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Option to bleed out faster when?
IDK if it's just because there's an event that's supposed to be fun happening right now or what, but holy crap the toxic killers are out in force.
I've been slugged and snowman-humped to death multiple times. I have to just lie on the ground for four minutes while some dork gets their jollies trying to farm salt.
Don't make Unbreakable and trash Boon perks the only option to combat a full team slugging. Let us choose to bleed out like we can choose to let go on the hook.
Comments
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Should take it a step further and allow all players who queue up in solo-queue to quit with no penalty or points loss.
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First I would say, slugging itself is in-game intendet mechanic that is not an abuse or "toxic" in any way or form (unless you combine with like excessive tbagging, rude end-game chat, etc.). On its own, its like saying pallet looping is toxic because it can be effective. I am not a fan people calling such mechanics toxic.
Now to the point, I think some kind of give up option would be nice but it would have to be limited so someone don't just go down and leave the match for free in like 1 min.
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I think the question is how did the whole team get slugged to begin with? Usually it's because whole team tries to play toxic and team blind/body block the killer when they try hook. If they do that then it's fair game. But if people are spread out doing gens then the killer shouldn't really be able to slug the whole team.. unless the team refused to heal the slugs.
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I was just in a soloq match where the killer had us blind and was slugging everyone. Game is unplayable garbage for soloq most of the time imo.
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I have been asking for this for YEARS now - an option to 'concede' the match when it is clearly over. Making paying customers frequently endure bleeding out for 4 minutes while the killer hunts your hiding team mate for the 4k, or the (thankfully) less frequent scummy Blight/Nurse who will slug and bleed everyone out for 4 minutes should never be a thing you subject your customers to
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We need a die button when prone for more than 30 seconds cause yeah… waiting to bleed out because of some toxic sweat bot is really obnoxious.. and it happens more than I care it to… either that or unbreakable needs to be base kit so we can at least prevent 1 slug sesh… both would be nice honestly.
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WWorst Idea ever and quickest way to absolutely ruin the game. I swear noone thinks before they just start spewing ideas.
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Two were killed, my teammate got downed and slugged, then he came to me and downed me. Rather than hooking me, he got in a snowman and humped me until I bled out. Zero toxicity on our side.
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Slugging in general isn't my complaint here. It's the humping while I bleed out. I'm not sure how you missed the "humped to death" part of that sentence. Toxic crap. Let me go next without a penalty.
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To be fair killers have to endure t bagging at the gates forcing the killer to traverse the map to both exit gates to literally force survivors out or wait until egc ends. Why does the killer have to forcibly push people through the gate which when all are healed can take a fair amount of time to hit them all out. Some t bag after every pallet drop knowing the killer can't touch them. Survivors are ok doing it to killers repeatedly throughout the match so I don't see why killers can't do it back. In an ideal world survivors at the gate would just leave and go next and killers would just hook, get the kill and go next.
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Why did this come up every time being slugged until bleed out comes up?
Teabagging at the exit gate has several things base kit the killer can do. At worst, it's only 2 minutes, not 4. You can, base kit, force them out and possibly even mind game an extra kill or two. You can just ignore them and earn BP for two minutes around the map.
None of that is available to slugs. You can't earn BP, you can't ignore the killer if they're following your slug around throwing hatchet at you, or humping you. You can't turn the game around, and you have no measures available to speed up or shortcut the full 4 minutes of bleed out.
Not to mention that the teabagging scenario you describe requires all the survivors on the team to be coordinated in being toxic (a very small percentage of the player base). It only takes the one killer deciding to be a jerk to pull this off, which is far easier and also more common.
This kind of response is simply "bUt SoMeOnE ThInK oF tHe PoOr KiLlEr".
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I think the no point loss thing is a step too far but I am changing my mind on DC penalties, as we now have bots in the game and honestly sometimes the bots have been better than the person they replaced, I am dead serious.
The problem now is because people try to avoid the penalty, they just go next on hook so you're left with 3 survivors at 5 gens against a Blight or whatever, so you all may as well just go next at that point.
