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Making killers more fun and interesting to go agaisnt
Clown: having so much bottles in his basekit allows him to spam his already easy to use power. He should require more skill.
Bottles from 6 to 4. "Fingerless parade gloves" is now base kit. When the bottles hit directly survivors, they get an extra 7% Hindered. When holding a bottle, the clown can change the throwing arc: normal or with a 60º angle. Now when bottles travel more than 10m, the gas area gets bigger, up to +50%.
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Legion: their big problem is how boring and annoying mending is for survivors. Another is how one has to depend on their teammates to avoid not getting the instadown.
Feral frenzy no longer applies Deep wounds. Slashing healthy survivors injures them, slashing injured survivors now gives them 3% Hindered until they heal (they also vault 5% slower). After hiting a survivor, the feral slash to the second will give them 2% Hindered, the third survivor suffers 4% and the fourth 6%. The Hindered stacks if the survivor is already injured. I believe players would choose the bit of Hindered rather than the Deep wounds.
The fatigue by cancelling the power goes from 3s to 2,5s and the one by entirely draining the power bar from 3s to 1,5s.
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Singularity: I want to encourage the use and placement of biopods, not the cannon. The noise of it's footsteps is too loud, needs to be lowered by 75%.
Biopod cooldown after tagging a survivor from 3s to 2,5s and EMPs hack duration from 45s to 30s. Now teleporting to tagged survivors directly with the cannon will remove the tag from them, meaning you will only get one teleport if you use the cannon. Haste from Overclock mode from 3% to 5%. Now to retrieve EMPs from 3D printers, survivors have to complete the (up, down, left, right) mini-game, but there are 20 steps, failing one resets it and reveals the survivor with killer instinct.
Nemesis
Zombie speed from 1m/s to 2m/s. Healthy survivors can put them on the ground for 10s by pressing the interaction button while in contact (they will wiggle with the zombie for 4s while facing continuous skillchecks). Now Nemesis can press secondary ability button to roar loudly and call the nearest zombie within 32m to his location. This cannot be performed near hooked survivors.
Remove the 0,3s lingering hitbox of the Tentacle strike.
Dredge
Remove the background noise (screams) during Nightfall for both the Dredge and survivors. Also remove the dark edges around survivors camera in Nightfall, but Dredge no longer gets hightlighted. Remove the sound and visual effect when Dredge stays hidden in lockers. Lockers exit time outside Nightfall from 1,5s to 1,25s and movement speed while holding the power from 3,8m/s to 3,7m/s. Make the locker placement and number around maps more uniform and consistent, stop with the "twin lockers" spawns cause its terrible.
Trapper
To get free from the traps, survivors need to hold the button for 5s (+1,5s from the initial animation of stepping in the trap). Injured survivors who get caught in bear traps suffer a 5% Hindered until they heal. Trapper can carry and starts with 7 bear traps in hand (none on the ground). Survivors aura and location won't be revealed if they don't scream when trapped.
Now after 45s of being disarmed, traps reactivate by themselves with a sound cue that survivors can hear within 10m. Rework his red and purple addons.
Xenomorph
Cooldown on destroying turrets with tail attacks from 3s to 2,5s. Crawler mode cooldown from 35s to 25s. Tail attack charge time from 0,2s to 0,25s. Xenomorph no longer can lunge his basic attacks while in Crawler mode (like Myers Tier I). Survivors now are able to hear the killer getting back Crawler mode 3 seconds earlier.
Noise made when exiting tunnels reduced by 33%. Hindered when carrying turrets from 35% to 20%.
Comments
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What on earth is with the needless asking for Nerfs for perfectly fine, balanced, functional Killers?
You do all realize if you ask for nerfs like these they will just buff other more annoying parts of their powers, right? You all know you're not entitled to ask for Killers to be destroyed just because you successfully all got Skurchent made useless, right?
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i wish survivors were more fun to go against. Seeing the same completely overpowered perks every game is awful. On top of that most maps are insanely survivor sided, aside from survivors beeing the stronger role in general. Also because of their perks. And since my good old blight got nerfed, he is practically useless in most loops and every filler forces him to play m1 only. Also the collisions on every map are awful and there is so much unnecessary ######### everywhere, that it is practically impossible to play movement killers. Not only blight, but hillbilly aswell, for example.
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Yeah they need to rework boring/annoying killers to make them fun to vs
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Half of these changes are buffs, I think you might be reacting prematurely.
To the wider topic: Not bad changes overall, but there's a couple things I'm not sure of. I don't think the Nemesis zombies are anywhere near as strong or consistent as they'd need to be if Tentacle Strike is being nerfed that hard, for example, and Trapper definitely shouldn't start with all his traps.
