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There should be a perk ban mechanic and no one can convince me otherwise
There are currently 276 perks in the game, and let's be honest, only 15% of them are used consistently. Not only that, but the perks that are used consistently have been like that since they were released (mostly). The meta is pretty stale and you see the same stuff every game.
On the other hand, when some obscure perk gets buffed to become good or overturned, everyone rushes to use it, then the community complains about, and BHVR has to rush to release a hotfix nerfing said perk instead of letting the community get used to it before making a decision. I was like this with Thrill of the Hunt and Boil Over for example. This doesn't let BHVR get experimental with perk tweaks and updates, since any thing bold they want to pull out might just cause chaos in the community.
That's why I say there should be a perk ban mechanic, where the killer chooses 4 perks to ban and each survivor chooses 1 perk to remove. Every player picks their band on the first 30 seconds of the lobby and then on the last 30 seconds it locks, allowing each player to adapt their build accordingly.
Instead of using Counterforce to deal with Thrill, just ban the perk. When playing Spirit, ban Iron Will so you don't get hardcountered by it. Did BHVR release a new broken perk? Ban it until they fix it. Want to shake the meta up? Ban the meta perks so the other side has to use more underground stuff.
And, for those of you who may say "oh I need X perk to win". Lobby dodging once you see the bans would still be a possibility, since you are only locked from leaving it in the last 15 seconds.
Comments
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Killer: *Bans DS, OTR, StB
Survivors: *Disconnect23 -
They can simply lobby dodge. Or use Babysitter, BT, or Blood Rush.
Also, they can ban Pain Resonance, Corrupt Intervention, and Nowhere to Hide. Honestly, that's a fair trade for me.
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I wish they would try a bare bones mode without any perks, items, addons or offerings.
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Not if you're the tunnel target.
This idea could maybe have been workable if the entire game had been designed with it in mind from the get-go, but that's a path DBD didn't take. At this point, the entire idea is just completely unworkable, especially with a lot of perks patching up basegame issues, most notably survivor perks.
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So how would that work, if a killer perk equals 4 survivor perks?
How do you make the survivors choose which killer perk gets banned?
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Gen rushing is also a problem that is patched by perks. By getting rid of gen defence perks, killers also get hindered by a lot. Rotative modes such as 2v8 and Lights Out had no perks for both sides and no one complained about that. If you are still losing as a survivor because you don't have DS or OTR when the killer has no gen defense, that's on you.
Each survivor chooses one perk to ban. Like, let's say Felix chooses Pain Resonance, David Dead Man's Switch, Jane Corrupt Intervention, and Cheryl Knock Out. They should also be able to talk in the chat and convince each other on which perks to ban. On the other sides, the killer ban OTR, Lithe, Hyperfocus, and Prove Thyself. That's 8 banned perks in total, 4 for each side.
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Now what would happen if no one chooses the same option? How do you think people who cructh on a perk would feel about it?
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We do not need more reasons to encourage lobby shopping, it's far too damaging to matchmaking. They can Killswitch game-breaking perks and have in the past.
One thing has always been clear, and that's that they really want players to run what builds they like. They monitor changes and new perks, and hotfix as they go. I would say many wish they did this quicker, but they do do it.
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Encouraging lobby shopping very nice and good spirits know how to play around iron will, there is still pools of blood and predator if you do lose the survivor.
Funny how a doctor never ask for calm spirit or even harden which really busted vs him nerfed but spirit players always want iron will nerfed.
If anything it be more justified that docs complain more of two perks that can counter him since he is way weaker than spirit.
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Each bans one perks, there is no vote. You just choose and ban.
Do people really use the perks they like, or do most of them simply use meta perks? Mirrored Illusion and Diversion are very fun perks to use, but I never see them.
Also, one of the points of the system is for BHVR to not rush updates, tweaks, hotfixes, or kill switches. By making a ban system, they can take their time to fix anything broken and evaluate if it is really that impactful in the game, since people can just avoid running into said perk entirely if they think it's a problem.
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I am a Doctor main and I say with confidence that I would not ban Calm Spirit if there was an option to. First because you never see it in the first place, second because it only counters his tracking ability, not his antiloop and his slowdown. On Spirit, I would always ban Iron Will simply because it nullifies your power and makes you go for a guessing game always. Unless they run forward like bots, in which case you can just hear their footsteps.
Also, in a perk ban system, if you see Iron Will get banned, you should assume that it is a Spirit, in which case you can use other perks that help against her, like Quick and Quiet, Dance With Me, Deception.
But alas, this is not a thread about Spirit and Iron Will. I merely used it as an example.
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I don't think so, to be honest.
The game shouldn't restrict your options like that.
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Tunnelers are just going to restrict the only perks that meaningfully get in their way. There are more than four regression perks but I'd argue survivors can hit the best ones and make it suck for the killer too. This will not have the effect you think, nothing will be shaken up and people will hate the game even more. The reason people stick to the meta is because the game feels barely playable without these meta perks. Well, for the most part.
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Survivors: *Wait in queue again
Killer: *Bans DS, OTR, StB
Survivors: *Disconnect, wait in queue again
Killer: *Bans DS, OTR, StB
Survivors: *Get back in line behind people who aren't babies
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Gen rushing is also a problem that is patched by perks
Is it? Cause the current discourse on the forums lately has been entirely around either:
- "slugging is the best current way to play the game. You can easily win by just slugging and never hooking" (which also means never activating most of the games gen defense perks)
- Or the recent thrill/hex meta which entirely revolves around totems and secondary objectives. The only time this touches on gens is if you run pentimento, which may not even be in play in a devour build.
