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What's going on with babykillers and tunneling lately?
Comments
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I am not so sure about that.
As I said some solo q players can pull that off. The majority can't.
Blaming them for not being on your level won't lead anyone anywhere. It takes at least a few hundred hours of dbd to get decent.
And most of the people only got good at looping after they played the game for more then 1 or 2 thousand hours.
I m not sure the majority of the player base plays that much dbd to get there.
Solo q players do not have the same coordination then swf players so there is no good comparison for these two parties.
Blaming survivors for not playing up to your standards is not a way to justify tunneling.1 -
Good, another hypocrite gone is actually improving the discussion.
Basically your whole post was wrapped around that topic so good job tripping for nothing.1 -
If we extrapolate your logic from the fighting games and apply it to the situation I described in my initial post…
We could agree that there were a lot of people better then us when we started dbd (which is normal) and we didn't ran into them because of mmr (after sbmm was introduced).
However if every killer in all categories plays like I described it .. then I think the same what happened in the fighting games you described will happen in dbd too.
There will be no new players because they don't enjoy the game. And I can't blame them. Getting tunneled or seeing someone getting tunneled every match is very frustrating and boring. So if you then don't even know how to play around that. New players will most likely not stick around.
Veteran players like myself and others will eventually stop playing survivor or dbd alltogether (playing killer can also be very frustrating and boring sometimes)
Among the group of people I know I am the last one to actually play dbd and I already had a few breaks because I did not have any fun anymore (especially playing survivor).
Now we can debate a lot about the egg and the chicken but ultimately this means that more and more players will stop playing , amplifiny and ramping up the situation because only those who play comp and tunnel stay.
It kind of is a downwards spiral which may lead to the end of dbd. The playerbase is already in decline and Im not sure there is something to stop that until dbd is fun to play for people of all skill levels again.1 -
If we want to solve something, and not continue endless conversations on various topics, then we should start asking the right questions. I have already mentioned them here. Otherwise, we are just trying to talk and have a conversation that leads to nothing. When asking these questions, we must throw away morality and the belief that all people are good and think like me.
Why do only camping, tunneling and slug killers find the current DBD interesting?
Where did the 12 hooks and chase killers go?
Let's take the forum here. Many people write quite nice people who play as a killer and think about fun. It is worth joining the game to survive this eternal holiday of tunneling, camping and telling players that the game is as if their lives depend on it.
Personally, after this, I have some dissonance, where I understand that we are doing something wrong. With each patch it becomes more and more persistent. If out of a conditional 100 people only 10 people want to be cheerful killers for survivors. At least think about the feelings of survivors.
Why do we still have 90 people on the side of killers who are trying to kill survivors in every possible way. After all, these 90 people on DBD have a fun time with spending time. They are doing so well that they are not visible on this forum.
The questions above are asking the question.
Therefore, when we create topics. Never appeal to the conscience and morality of your opponent in DBD. At best, you are nothing more than a trophy for them, in which game hours, prestige, perks and the presence of SWF are of interest. You simply will not be able to get through to their conscience.
Buffs and nerves do not solve the main problems. In their own way. I am like a person who is engaged in camp, tunnels and slug. Until now in the game and somehow still have not become a funny killer. I am sitting and a question. How is your struggle? Will your nerfs and buffs be able to re-educate or drive me out of the game?
The only way to make the game enjoyable for survivors is to increase the number of killers who want to be funny killers ...
(It kind of is a downwards spiral which may lead to the end of dbd. The playerbase is already in decline and Im not sure there is something to stop that until dbd is fun to play for people of all skill levels again.)
Sometimes we just have to push something to the edge for gravity to do its job. I mentioned 2020. There was an interesting story. The killers lobby turned into this. Many people started asking questions. The right questions. As you can see, those questions lasted for 4 years. Now we have a new rank system that we don't even see. So we can't even prove that there's something wrong with the game.
2020
As a bonus, here's what the ranks looked like in 2018 and 2019. As it turned out, in 2019 I only had one post-game screenshot and that was because of a conversation.
(Solo q players do not have the same coordination then swf players so there is no good comparison for these two parties.
Blaming survivors for not playing up to your standards is not a way to justify tunneling.)
I'm not making excuses. I'm just stating a fact. They are doomed to suffer. Someone always has to pay. The Solo Survivors drew the short straw in the conflict between the Killer, the Solo Survivors, and the SWF. They are simply paying the SWF's bills. I agree that it's sad and unfair, but that's life. The Killers are not eager to pay the bills to keep the Solo Survivors and SWF happy. The only constant is that someone has to pay. That's the vicious circle we live in.
(But if im up against solo q (which you will notice after a few minutes into the game what your up against))
The problem here is that when I notice solo survivors. If, of course, I have time to figure out who is who. It's too late to worry about anything. Irreparable damage has been done. Although sometimes I met survivors who seemed to get a second wind before the 3rd hook. They showed such miracles of skill that I was surprised how I caught them quickly before that.
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Because… fundamentally… people like to win when they play games. The challenge is how to win the match - not how to get he most hook states, not how to win while also letting the other side have fun, not how to pip and rank up since ranks mean nothing anymore - the goal is to win by getting at least three kills, by any means necessary. This is what the devs and the game push as the win condition, therefore, people are going to find the most efficient and reliable way to secure that win.
This is like saying that knocking-out your opponent in MMA is bad sportsmanship. It's the most efficient way to win the match. They don't care if the opponent only gets to fight one round. They won the match, so it doesn't matter.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, it's just the way it is right now. People play competitive games to win, and DBD is a competitive game apparently. The end.
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people in dbd community simply don't realize that not everybody wants to flex skill difficulty between them and average survivor player in dbd thanks to poor MMR system.