I think DC's would increase at first but I don't think most people want to leave matches, like any of us they play DBD because they want to play fun matches and not just leave every match because it doesn't go their way. You cant force people to stay in matches they don't want to and DC penalties are not stopping that at all, it just means they leave by other means so the team doesn't even get a bot to replace them.
If people want to slug and bleed out players, they should have to do that to 4 bots, not people who actually want to play a normal match too. I would think leaving matches like this is not an unreasonable thing, if it were possible
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Bleed-out slugging is absolutely not an intended mechanic and is toxic.
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Regardless, the killer gets ****** off with it so they bring their own justice... If survivors don't like it, don't *** off the killers lol
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It must be a mechanic because it exists in the game, there are perks designed around it and to counter it and it's not reportable. If it wasn't intended then the Devs would make it reportable or try to prevent it not actually encourage it but creating a Mori update and hatch. Both of which encourages slugging. The bleed out part is again intended so the game doesn't get prolonged indefinitely. Like it or not it is a part of the game and very likely will always be a part of the game.
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Hatch does not encourage slugging.
And I'm talking about bleed-out slugging, not slugging in general. Bleed-out slugging actually denies the killer points.
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never, because it’s a terrible idea that would further encourage slugging.
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I do not get this logic at all that asking for a surrender option will encourage more slugging and if it does then survivors then will just kamikaze on hook even more, keep destroying solo q then wonder why dbd soon will be swf by light.
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You’re honestly telling me, with the evidence the finisher mori has now provided us, you don’t see why allowing people to bleed out faster would further enable slugging? If you don’t then I feel you’re being wilfully ignorant. Slugging needs addressing, but providing the killer with yet more power for an easy win is not the way to do it. There are better solutions.
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This comes up all the time. But you can even compare those - Killers have an option to end the teabagging at the Exit Gate faster. Survivors dont have an option to speed up the Bleedout.
But in general, those two should not be compared, for the reasons already mentioned.
@Topic:
There will be either something which helps Survivors to pick themselves up when slugged for too long or a faster Bleedout. Something like this is bound to happen, because some people are just overdoing it currently. Nobody wants to spend 4 minutes on the ground without any possibility to do anything, this is just not good gamedesign. And it is also not the intended way to play the game, if someone is bleeding someone out, they are playing the game wrong, indicated by the fact that a Bleedout gives almost no points.
But we all know that if something happens, it is because of those survivor-sided Devs and not those Killers, who think it is their job to make the Survivor Side as miserable as possible.
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There is a certain cut-off point where killers have to admit that the thing ruining the game is themselves. There is no reason to slug for the 4K because a 3K is already a win and likely has you capped out on BP gains. Which means that 4th kill is entirely cosmetic. So I'm not going to hold the hatch accountable for what is a failure on the player's part.
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I think your the one being ignorant a surrender button if you do not get what it does, is the same as hitting the quit button except there no penalty for doing so as long as all survivors all hit it.
IDV has this option if a hunter wants to slug for 4k or everyone is down they all must press it and the game ends.
Also then if its a bad idea killers need to stop qq for the easy fix to this solution we been asking for, now say it with me, " base kit unbreakable " or make the perk itself has unlimited uses but with a 1 or 2 min cd to make it fair.
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Pretty much agree on all points.
I've been pushing for the "faster bleed out" option for years now. Unbreakable has too many issues base kit, mainly that it just perpetuates the "already lost game" scenario. There's also the issue that the "unbreakable base kit" they tried on the ptb had no conditions and was generally a bad idea for that reason. It also does nothing if the killer is camping a slug, you just go right back on the floor again.
Just make it so that once a survivor hits "find help" they can do something further to speed up the bleed out timer. Or, if all survivors are hooked, dead, or slugged (or even all but one), then they can just give up entirely and go next once they hit that point. I think giving the killer at least 30 seconds to pick up is more than generous in those extreme slugging cases.
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At what point did I say I don’t know what a surrender button does? I’m fully aware of what it does, I just completely disagree with the premise that it would be a healthy inclusion taking into account the potential (read: likely) ramifications that could have on already sweaty players. We should be discouraging disconnections and ways to keep players out the game and we should be encouraging a return to normal play. A ‘let me die quicker’ button would not achieve that and would be equal to suiciding on hook which is already a contentious issue.
