wiggling off for an endgame escape. And although people say that's rare, I managed it in a match a few days ago, but only because my last teammate hit all their skill checks on hook. I was crawling to the exit and the killer needed to mori because my team and I got us to a state where she couldn't get me to a hook. But that escape would have been impossible if my teammate weren't hitting every check. Killer picked me up right before I got out, so I wiggled off and escaped just seconds before my teammate's second hook state ran out. I've definitely also spectated matches that could have been similarly close depending on perks. So I don't want to say those situations are common, but they make some of the most memorable escapes and can now just be denied most of the time as a basekit ability (though not in the one example I just gave).

    And while I see the finisher mori as much more negative than positive, I just wanted to say thanks for writing a decent post on the topic!

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,494

    Cheers muchly! ^^

    I will admit that I do feel like the Finisher Mori isn't at the best place it could be, I would hope that a lot of the negative aspects people find with it could be smoothed over to make it a cool thing for everyone (within reason ofc… anyone who hate's mori's in general probably can't be convinced) xD

    Wow, that's one nutty save… Gz! 🤣

    I do feel like the Finisher Mori is fine itself… its the circumstances it comes about I believe that is usually the problem… and why people have issue with it.

    A Silly Suggestion

    If we wanted to hard deal with 4k slugging, one method would be to have it where the Entity plays one final game to maximise the hope for the survivor and test their killer with a final hunt.

    When the third survivor dies or begins being sacrificed to the Entity:

    • If the final survivor is greater than 32m from the killer, the killer gains Killer Instinct on that survivor for 6 seconds.
    • If the final survivor is in the dying state, they gain the ability to pick themselves up a single time out of the dying state.
    • If the killer closes the hatch and the survivor is greater that 32 m from the killer, the killer gains Killer Instinct on the final survivor for 6 seconds.

    Also I'd make a general change to allow slugged survivors to swap items on the floor and in chests while in the dying state… just so if you can go looking for a key while you're slugged. Also remove hatch offerings for survivor side.

    This means that the survivor always has a chance to escape… but also has a harder time evading the killer, especially if the killer hooked the final player, as they'll get all the time it takes for the Entity to sacrifice the survivor to move across the map and search for a survivor far away before hatch spawns.

    No killer I know actually enjoys slugging for the 4k if they need an adept or a challenge, it's more just necessary cause it's otherwise a total crap shoot, and looking for a slug after you've slugged them in itself is annoying…. At least with this version, we're pointed right at the survivor, and it's a more exciting game affot where we genuinely have a final chase to try and close the match out, instead we're not walking around blindly like a jerk looking for the hatch, and then trying to spot a scratch mark at an exit gate.

  • SidneysBane1996
    SidneysBane1996 Member Posts: 878

    I have a fix for you:

    The Killer can now Mori ONE person on death hook per round, regardless of if they're the last one or not.

    There, now you can't slug for a 4k and you don't have to worry about this being a problem.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 3,494

    But... people still slug for the 4k regardless... 🤨

    The Finisher Mori makes almost no difference on the slug for the 4k. It's the boogeyman, people are blaming it incorrectly for an inherent problem of the games rules.

  • buggybug
    buggybug Member Posts: 485

    They should put the 2 hook rule to it but I rather it be removed. I lol all these killers acting as if we do not know camping,slugging and tunneling aint a thing befire finisher mori, the point is slugging has increased 100000 folder.

    Always trying to use survivor t bag excuse is so stupid because you can progress the game by whacking them out which also give you bp. A slugged person cannot do anything and unbreakable and expo niche and garbage uses is a poor excuse of a solution.

  • SidneysBane1996
    SidneysBane1996 Member Posts: 878

    How has it increased at all if it's always been a thing? I don't think people want the Finisher that bad, it's just a faster way to end the round…

  • smurf
    smurf Member Posts: 497

    I think the idea of having a sort of final showdown would satisfy the people who dislike the RNG nature of hatch. Personally, I think hatch is fairly balanced since it's somewhat killer sided for M1 killers, and extremely killer sided for killers like Blight. But to satisfy others:

    My feeling is that if all other survivors have been sacrificed, the last survivor kind of needs a reason to play out the end of the match. If there's no realistic chance of escape, why even bother? So they should have a feasible means of escape that works for them a decent fraction of the time.

    To take away the RNG nature of hatch, making a sort of skill-based hunt-like interaction would work. Some people have proposed something like a chase for this kind of scenario, but I think newer survivors would essentially never escape those situations. What you propose is I think a good start toward a compromise. Giving killer instinct could enable a sort of dramatic hunt where chase or stealth would work, and having both options could work for newer and more experienced players.

    Hatch is generally meant to avoid long drawn-out hunts at the endgame and give the last survivor a fighting chance so they have a reason to play it out. And honestly, it does both those things very well except against high mobility killers. So a final hunt would also need to be balanced carefully to be a little killer-sided across all MMRs, but not dramatically so. But I think your suggestion of including killer instinct in the endgame could make the hunt more engaging if balanced carefully.

  • buggybug
    buggybug Member Posts: 485
    edited December 8

    Yes it has been a thing always but it has gotten worst because it was more like a 50 50 whether the killer does hook the third or not before finisher mori came. This finisher mori update every match always now is third survivor slugged for the 4k to see the stale out of date mori.