People see V1, KnightLight or other top 0.1% players handicapping themselves as much as possible by doing no slugging/camping/tunneling on weak killers and they act like "you see? They can win without that and they consistently win" and expect other average killer players to follow their example, but never want to try something the other way round. Those players also have very high escape rate in soloQ and very high 4-men out rate as SWFs against average pub killers. But shhhhh, i have full right to play however i want, while you are the one that should follow community-made rules.
Classic "me using meta = ok; opponent using meta = bad" because opponent trying to play most efficiently to win will always be viewed as a bad sportsmanship by this community.
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I really can't imagine that BHVR wants people to be able to play in a way that removes all the fun from their opponent's experience. It's likely they just don't have a way to deal with tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k, and bully squads without removing a necessary way to deal with something some people on the opposing side will do.
For example, because bully squads exist, killers need to be able to slug aggressively and potentially engage in tunneling, camping, etc. Without certain tactics, killers could be bullied without a way to turn the tables on such players, which would make playing killer a very bad experience. Likewise, I think BHVR feels a need to keep flashlight/flashbang/stun saves, because removing them would take away a major game mechanic that isn't inherently toxic.
I would imagine that BHVR would limit all those things in the survivor and killer side if they could, but that they find that removing one of those will leave them unable to preserve balance in some situations. But then that leaves it in the players' hands to ensure that all players can enjoy their games.
Really though, no online game is meant to be a competitive sport except inside of certain gaming leagues. Pretending that DbD or any other video game should be treated in the same way as MMA or professional football (American or the other kind) is a dramatic misrepresentation of why people play the game. We're all playing to have fun, and just like with any activity we do with other people, we should be considering whether the people we share that activity with are able to enjoy their time as well. The only real exception to that should be things like professional sports, but online gaming isn't that outside of pro- or competitive- leagues or tournaments.
I get really surprised when I hear people playing games for fun with other people and then hear them say "It's not on me to make sure you have fun." It's always our responsibility to make sure the people we share activities with can enjoy them with us.
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The fact you don't understand the comparison is all I need to know about your viewpoint on the matter and how you haven't even attempted to see it from the killers standpoint.
People tunnel because it's the most efficient way to play the game. What are the reasons to NOT tunnel? There are none, LITERALLY no incentive for the killer to not do it from a gameplay standpoint. The only reason is to make the survivors game more enjoyable.
Likewise, if there are 3 generators remaining, 2 are at 0 progress and 1 is at 80% it is the most efficient way to play to do the one at 80%. What reward does the survivor get for ignoring the generator that is almost finished to go do the 2 that are completely 0'd? None, so why would they do it?
When you have 4 survivors to kill and 1-2 are 2nd stage and the other 2-3 are 1st hook or 0 hook, why would you not kill the person 2nd stage to cut the efficiency down by 25%?
You're calling killers "baby killers" for playing the game efficiency and complaining that they are tunnelling when that's literally the most lucrative option they have. Do you want to know how to stop this situation? Reward the killer for going for the other players. Give them an incentive to do it, "oh I could get this person dead early and cut the efficiency by 25%, or I could get a fresh hook at get a free basekit pain resonance if I chase this person I've not hooked yet".
The fact killers need to run perks in order to be rewarded for not tunnelling and those perks DELETE THEMSELVES is the very reason everyone is doing it alongside the fact gen regression has been curb stomped into irrelevancy so you can't keep the match going on for long enough to not do it even if you wanted to anymore vs decent survivors. All nerfing these playstyles does is make killers play even sweatier with sweatier killers and at the rate this game is going there will be no other option for killers than to play Nurse 24/7 to have a chance to win consistently just like it was back in the day.
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bro made a post about not tunneling…
RIP bro… you had a noble cause… but the casual "everyone should have fun" community has been replaced by the comp kids. They will never except your plea of mutual enjoyment.
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It's likely they just don't have a way to deal with tunneling, camping, slugging for 4k, and bully squads…
They do they're called perks, and if survivors really have a problem with these strategies personally, they should run the perk that counters it. Instead they don't do this, and prefer to complain about killer strategies so BHVR nerfs any variance in playstyle into the ground, and in doing so makes the perks themselves have less of an impact on less games overall.
…no online game is meant to be a competitive sport except inside of certain gaming leagues. Pretending that DbD or any other video game should be treated in the same way as MMA or professional football (American or the other kind) is a dramatic misrepresentation of why people play the game. We're all playing to have fun…
I fully agree with this sentiment, but just because we want it to be true doesn't make it so. Just because people play for fun, doesn't make it non-competitive. DBD has always been a competitive game, only in the last few years has that emphasis on comp over fun been hard pushed by BHVR. The over-prioritisation of balance over fun, the insistence on not only the implementation of MMR but it's setting of kills/personal escapes as a win condition, the removal of the rank system giving players no idea of and no control over the kind of games they get, and the promoting of this kind of mindset to the incoming playerbase.
I only compared the game to MMA facetiously to make a point, but the whole idea is that I shouldn't have to make that comparison at all. Every year I play this game the more competitive it, and the community, gets. Every year playstyles are crushed by BHVR, which only forces out even more desperate and boring gameplay and gem-defence metas. BHVR doesn't want people to play in these ways, but in gutting them, gives no other options back. This is why we still see the exact same regression perks that have been meta for years, we still see proxy camping, still see slugging for 4k. The game design in pushing harder and harder for comp play, so comp play is what we're gonna get. This design is coming from the people who view the game in comparison to hockey, we really shouldn't be surprised this is happening.
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Mostly agree :)
Also, imagine I made a joke about BHVR being stereotypical and wanting DbD to be like hockey ;D
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