Sounds like gen defense is largely unnecessary in the build at that point.
Most people also acknowledge the biggest problem with "gen rushing" is toolboxes, which aren't included your perk ban system either.
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This only works if they make other perks good. Both sides have maybe 10 good perks among them.
The game is effectively balanced around survivors taking anti-tunnel perks, and killers taking gen defense perks.
If they make tunneling impossible from a gameplay perspective so those perks aren't needed, and also buff basekit gen regression to be viable without perks, you could easily rework these perks and you'd see a much larger variety of perks and then maybe you could create such a system.
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Can't have the options to restrict your opponent in an asym, it just fits games like league the stuff you ban can't be on your team either but in a game like dbd you are only banning what your opponents can use which isn't a great idea.
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Both sides have good perks for both of these needs that are powercrept in comparison to the best perks. Babysitter and Blood Rush are both really good perks, but they aren't used because they aren't broken as DS and OTR. On the killer side, Surge, Oppression, and Dying Light aren't terrible either and can be used for that matter.
Also, killers tunnel to diminish gen efficiency at the end, and survivors do gens quickly to get things done fast before the first survivor dies. If you ban the best perks for both matters, it balances itself out to some extent.
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That's because the game is balanced around those best perks, that is precisely my point.
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If you aren't open to discussion, why post on a discussion forum? And why are you arguing your point at all?
No.
The last thing we need are more lobby dodges, considering how badly it breaks matchmaking.
This is an awful idea.
Oppression is a great perk and I run it on a lot of killers. Surge is crap as it eats up the kick limit really fast and also has easy counterplay. Babysitter is insane but only in SWFs. The rest are sort of crap.
Plus - you have killers like Trapper that all but require Corrupt.
What you're describing wouldn't balance anything. It would just cripple certain killers while enabling some truly gross playstyles.
For example - 4man SWF that comes in to play hide and seek, bans the handful of perks that can actually counter this. Oh boy. Or hard tunneling killer bans DS, Babysitter and OTR. Womp womp.
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What are you talking about OP? I never get tired of seeing 3 or 4 Windows of Opportunity every game...
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To be honest, I think this is an unworkable idea. Not only would it add more time to the process of queuing up for a trial, it's also not very fair.
Not unless the Survivors also knew which Killer they would be going up against. It's way too strong for the Killer side since they could guarantee a ban for any perk that specifically counters them (even fairly uncommon ones like Iron Will Vs a Spirit). For example, as a Legion I might choose to ban Resilience, Sprint Burst and Made For This in all my games. As Survivor, I might choose to ban Sloppy Butcher if I knew my opponent was a Dredge, but since I'll never know who my opponent is, I could easily end up wasting my ban on something that my opponent would probably never choose. Also, any trial where the Survivors want to ban Lightborn, I'm dodging that lobby as that's my comfort perk.
I don't see how there could ever be a way to make this system fair.
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The meta might be stale but I don't agree with taking away other players agency. It would basically be the killer setting the conditions of a game that doesn't just revolve around them, because obviously they will ban perks that directly counter their powers or their strategies. There's 4 other people in that game who want to be able to use the tools theyve invested time in obtaining (and possibly money, since theyve paid for certain survivors or killers specifically for those perks). If you don't like the meta then simply don't contribute to it. I've purposely avoided meta perks for years. Be the change you want to see etc etc.
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current state of the game has perks as solutions for problems in the game. Because of this, this perk ban system is not a good idea.
Killer wants to slug, anti slug banned. Killer wants to camp, anti camp banned. Killer wants to tunnel, anti tunnel banned. Survs want to slam gens, ban slowdowns. survs want to abuse strong main builds, ban bambooze, etc. Imagine the meltdown several killers would have if survivors banned lightborn then brought flashlights and flashbangs. would not be good for the overall state of the game.
If we existed in a timeline where you didn't need perks to fix issues with the game, maybe.
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Nah i want to pick my perks freely. This sounds awful.
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You should be able to guess what killer is on the other side based on the bans. For example, only Legion and Deathslinger would bother banning Made for this, so you could prepare accordingly and not bring Dead Hard and use Sprint Burst instead. This also works for other killers, like Spirit who pretty much would be the only one to ban Iron Will, Twins with Exponential, and Doctor with Calm Spirit.
There is a point as survivor, you wouldn't know which killer it is before banning the perks, and, although it's true that some killers have very specific perks that they use (like how Bubba and Billy depends on Bamboozle) most killers use generic perks, like Pain Resonance, Dead Man's Switch, and Corrupt Intervention, so banning these would pretty much be an universal choice.
The same can be said for killer. You are expected to see WoO, OTR, DS, and Lithe every game. That doesn't mean that you won't eventually run into a Head On squad, or a Hyperfocus squad, in which case you would have wasted all your bans on perks that they wouldn't have chosen in the first place, which is fine.
And even if the survivor team comes with a plan by using the ban system, like bringing flashlights and banning Franklin's and Lightborn, you will know what to expect, and you might even find usage in a underwhelming perk like Overwhelming Presence.
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On the flip side Survivors ban Pain Res, Pop, Grim
Killer DCs2 -
killers would just ban out exhaustions and survivors would just ban out slowdown, which would further homogenize builds onto the 5th-10th best perks instead of the 10 best perks as a whole.
this fixes no problems and causes a bunch of others.
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"and no one can convince me otherwise"
Great. So why bother even having a forum discussion then?
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