The Skurchent Nerfs set a bad precident.

1. Irrelevant. He can’t injury while cloaked.
2. False. Medium and large loops he cannot make it around. Small loops it’s 50/50 if he can’t see you over the loop.
3. His Addons are mediocre at best. He’s an m1 killer.
   
4. Ping is not his fault. If you have bad ping that’s on you. Upgrade your internet or get better equipment.
5. False - that award goes to bubba.
   
6. Irrelevant. He can’t injury you cloaked. Goes back to point 1. Fake the window or loop to make enough distance to squeeze into the pallet.
7. False - you can see him a mile away. You can hear his loud breathing and if he doesn’t have the Addon equipped he literally rings a loud bell that says “run”
8. Learn to loop wraith properly. Basic and easiest killer to loop.

ghostface, trapper, and (specifically) hit and run playstyle wraith are all anti-player interaction. their whole point is to reduce chase time passively with little skill involved (or in ghostface's case, actively with an asterisk that you can just 99 people for later and revealing only delays (or speeds up because the mechanic is objectively busted) the inevitable). skull merchant was the same way, except she also got a bunch of passive speed chase buffs that made her particularly miserable to go against. that's just the way they're designed. most people don't like that kind of anti-interaction, almost downright pve design in their pvp videogame.

it's the same reason why people complain about invisible light players in the finals even though lights are weak at a high level…it's simply not all that fun getting stunned & one shot constantly by people you couldn't even see. sure there are things you can do to prevent it, but then you get into issues of forcing people to use things/tactics they don't necessarily enjoy just to counter another thing that they don't enjoy. if enough of that is in the game then people will just quit. especially casual players who are indifferent to the idea of trying hard to adapt, or solo queue players who can try all they want to adapt but can't control the teammates they get paired up with.

maybe you'd stop seeing posts about directly nerfing said killers if we, as a community, could learn to separate the idea of balance from design (and furthermore design theory/intent from practice). but that's liable to make me go off on an unhinged tangent so I'll leave it at that.

given how you responded to me in the other thread i see no reason to explain anything to you whatsoever. you wear your bias on your face and seem to suffer from balance-brain.

"We cannot, CANNOT keep asking BHVR to just nerf every Killer we find even mildly annoying to go against. Come on now, have some faith in your abilities."

Abilities have nothing to do with it, or should I say little to do with it. Nurse (and any of the many killers that were stronger than SM at her peak) do not make at least one survivor DC/quit every single game. No one wanted to play a match with her regardless on if they could win or not. The "bad precedent" was her existence.

Yes. Because Nurse is just overpowered.

Skull Merchant was a full on meme. It was the quitting equivalent of mass hysteria. People quit because people quitting against SM was just the done thing. And that's why people describe it as a bad precedent - a killer that needed a few tweaks at best got viciously nerfed to deliberately stop people playing her, in exchange for some vague rework in 2028 or whenever they get around to it.

Take that into consideration. This wasn't a nerf to balance her. This was a nerf to stop people playing her.

About the only thing that needed a change was her dormant drones as these could be oppressive in chase due to how hard they were to spot.

The bar has been set low. Real low. One of the first things you said, and how it's not getting listened to, is exactly what's wrong with the game. How are people even arguing that 90% of killers on the roster are problematic? They're M1 or pseudo-M1, like Legion. How can you not beat these killers? Even Skull Merchant was M1, because she couldn't down anyone without an M1. Took a little more strategy, a little more teamwork, and all of sudden survivors act like the world is coming to an end.

With the killer matches I experience every time I get on, of getting as fast downs as possible and the game still ends at 1 gen or multiple people getting out, the game's a joke. It's not a matter of how often you lose; It's why you lost. Do you lose because the survivors loop really well? Or because they hold the gen button down for an arbitrary amount of time, maybe get a forced DS in when the killer isn't tunneling, and walk out the exits like they don't have a care in the world? I could do that every single match if I had a good survivor team. Solo matchmaking is the only thing that prevents it.

What we've seen, now more than ever before, is people asking that the skill, strategy, and teamwork be taken out of the game. If the killer's tunneling, either rush the gens to punish, or one of you body block the person. Don't just crumble as an entire team from the killer doing one good play. It's even more efficient to split up on gens, so stop 3-stacking on a gen every time. If you have trouble with 3-gens, put Deja Vu on and split the map (you can do that even without Deja Vu). Use the perks that counter the stuff you're always weakest to. All this stuff, the killers already know to do on their side. Instead of you doing it too, you're refusing to get better, and are just asking that the killers not be allowed to use their brains or skill.

It's popular these days to overplay how "bad" tiles have become. Just because every tile doesn't have 2 long sides, like some tiles that still exist in Coldwind and Eyrie, doesn't mean you can't run them. If the killer gets you there with Bloodlust, big deal. Them getting to Bloodlust just to get you every time is so much a time positive for you, it's not even funny. And that's the underlying message, what I'm reading between the lines: We should be able to 1v1 the killer for 3-5 gens at any given tile set-up.