I’ll repeat myself; there are better ways.
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They tried basekit unbreakable in the PTB, and it went about as well as everyone quessed. It was abused by survivors, heavily, by building entire builds and team strats around it. It was universally panned across the board. And thats why it didnt come to the game. Blame the PTB survivors for that one
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Not true at all, there is a much bigger bonus for killing all survivors not just 3. Regardless if you hold the hatch accountable or not it still gives incentive for killers like me to slug. You say 3k is a win why go for 4k but the hatch isn't a win, so why have it at all? All it does is give killers a reason to slug the 3rd survivor.
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Hatch IS a win for the survivor. It may not be for MMR, but that's not something that's even shown to the player. The game tells the survivor they won, and awards them a huge chunk of BP which they wouldn't otherwise get.
Not to mention that without the hatch, there'd be no reason to play it out, and the only option the survivor would be left with is trolling for time and hoping you can frustrate the killer into a disconnect.
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The scenario you mention where survivors troll for time hoping to make killer DC exists even with the hatch… it exists in 2 v 1. The reason it exists is because both survivors want the hatch they both hide indefinitely. Having the hatch makes no difference in this regard, just gives survivors more incentive to hide without touching gens earlier in the match which is a reportable offence.
If hatch is considered a win then a killer is faced with a choice, allow a survivor that has done nothing all match, hidden the whole time hoping for a hatch escape to win? Or slug the last 2 and get the 4k not permitting the win for a survivor that clearly shouldn't get a win for doing nothing?
Also you say it is win for a survivor even tho not for MMR... Well 3k isn't a win for killers in some killers eyes... just further gives reason to go for 4k if the killer doesn't feel like 3k is a win
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I don't think that is correct. Here is an example I can give:
This was shortly after the Halloween event.
Clearly no gen rushing there. All four of us were solo queue players, no one had a flashlight, no one tbagged, no one tried to bodyblock because the killer didn't try to hook anyone until all four were down. No one was downed under a pallet, and iirc, no one had the Flashbang perk.
There is nothing that explains this situation except for the killer choosing to slug, which is usually the only reason these games happen.
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Killers can choose to slug if they wish, it can be an effective method and the image shows the killer is picking a survivor up so likely to pick the rest up (if they can be found). It doesn't seem like that killer in the image is sluggish out of toxicity. My question remains tho, how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way? Why has no one healed any team mates? Not much difference to being hooked and no one going for the unhook. If killer was camping them then it gives 4min for others to do gens at least. From my experience if a whole team of 4 gets slugged like that it's skill issues on the survivor side.
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They can, for now. But they shouldn't. Its done without reason.
Imagine a different example: a player wants to insult everyone, his teammates and the killer, in the post-game chat. They can do that, of course. But should they? No, of course not.
how does a killer manage to slug a whole team in that way?
Hillbilly. One who knew how to play. Who definitely could have won without slugging.
Why has no one healed any team mates?
I tried to.
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The scenario you mention where survivors troll for time hoping to make killer DC exists even with the hatch… it exists in 2 v 1. The reason it exists is because both survivors want the hatch they both hide indefinitely. Having the hatch makes no difference in this regard, just gives survivors more incentive to hide without touching gens earlier in the match which is a reportable offence.
It makes a difference since a 2v1 is completely different from a 1v1. There's literally double the chance that you'll find someone. And yeah, it exists.
Maybe it would exist less if survivors couldn't be expected to spend four minutes slugged out to feed a killer's ego.
If hatch is considered a win then a killer is faced with a choice, allow a survivor that has done nothing all match, hidden the whole time hoping for a hatch escape to win?
If you're omniscient enough to know exactly how much each survivor contributed, you're omniscient enough to find them.
Also you say it is win for a survivor even tho not for MMR... Well 3k isn't a win for killers in some killers eyes... just further gives reason to go for 4k if the killer doesn't feel like 3k is a win
Which just feeds back into my earlier argument: This is a problem the killer has created for themselves.
