Unbreakable shouldnt be basekit

Nope, it should be basekit, I'm tired of being be downed and doing nothing most boring thing in this game when you are not playing the game!

If a match reaches a point where a Survivor could use basekit Unbreakable (e.g., a 4-man slug scenario or prolonged slugging for 2–3 minutes), it would merely extend the inevitable and unnecessarily drag out an already lost match. The real solution to slugging is to avoid being slugged as a team in the first place. Once multiple Survivors are down, the killer's pressure becomes so overwhelming that basekit Unbreakable wouldn’t turn the game around.

For instance, imagine Survivors could get up after two minutes of being on the ground if others are already downed. What would that achieve? Those two minutes were spent doing nothing, while the killer used that time to deplete Survivors’ resources. Any attempts at winning after that point would likely be futile unless in a highly coordinated comp setting

The harsh truth is that, in most cases, being slugged is the Survivor team's fault. Another commenter pointed out a Wraith slugging from the start (a Wraith, a killer with no real chase power). How does a Wraith punish a team by slugging? The answer is simple: no one was skilled enough to loop him for any significant amount of time. Basekit Unbreakable or not, it wouldnt change a thing.

Even if basekit Unbreakable were added, it wouldn’t actually solve the core issue. You’d get up, realize there’s nothing left to work with, and lose anyway. At that point, people would shift their complaints to something else, anti-facecam, hook respawns, tunneling, etc. The reality is that even if the game were perfectly balanced, people would still find something to blame and vent their frustrations on.

I've never understood this argument about avoiding survivor perks, largely because a solid half at least are ones you can easily avoid even when you go for a hook, but reading this made something click for me for another reason it's a silly argument.

Let's say that slugging really picks up as a tactic, and a huge majority of killers start going for slugging straight away. Survivor's hook perks and anti-pickup perks no longer work!

…Why wouldn't they swap to anti-slug perks?

Unbreakable, Exponential, We're Gonna Live Forever, Buckle Up, Made For This, Soul Guard, Plot Twist, Tenacity, For The People, even No Mither all make slugging weaker.

The reason it looks like slugging is the best tactic to win right now is because fewer people expect it. If things shifted, people would just start bringing anti-slug perks, because a basic reality of this game is that your opponent is gonna have tools to respond to what you're doing, because it's a PvP game.

Spreading your hooks and pressure is more than enough to win if you're doing it properly, too, there's not much reason to buff it. Buffing individual hook perks could be appropriate, but only because some of them are kinda weak without considering anything about slugging and hooking in general.

Nope I wanna basekit, end of it! I don't wanna run perk that barely gives any value, it's unfun - empty perk slot

I'm not sure what statistics you're referring to here, I don't think we have access to those kind of stats, but I do think you're somewhat missing my point which is that the hook perks are only stronger when you play into them.

For example, DS is a very very powerful perk, when you're tunnelling. If you're not tunnelling, it doesn't do anything, and if you're not hooking at all then Unbreakable is obviously going to be considerably stronger because whatever you're hoping to get out of slugging is going to be completely undone by that one perk.

You compare Exponential to Deliverance but Unbreakable is the actual comparison there. The difference being, Deliverance has a requirement, a penalty, and can be denied through sheer luck by that survivor being hooked first. Unbreakable, though, just works, outright.

If the killer is actually going out of their way to aggressively slug, the anti-slug perks are as a class as powerful as the hook-related perks and considerably less avoidable. You don't ever have to worry about DS, Reassurance, Camaraderie, Babysitter, or Blood Rush if you don't want to because those require you to act in a very specific way to work. There's no way of slugging that avoids anti-slug perks, though.

Highlighting all the flashbangs and beamers is really funny when you have Lightborn on. They literally are wasted slots at that point.

What's wrong? You have to look at the question more broadly. I look at the potential of the survivors and prepare for all the tricks they are ready to give me. Unlike the survivors who have already asked for their totem nerf ;)

A less prepared killer would simply become a funny toy for the survivors. Some are too proud to take Lightborn. Calling it a useless perk slot. I am looking for practicality. I will take everything that can bring me victory. Unlike the survivors, I am used to adapting.