As for Legion specifically, the devs are changing Deep Wounds in January, so I suppose we'll have to wait and see which direction would be better there lmao
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Yeah, I nerfed some parts of the killers… and at the same time I compensated that by buffing other things. That was the point, nerfing the annoying stuff and buffing the healthy parts of the killer powers to encourage more dynamic gameplay. Do I need to enumerate the amount of buffs and nerfs?
Clown: 1 medium nerf / 2 medium and 2 small buffs
Legion: 1 big nerf / 4 medium buffs
Singularity: 1 big nerf / 4 medium buffs
Nemesis: 2 small nerfs / 1 medium and 1 small buff
Dredge: 2 small nerfs / 1 medium and 2 big buffs
Trapper: 1 medium nerf / 2 medium and 1 huge buff
Xenomorph: 1 medium and 2 small nerfs / 1 big, 1 medium and 1 small buff
Post edited by BoxGhost on0 -
you mean easier for you to go against not fun an interesting
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lots of poorly thought out nerfs.
reducing clown bottle count will furder penalize the killer for using yellow bottles. furthermore, the glove add-on radicially changes how clown is played from lopping grenade to a forward launcher. encourages purple only play-style is also strange.
xenomorph charge time is his most defining quality and should not be changed. He'd lose something that makes him special.
singularity losing infection every time they use a cannon is free emps. being punished for using a power is not good design choice. less lazy, use emps.
legion spends great time sink into using his ability as he runs around the map. the last thing that legion needs is survivors doing gens while he does that. deep wound sort of counter-balances the wasted time running around stabbing making interaction net neutral while enforcing his stay injured play-style. i don't think healing perk should be outpacing his injury capacity and deep wound sort of keeps that in check on average.
nemesis linger hitbox is skill enhance mechanic to make him harder to play. removing this would make nemesis tentacle strike a risk to use even when survivor is in deadzone and for how his tentacle strike works, it is structured in such a way that you can replace ur m1 with m2 entirely if your good enough at him. i don't think using his tentacle strike should be worse play then using his m1. the alternative is them making his tentacle strike bigger then huntress hatchets but that makes less skillful play.
Also remove the dark edges around survivors camera in Nightfall, but Dredge no longer gets hightlighted.
big no. i think purpose behind that was an early attempt to fix people that use Reshade or these hacking-type graphic tools for when dredge was created. it is also there to try set a standard in term of vision loss so that all player roughly experience the same amount of vision loss. spamming max brightness shouldn't nerf the killer for free.
there are many attempts to buff killers but they're often wrong changes with convoluted goals. for example. clown getting higher reward on pink usage could be acheived by having slightly higher intoxic duration such as 2.5 →3.5 seconds. Instead of punishing clown furhter for using his power which is added time sink reloading for killer, it would be better if clown had a mechanic where he reloads all his bottles after successfully putting a survivor in dying state. The shoulder of burden change really hurts clown as he requires tunneling and quick elimination of survivors to have any map presence. the developers already invented a good mechanic for direct hit on clown. exposed. Reverting his pinky finger to not have bottle penaltys should be considered so that clown be balanced around spread hooking/12 hooking as his chase is still a little on low side for hook spreading.
The other killers on the list likely need positive changes as well but i don't think OP post changes are the right ones.
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The rudeness wasn't needed just because I disagreed with you, I have a life outside of these forums. Why would I respond to you instantly? It's not Twitter…
I still do not see how any of these are really buffs, and to be fair there's A LOT of everyone complaining about literally every Killer on the forums right now. Yours looks like that. My apologies for misintrpreting.
But the rudeness and calling me ignorant just because I didn't insta-reply in a nanosecond was not necessary.
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Remove the 0,3s lingering hitbox of the Tentacle strike.
:(
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Solid, agree with most.
The only thing I disagree on is Clown and Pinky Finger. Hard tunneling is a player choice, not something that can be limited by making the power better. Blight, Nurse, Billy, Spirit are all strong and have the map presense and lethality where they don't need to tunnel and chew through OTR and DS and alike, yet a lot of them do, and are among the best tunnelers in the game. All making the exposed hits viable again on Clown does is make tunneling even easier, because players can't even body block and just get slugged.
Clown couldn't be buffed for years solely because every single buff came with the question "what about Pinky Finger?"... in the same way Myers couldn't be buffed because every buff came with the question "what about Tombstone Piece?"