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Any more killers go into a game thinking its a toxic squad and just start slugging. I play only soloq and this has happened more times than not. I had a Tiffany do this and go around a hump every single one of us too. No flashlights were used to harm Tiffany either. We had 4 gens left as well. Not every killer humps but it's starting and it really doesn't want you to que up anymore.
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TBF I hate going against billy lol I don't think your example applies here as insulting people in a chat provides nothing to the goal of the game. Slugging does as it's a method to win. Not a fun method for survivors granted but if it works it works.
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So then every match is just bots? Because thats how you get every match to just be bots.
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Oh ok so if the surrender button is not one of them and base kit ub then what is your better ways?
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Do you even play survivor? Because it doesn't seem so.
You keep coming in every thread like this, missing the point, and defending killers when that's not what anyone is talking about.
The complaint is not about tactical slugging or slugging vs. coordinated 4-man SWFs.
The complaint is about slugging in an ALREADY WON GAME being miserable for survivors who just want to leave the match.
Every soloQ player has experienced this at some point, even those who don't play survivor often.
Otzdarva literally mentioned it 2 days ago, and he's a killer main:
The clip below happened on Scott Jund & Zubat's stream last night, it made Zubat leave for the night.
Watch this, and explain me if this is tactically justified:
That's 2 streamers being stuck for 4 minutes, and more than 1000+ viewers being forced to watch this. It's ridiculous.
There is no reason for a person to be forced to wait up to FOUR MINUTES in a video game. Literally everyone knows this is an issue, except BHVR. Players have been asking for a "give up" button for years at this point, and it's baffling that it's still not there.
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People like are the same ######### who make these oh i made this streamer mad or this streamer is toxic videos trying to give the streamer bad names specially if they too are atreamers very pathetic it is.
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Tactically not justified in that clip but then neither is t bagging at the gate. Some killers are just not nice people like some survivors are not nice people... I personally wouldn't hump like that but I would slug and go round smashing left over pallets and doors for extra bp. Survivors can hide indefinitely in 2 v 1 situations... Why should a killer be forced into that situation? It is what it is, I have been slugged and I have ensured server end timer. Difference being that slugging isn't reportable as it does have a timer. I'm all for give up option. But it will lead to more slugging as killers would be pushing for people to give up instead of getting hooks or wait for bleed out. I know if survivors started to give up when slugged I would slug more lol.
Also being a survivor main for 2 years I do understand the pains of survivors especially in soloq. But I play killer too so I can see both sides, and more often than not survivors usually bring it on themselves.
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I guess I just don't understand why every time someone creates a topic like this showing a clear problem with a clear solution, you immediately jump to mention that survivors can be toxic.
Like yes we know survivors are toxic, the point of this topic is not to say that only killers are toxic, it is to ask BHVR to fix a basic problem in the game that has a very basic solution with almost no drawback.
The other problems you mention - survivors hiding indefinitely for hatch or tbagging indefinitely at the gates - are also problems, yes. No one denies it. Survivors hiding for the hatch does not have an obvious solution though, unlike toxic slugging, so that's why people argue with you. Not because they don't want the problem to be solved. Tbagging at the gate on the other hand has an easy solution imo which is to let the killer leave the match without penalty in endgame, if you want BHVR to implement that then go ahead and make your thread, I'll approve.
I'm all for give up option. But it will lead to more slugging as killers would be pushing for people to give up instead of getting hooks or wait for bleed out. I know if survivors started to give up when slugged I would slug more lol.
Now this is a really contradictory argument. Survivors HAVE a give up option, when you hook them. So by your logic it should to you hooking all the time instead of slugging? then why are here you are constantly defending slugging.
Besides, you say: if you could find a way to make survivors give up, then you would do it more, like what? What is the appeal of playing against AFK opponents? This is a multiplayer game, if no one wants to play with you, you should consider it a serious problem, not something to be proud of.
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It should have been the solution from the start, instead of that base-kit Unbreakable nonsense. But seeing all those players committing suicide on hook or disconnecting, they are probably afraid that it will turn into another way to avoid DC penalty and go next.
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Survivors can hide indefinitely in 2 v 1 situations... Why should a killer be forced into that situation?