Although you tactfully kept silent about the flashbangs bug that was never fixed.

I didn't want a slug as Clown. For once I wanted to play hooks and these survivors came. It just happened that way. It was easier for me to wait for the last mori than to run around the map and look for the rest of the survivors. The survivors were strong enough in the chase to waste their friends' 4 minute timer.

I usually give everyone a hook even after a slug of 4 survivors. The only difference is that there are 4 of them instead of 12. When I play slug there is a build like Dredge where Knock Out is taken as the basis of the build.

In the case of Clown, one of the tests for hooks. I don't believe in slowdowns.

it isn't slugging as a strategy that should be punished, it's bleeding out that needs something as a counterweight to let people be able to at least bleed out faster or vote collective give up when in this situation

I'm not calling slugging useless, to be clear.

What I am saying is that if you decide to aggressively slug everyone instead of hooking them, and the survivors bring anti-slug tools, you're going to not get very much work done. Tactically slugging as a way to increase pressure while still fundamentally going for hooks can be a good decision depending on context.

The reason this doesn't seem the case now is because players don't tend to bring anti-slug perks. They do bring hook-based perks because hooks are a fundamental element of the game and they assume they or their teammates are going to get hooked in the same way they assume they'll have to repair generators and deal with chases. If people swapped to anti-slug perks as a rule, you'd find that slugging becomes significantly less powerful for winning you games on its own, that's my point.

You have to down and slug someone many times to bleed them out, if you aren't able to get everyone on the ground at once. You only have to hook people three times to kill them, and you get more from the act of hooking them too.

To address that last sentence specifically: The answer to that question is yes, if you are aggressively slugging. Anti-slug perks would be absolutely as oppressive to a killer playing in that way as DS and OTR are to a killer that's tunnelling, and easily infinitely more oppressive than those perks are to a killer that isn't tunnelling.

People on the forums complain and ask for nerfs. People in game, to an extent, do actually adapt.

Besides, do you want to take the risk of them adapting, or just hone your fundamentals so you can win without the shortcuts that tend to get nerfs and counter-pick perks designed around them?

I think it's likely slugging will get nerfed in some way because, to be fair, a lot of its counterplay does rest on perks, and that's not ideal. It's the state tunnelling and camping were in for a while, albeit not as bad because there is some basekit counterplay, so I think it's likely we'll get some adjustments to it. Best to learn how to adapt to that ahead of time, don't you think?

Yes. I'm ready to take a risk. Nothing in this game scares me anymore. So far, all the nerfs to the sad tactics of camping and tunneling make me a better player. True, not in the ways that a survivor would like to see. Many years have passed, and I'm still here, no matter how much all these nerfs try to drive me away. The only difference is that for the surviving side, with each such nerf, it gets worse and worse. I will never tire of repeating this jar of spiders in which the survivors locked themselves.

My principle is simple: I will find a way to kill a survivor. Another thing is that I would like 12 hooks, not a slug. The main key point is killing. Yes, I will be sad knowing that the surviving side is not having fun, but I will still take what is due to me. Therefore, as I said earlier, make it pleasant for the survivor to die (12 hooks and chases), otherwise the killers will look for alternative ways to kill you.

My prediction for the unannounced mori shop. If the killers show solvency at the level of Feng Min suits. I think slugging as a tactic will be safe. Otherwise, I don't see why they introduced basic mori into the game and some silence on the slug issue.

By all means, take any opportunity you see to earn a kill.

At the same time, though, I would suggest that you prepare to adapt again when the shortcut you're taking gets nerfed. It's up to you whether you want to try and excel with the fundamentals, or take whatever tactic seems strongest at the moment- just understand that unfairly strong shortcuts, or tactics that leave your opponents without much to do, are inevitably going to be changed.

The devs don't actually have to bend over backwards to make playing the fundamentals even stronger than the shortcuts, in a lot of cases they just need to nerf the shortcuts. People will eventually have to stick with the more conventional and skill-expressive elements of the game if the alternatives are just made worse.

Seriously, though, slug if you want, I'm not telling you not to as some kind of authority figure. I just recommend learning the fundamentals instead because you'll be a lot safer from nerfs that way.