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What is the counterplay for flashbang?
When a survivor falls on a pallet, you can see them on the pallet. Your counterplay was to stop them from going down there. Now your counterplay is try to body block or scare other survivors away.
When a survivor has a flashlight, you can see the flashlight. You saw it in the lobby. Your counterplay was to equip Lightborn. Now you have to pick up facing away or face a wall or scare people off.
When a survivor has the saboteur perk, you see them run to the hook and squat. Your counterplay is find another hook or drop the survivor and chase the saboteur.
When a survivor has flashbang, you have no idea. If someone hovers around they could be going for a bodyblock or about to try a sabotage. You either slug and chase them off some vague minimum distance or gamble a pick up. The stun happens during a locked animation and everyone gets distance. There isn't any foreknowledge nor any time to react. There's no counterplay.
Answers
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They are quite hard to get right from survivor side. When you pick they need to be extremely close to get the save so if you clear out a small area and know there arent survivors flash bangs wont be an issue.
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usually, the counterplay is general awareness of your surroundings and noting survivor habits. as @BritneyMitch said, distance is also key when using the perk. try to push for positions that force the survivor to have to travel further to get to you and discourage them by downing them in tiles rather than in open spaces if they're playing offensively.
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So assume they have flashbang and take time to scare them off some vague minimum distance?
For every down in every game? And hope they mess up otherwise?@BritneyMitch @Skittlesthehusky
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hi! sorry, i was not tagged so i didnt see your comment right away.
that is an option, or you could make a decision based off of the information that's available to you at that time of the down. you choose your own counterplay to the perk. 😊0 -
There is no counterplay beyond "predict they have it" and "hope they mess up"
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i disagree. there is actually quite a bit of counterplay!
you can:
a. play for positioning to decrease chances of successful flashbangs at pickup (not guaranteed because otherwise it will remove the purpose of the perk all together)
b. threaten and punish altruism, this can be done by slugging or increasing risk by applying damage or killer powers
c. lightborn, as you described
d. study survivor habits to prepare for when they plan to use it again. do they drop it in chase at 50/50s? do they prefer using it after pallet stuns? pick ups? how often do you find them on a generator?
e. try to force them to waste it through pressure in chase or bait drops
f. pressure generators to increase the time it takes for someone to obtain one
g. if you find the survivor that uses flashbangs frequently, just beat the bollocks out of them and get them on hook or kill them if you can! that's one less flashbang user to worry about
…list goes on
you're not going to be 100% correct all the time, this goes for all perks. you have to adjust based on the information you have. even i struggle against flashbangs occasionally, but it's not impossible to win if theyre heavily used :]1 -
I always 100% of the time run Lightborn. Otherwise, slugging is the answer. I am often of the belief that if survivors don't want to be hooked, then the nice thing to do is heed their wishes and not hook them.
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When a survivor falls on a pallet, you know to take these steps. You see them on the pallet. Your counterplay was to stop them from going down there. Now you can try to body block or scare people off.
When a survivor has a flashlight, you know to take these steps. You saw it in the lobby. You could've equipped Lightborn. Now you have to pick up facing away or face a wall or scare people offWhen a survivor has flashbang, you have no idea. The onus is on the killer to respect the possibility or gamble a pick up.
That is not counterplay. There's no information to counterplay.
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lets say you're playing a game of chess. the opponent places a threatening piece in a position you initially did not expect, and you adjust your pieces to better defend yourself against their plans later in the game. what would your reaction to their position then be called? it could be you being pressured, or this could be your own form of counterplay. either way, it's still a response from the person in the 'weaker' position, which is a counter by definition.
this same logic applies to flashbangs. you recognize a survivor (or multiple) has flashbangs after they used it in the match. your counterplay is to now discourage the usage and play around future use cases.
edit: i'm making an adjustment to my post to reflect your current one accurately.
i think we shall agree to disagree on the premise of our definitions being different from each other. my definition of counterplay is specific to how a player reacts to future engagements, either by prediction or by exposure to a pre-existing plan. primarily in an offensive or defensive manner.0 -
What is the counter to these repetitive topics? Lord jesus
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I've never posted here before. If this gets brought up frequently, that might be a sign.