1. That is literally one of the two things he has and even then you're still using that speed boost to bring him farther away from where you want him.
   2. This is easily countered if you just… spam vault the pallet/window because survivors will always get priority for the vault action over the break/vault action for killer
   3. "Op" Yeah no all seeing now is alright as an addon and shadow dance is countered by the what to do above.
   4. This is literally every killer?
   5. This isn't a problem
   6. Its very easy to not let a wraith get past you when the collision box for killers are already big so if you get body blocked unironically a skill issue because most of the time you can stand in his way as he tries to get past you(and even then this would still happen with pre cloak speed buff wraith because no wraiths used him without at least one wind storm)
   7. The downside is that he's a basic M1. Pig at least has pressure thanks to head traps or clown with bottles forcing pallets when you can counter wraiths cloaked form easily.

That's such a mischaracterization of what people are saying that…what?

No. Some killers need a nerf. Skull Merchant may well have needed one too. But this wasn't a case of adjusting a killer's kit for balance reasons. This was something else entirely that - yes - sets a really bad precedent.

What people have a problem with is:

• Deliberately nerfing her to the point of uselessness to get people to stop playing her because of quitters.
• Destroying a killer because of people quitting.
• People massively exaggerating how strong some killers are (just look in this thread in regards to Wraith of all things.
• The gloating and vindictive attitude of survivors post nerfs (lol not far enough just delete her with no compensation).

People quit against Skull Merchant because people quit against Skull Merchant. It was a holdover meme from her Chess Merchant days.

Now people are worried because this could just as easily happen to Hag, Doctor, Trapper, Plague, Cenobite, Wraith, Billy, Chucky (oh wait), Artist, Dracula, Bubba, Trickster, Huntress and any other killer that rubs people up the wrong way.

The main difference between Skull Merchant and Legion/Freddy is that BHVR said it was intentional to get people to stop playing Skull Merchant were a statement like that was never said around those 2.

This tells me you don't know how to play vs him because his power does not make all loops unsafe in the slightest.

Very killer sided post. Well OP never plays as a soloq surv in mid-high mmr where killers max dirty with broken builds. All those killers you are mentioned deserved some kind of nerfs (except Wraith), and looping 30+ killers is a lil too much for survivors, where as a killer you can main 1 killer and don't be stressed about which killer you will face, their builds, addons or maps. Killer gameplay is just chill for me since dbd is killer sided by stats. Merchant deserved her nerfs, she needs a good rework since her design is very awful

nono, i'm just liable to get in trouble if i continue. i gave the benefit of doubt before but then i saw the thread where you suggested reworking a perk into a 0 condition instaheal perk with the effects of a perk that already exist in the game.

I can only judge the character of OP's post by what is written, Im responding to the post OP made, not the following responses.
The post literally refers over and over again to dismissing responses regarding nerfs and asks to not ask for nerfs.
How can it be a mischaracterization when that is LITTERALY what they say?

Luckily for us BHVR listens to all of us and they certainly realize that they made major mistakes on the Skull merchant, but also that they needed to pacify her, its at least better than kill-switching her. Since BHVR has never laid out the case for us in full, we would never know for sure, but if they can find reasonable evidence to make those changes

You may disagree ofc, but you dont have stats nor the responsibility of keeping this game from not sinking, do you like OP believe most Survivors just give up for because they cant be bothered and BHVR has done no effort to verify that problem?
Even if that is the case, that IS a problem that needs fixing anyway. I'm not so interested in that you do disagree, more why you disagree and how accurate your assessment can be shown to be.

You also need to ignore what Survivors say or post to goat you anywhere, someone being a meanie on the internet trying to goat you isn't an argument that BHVR needs to take into account here. Neither do I, nor does you. You are getting riled up over it, just as many Killers do when they say "gg ez skill-issue" in postgame chat.

Lastly, you assume this came easily, again you dont have the stats, you cant demonstrate your assumptions here.
Why do you assume this comes out of nowhere?

By far the most annoying thing about wraith is all the body blocking strategy.

I don't think the whole slow down to a snail's pace while uncloaking and then suddenly zoom when completed is a good design choice.

And frankly, the fact that he snarls and gargles so loudly kind of ruins his stealth.

"How is that fair to anyone who wants the game to have variety?"

It's not, because survivors don't want variety. They want every killer to basically be exactly the same with barely any variation. They don't want to have to learn different strategies or think outside the very narrow box of "loop killer, do gens."

Have you not noticed how every killer (or strategy) that does something different, has some sort of game play outside of chase, or makes the survivor do anything that isn't working on gens, have been consistently getting nerfed into oblivion or gets constantly complained about as "unfun" until it is rendered impotent?