Post edited by UndeddJester on2 -
Clown is already a pretty weak killer. The extra 7% on a direct hit would be nice, but not enough to make up for removing 1/3 of his bottles. Especially considering that this would not really work for his haste bottles. Fingerless gloves are just an alternative playstyle, they aren't automatically more skill intensive or better. The more than 10 meter thing sounds nice, but slightly bigger clouds are an extremely minimal buff, and would make yellow bottle even worse because it makes it even easier for Survivors to take advantage of them too.
Legion: Extended Hindered is absolutely more annoying than having to mend. This would also mean you can't hit the same Survivor twice in the same Frenzy, which you could do before if they mended.
Singularity: The getting EMP minigame just sounds annoying, especially considering Singualrity is a killer than can easily interrupt Survivors. Reducing the EMP duration would drastically buff totem builds and allow Singularity to easily interrupt everything. The cannon thing just sounds annoying for the killer.
Nemesis: Currently Zombies are mostly good to slightly bother Survivors, with some rare use in chase. You changes would flip that, with Survivors being easily able to disable Zombies outside of Chase, but them grabbing you mid chase would kill you. Zombies are good the way they are. They don't need a rework. Removing the lingering hitbox would remove almost all skill expression from the killer. A lot of times a Survivor will dodge the tentacle, but the killer can drag the lingering hitbox onto them to land a hit.
Dredge: This would be a gigabuff that Dredge doesn't need. Removing the outline would make sneaking up on Survivors in Nightfall trivial. Removing twin lockers would vastly increase the amount of lockers Survivors need to individually lock. This would make Dredge even more unbearable in Soloqueue than it already is.
Trapper: If I am not mistaken it currently takes on average 4 attempts to escape from a trap at 1.8 seconds each, so if you do frame perfect escape attempts 7.2 seconds. So this would, on average, decrease the escape time from traps and make a weak killer even worse in that aspect. The lcoation not being revealed thing when not screaming would also be a slight nerf to the character. Giving self rearmed traps an audio cue means they are trivial to redisarm. The hindered when injured sounds nice, but trapper is 4.6 killer with no ability a lot of times. People will generally stay healthy against you, especially with iridescent coil reworked. The carrying 7 traps thing would be nice, but overall these changes would make a bottom tier character even worse.
Xenomorph: Removing the ability to lunge in Crawler mode would likely mean killers would often times not want to be in crawler mode. The tail is nice, but in the same way huntress hatchets are. They are an addition threat. If you run circles around a huntress you might not get hit by hatchets, but you would get M1ed. Restricting Xenomorphs ability to do that would be horrendous and make the killer much worse, especially with the other Nerfs here.
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Hard tunneling is a player choice, not something that can be limited by making the power better
Not always. sometimes the player is doing a behaviour because they get punished if they don't do that behaviour. that is the case for clown. he doesn't down fast enough to spread hooks. he needs pinky finger to down fast enough. that was the change that happened like 5-6 months ago for clown. they nerfed his ability to play for hooks by nerfing lethality and made him more tunnel-focused by buffing his 1vs1 chase.
All making the exposed hits viable again on Clown does is make tunneling even easier, because players can't even body block and just get slugged.
Not necessarily, if my chases take less time, i am more likely to leave hooks and chase other survivors away from hook because i am more confident in my ability to get a down faster than waiting for survivor to go for unhook. Instant down only makes you better at defending hooks/camping but people often simulate defending hooks with tunneling because of the camping → tunnelling people off hook scenario. instant down is nasty in unhook scenario's but giving killer instant down as reward to move away from hook is one way to get killer to go away from hooks, pinky finger kinda achieved that before, but issue with old clown was that his 1vs1/yellow bottles were very weak so people used it for camping because clown was weak at 1vs1 chase prior to the change.
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Aye, the problem is we're both right...
lts a double edged sword... you can't really make a killer strong enough to not tunnel, without also making them strong enough to tunnel. Clown is a god tier unhook interrupter with with old pinky finger... kinda hard to stop that
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the OP should be forced to print out and eat these terrible ideas, Jesus christ
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a killer that is strong is good at pure tunneling, slugging all 4 survivors or doing combination of camping+tunneling/slugging. my thoughts is that clown needs quicker time to down(TTS). It is not high enough for him to spread hooks evenly. BVHR too busy listening to survivor crybabies to properly buff killers which tack on nerf's to every killer change they make.
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The hindered on legion stabs doesn't make any sense. Why would you chain stabs if the person you just hit is now slower and you cancel faster? You would just frenzy against a healthy survivor and hit them twice to injure and slow them and get knocked out of your power. You're just removing the power fantasy.
Nemesis buffing zombies to kill using the tentacle strike will just make players not want to play Nemesis. No one plays Nemesis for barely useful ai companions.
All these changes will do is push players away from these killers and lowering killer diversity.
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