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"you recognize a survivor (or multiple) has flashbangs after they used it in the match"
If you can read this sentence and not see the problem lol
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i indeed did read it! and i do not see an issue with what i've written nor the scenario i just described. perhaps we see the game differently from each other and that's perfectly fine with me.
as i don't think this is the proper subforum to continue this discussion, if you wish to further converse about this topic i'd be more than happy to chat with you about it in messages. it's an interesting topic to go over. o/
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Most perks and add-ons are unknown before their first use in a match.You see something come into play once and try to counter it thereafter.
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There are precious few ways to stun a killer and stop a pick up.
Flashlights and pallets have foreknowledge and thus counterplay.
Blast Mine is also free but mostly just wastes time.
Decisive Strike is active for 60 seconds to punish tunneling.
I'm not sure what else you could compare to Flashbang.0 -
I'm not sure what else you could compare to Flashbang.
I'd say Flashbang is like a survivor coming in with Sabo and/or Background Player.
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Background Player doesn't do anything on its own
You can see if someone has a toolbox0 -
Sabo, the perk. That plus Background Player is not telegraphed, you learn about it when they use it.
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You can either walk to another hook or drop the survivor in a downed state.
Flashbang happens during a pick up animation. They don't drop into a downed state. You're stunned.0 -
You were looking for a perk that's practically a 1:1 replica of what Flasbang does? There is none. You talked about stuff being "comparable" to Flashbang, while also mentioning Blast Mine, which has nothing to do with halting a pickup.
I was giving an example of something survivors can use when you go for a hook that you won't know about beforehand and may cost you the hook. If the sabo comes late enough, you may not be able to reach another hook and dropping the survivor may put them in the injured instead of the dying state. If the survivor gets off your shoulder after you've spent time trying to get to a hook, that costs you more time than losing the survivor in the original pickup animation. With original DS, many players agreed that the non-obsession survivors using it were more damaging because the amount of time the killer lost was much greater than the time lost when the obsession used it.
Anyway, the point of my original statement was that there are many perks and add-ons in the game on both sides that you don't know about until they come into play the first time. That's how a lot of things work in DbD. You can assume certain things are always in play and counter them from the start, or you can play like normal and counter something after it comes into play the first time. If you're not countering something before it comes into play, it's very likely to provide value the first time it's used, and then it's up to you to not let it get value again.
No, I'm not saying Flashbangs are okay, but the reason Flashbangs are not okay is because survivors can clip into the killer during pickup and drop it into their hitbox. I don't think it's fair, I don't know why it's still in the game, I think the devs should remove it, but I'm not a dev. It has nothing to do with not being able to see Flashbangs in lobbies. You can't see Residual Manifest in the lobby, either, but it means the survivor will definitely get a flashlight out of a chest, and that's faster than crafting a Flashbang.
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None of these counterarguments have withstood scrutiny. Your wordcount won't change that.
You're out of comparables now so you're filibustering.
Flashbang is anti-gameplay. They should fix it.0 -
Right, okay, talking to you has been confusing and there's no point in trying when you're dismissive, anyway. I can't tell if you misunderstood what I've said on purpose and were deliberately unclear to try to hide/move goalposts, or if you have trouble keeping your thoughts in order. I even specifically said that Flashbangs are not in an okay spot, because they operate in a broken manner. Walls should counter them but don't, and it's almost universally agreed upon that dropping it inside the killer's hitbox shouldn't be possible and the devs need to fix it. Plus, the audio is broken, because audio is always breaking in this game.
If you can't see nearby survivors' hands well enough to recognize a Flashbang or Winter Party Starter, slug everyone within a mile radius before picking someone up, just to be safe. That's what I do when I see anyone nearby when I down a survivor: I slug, because they could have Break Out, or if the survivor in the dying state has Boil Over any amount of body blocking will cost me the hook.
tldr: Yell at BHVR to fix this buggy game, and until then learn to enjoy slugging survivors.
Post edited by TragicSolitude on0 -
Just made a hag D/C by triggering traps and dropping firecrackers all match.
Love those winter chests and all of that counter play!0