The issue that I'm having here, is that survivors can't hide indefinitely. If a survivor isn't moving around enough they get crows and then it is much easier to locate them. If the survivors aren't getting crows it means they are actively moving around, and playing the game. Sure they might not be doing gens to escape but they are still playing. Now if the survivors are moving around enough to avoid getting crows it means they can slip up and get spotted in which case you are able to chase and, hopefully, down them.
Often times in post like these killers always tell the survivors if they don't want to get slugged they just need to waste perk slots for unbreakable, as if that one time use perk is going to do anything against a killer determined to slug anyway.
Killers have access to so many more perks to help you find survivors. Maybe just work some more aura reading into you build so you don't end up in a time wasting game of hide and seek.
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I bring up the fact survivors can be toxic too because there isn't anything that can be done to stop it. Can't force survivors to not t bag at the gate, can't force killers to not hump someone on the ground. It's something both sides have to deal with like or not. Survivors hiding for the hatch has a solution, remove the hatch removed the need to hide. Yes people can still hide but the hatch gives them a reason to do it other being toxic. Hooking does have a similar effect which survivors can and do suicide on hook. Happens often when I tunnel someone out right at the start. The goal is to win, if survivors admit defeat then it's time to move on to the next match and try again. Doesn't matter to me if they quit and get replaced by a bot, if they suicide on hook due to being tunneled or suicide by bleed out. But slugging would mean less time hooking someone so more chance they would give up quicker.
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Moving around isn't playing the game, if it was then survivors would be able to simply move around and still win. It's easy for a survivor to simply crouch and swap lockers to avoid crows. So without aura reading yes survivors can and do wait until server ends which is especially an issue in swf as people communicate where the killer is making it very easy to avoid being caught especially on large maps. As I have previously said why use a perk slot when I can achieve 4k without it? I don't need to find the survivors because when server ends they get sacrificed anyway. If they want to waste time for the sake of it they have that choice but it doesn't accomplish anything
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again, I’ve never said that. I do think providing a variation of Basekit UB is a solution, just as basekit deliverance has been for facecamping, but not in the way that was tried in the PTB where basically every one just had it. It should only come into play in a situation where 50% or more of players are slugged for ‘X’ amount of time. Then, the chance to recover from the dying state is given to ONE of those players chosen at random. This would be achieved via a continuous engagement with a mini game like the merciless storm style skill check or the Skull merchant’s multi input style ones.
this provides a fair balance as the killer can’t cover everyone and has no way of knowing who may get up. So they can’t just wait by the person who was slugged first to down them when they pop back up. The survivor who gets up therefore has a more fair chance of being able to pick up others and continue the normal play. If the killer then chooses to slug everyone again then the situation restarts. If the killer chooses to slug multiple people multiple times rather than hook then it’s a self inflicted ‘waste of time’.0 -
Yeah, and that's also a toxicity issue. I don't see how that negates my point at all.
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It doesn't negate your point, just saying it happens on both sides. It's unfortunate and it's not right to be toxic for the sake of being toxic but both sides have to learn to deal with it
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Yeah. The internet is undefeated in fostering toxic communities. If there's anything you can bet money on, it's the internet being toxic and optimizing the fun out of everything.
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No need for all this whataboutism. It does not matter if killer has separate issues, or whether or not you think it is justified because of whatever the killer could have experienced. What matters in this conversation is "survivors can be left on the floor and have to wait 4 minutes to die, unable to speed it up. Should this remain unchanged?" And the answer is no.
If you can be put in a situation in a multiplayer game where you have lost but have to wait 4 minutes to fully "lose" and be able to go to the next match (and can't do anything about it), that is an issue. And the fix is simple: after 60 seconds on the ground, allow a "bleed self out" option. Some may argue a survivor could use this to go next - that is fine, survivors can already do this on the ground by holding shift to avoid being healed.
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Yep I'm fine with that, slugging someone for 60 seconds beats hooking them so as long as this 60 second rule doesn't apply during 2 v 1 situations then it's all good. Because if I'm at risk of losing 4th survivor to a hatch due to 3rd bleeding self out trying to give hatch to their team mate then I would actively keep both alive for as long as possible until I'm confident I can down both.
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