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Mettle of Man needs a slight tweak
For a perk that requires a full game of set up you should not just lose it if you get downed from full health
After triggering your third Protection Hit, Mettle of Man activates:
- While injured, Mettle of Man shields you from going down the next time you take damage.
- to the Killer whenever you are farther than 12/14/16 metres from them.
- Mettle of Man deactivates the next time you are put into the Dying State
Comments
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I agree. I've always found it silly that Mettle of Man specifically only protects you from being downed if you're injured and doesn't work while healthy against Exposed/other double-damage attacks, especially considering Endurance does protect you in those situations (in that situation you become injured and deep wounded but don't go down).
Mettle of Man definitely should be changed to work while healthy against double damage, just have it put you in the injured state but not down you
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I agree this could be a good tweak, I wouldn't even mind it as an M1 Main. It certainly needs something.
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MoM was strong in the past from how easy it was to get. originally it was 3 normal hits then became protection hits. and it was 2 hits but quickly reverted. I haven't even seen this perk in ages and the last couple of times i did activate it myself i was downed from full health do to noed so it was a waste.
this tweak will not make the perk strong but it will get rid of the feelsbad moment where the perk you worked so hard to setup doesnt do anything
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Not sure I understand what the tweak is…
I would guess as long as you don't get downed you can keep healing up and take another hit?
It does need something with such a punishing activation condition I don't think it needs the restrictions it has.
Pretty solid argument I feel.
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Basically, all the tweak is is that if you have your 3 protection hits, and you were healthy and got hit by a chainsaw for example, MoM would work and you would become injured but would not be put into the dying state, similar to how the endurance status effect works.
With current MoM, if this happens you actually go down even if you have your 3 protection hits, the shield hit specifically only works while you are injured and can protect from double damage while injured but not while healthy which is really weird imo.
It wouldn't let you use the perk multiple times in a row or anything, just makes it a little more consistent
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Sorry if I'm being dense...
Basically, all the tweak is is that if you have your 3 protection hits, and you were healthy and got hit by a chainsaw for example, MoM would work and you would become injured but would not be put into the dying state, similar to how the endurance status effect works.
Is this referring to the OPs post, or your post?
Yours makes sense, 100% agree with yours... I'm trying to work out what the OP means... 😅
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It should be two protection hits to activate and the aura reveal removed.
I don’t understand nerfing a perk to the point where the community deems it useless. The weaker perks need to be buffed to be in line with the strongest ones. That’s the best way to shake up the meta- give players options. And this goes for both survivor and killer. Territorial Imperative (worst perk in the game) should not be in the state it’s in, heading into 2025.
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There was a version that granted endurance, but so many survivors complained that it was a nerf, that it got reverted.
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No worries. I thought the OP's suggestion was the same as this, that's why I brought it up in mine. Since they mentioned how you shouldn't lose MoM if downed from healthy. Maybe I misunderstood though.
That version of the perk (the 6.1.2 version) technically could be stronger in certain situations but it was a lot less fun to use since you lost it if you took a conspicuous action making your protection hits count for nothing basically. The only way to use it was to build it up and then either hope the killer switched targets to you, or just continue to bodyblock instead of being able to save it for a more opportune moment. It was a bad rework and it also didn't even work properly, it was bugged and only got fixed because the rework got reverted in the next update
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Ok thank you I was trying to remember why the 2 hit version was so bad(the wiki did not mention that). I cant believe they made it disable on conspicuous action, another reason why it being bad on endurance 2 hits is because the killer could immediately get rid of hit by hitting you off hook.
MoM should protect you from healthy not just from injured to anyone else that was unclear
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Well yeah, it was a nerf, conspicuous actions would deactivate it
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"Protect you from healthy" would mean endurance, and endurance would mean it deactivates on a conspicuous action.
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MoM shields you from going to down, its a different effect, and they could easily change it to also shield you from going down from healthy
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Perks shouldn't ever have special custom effects like that, especially when it's literally "I want endurance but with 0% downsides".
Mettle only has the current effect because it was created a very long time ago, and people aren't complaining that it's too powerful. But giving the perk "endurance but with 0% downsides", would just open the floodgates for people to ask for special exceptions for other perks.
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The downside is you need to take 3 protection hits, which is like 45 seconds healing bare minimum, plus all the time getting into position for those hits, all of which is time not on gens
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Needing 3 protection hits is enough of an activation requirement to justify that effect. Most of the time it doesn't even happen at all. The change OP is asking for barely changes the perk's strength and would not matter at all in probably 99% of games, it simply removes one frustrating element of the perk and that's it. It's not like it would be any easier to activate the perk in the first place.
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And if a special exception is made for the Mettle perk, then a bunch of people would complain that the special exception they want for a different perk "barely changes the perk's strength", and their favorite perk should get an exception just like Mettle did.
Making a special exception, that "would not matter at all in probably 99% of games", is not worth doing… especially if the special exception would cause a lot of complaints about other perks.
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And why exactly is that a bad thing? If there really is some other similar issue with another perk that needs fixing then why is it bad to make an exception? And I'm not only saying this about survivor perks, this includes killer perks too. As long as perk descriptions are clear about how they work I don't see an issue with it if there's a good reason for it.
Also, Mettle's protection effect already is unique as it is in that it doesn't cause deep wound, there's no other perk that can do that.
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Mettle's effect, that was create a way long time ago, and isn't anything like other perk effects, is unique. But that doesn't mean the perk has a free pass to be anything else that is unique.
If the Mettle perk was originally created today, it would have had the endurance effect, for the sake of consistency. Mettle is only allowed to keep the inconsistent wording because like zero people complained that the inconsistent effect was unfair for killers. But there absolutely 100% would be lots of complaining if BHVR created "endurance but with zero downsides" as an effect.
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But that's the thing, it's not "endurance with zero downsides", it has to be earned by taking multiple protection hits and staying alive long enough to do that too. Most games with Mettle of Man do not result in even getting 3 protection hits and I genuinely cannot remember the last time I got hit by it as killer.
"Endurance with zero downsides" would've been a better description for the old Buckle Up + FTP. That was genuinely unfair and it had to be nerfed. Mettle of Man comes nowhere close to that and still wouldn't even if this change was made.
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The effect is "endurance with zero downsides". The trigger condition is "earned by taking multiple protection hits". Effects and trigger conditions are two very separate things.
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endurence was in the game long ago before mettle of man was added to the game. the perk was specific designed to counter any and all hits in its first iteration. it got shadow nerfed. it's only counter is suppose to be machine gun and nothing else. still it's pretty bad perk.
it would likely be better if it triggered on 3rd hit even if that hit would down you. for example if you have 1 stack and you take 2 protection hits. the second protection gives stack & allows you to tank that hit. that would likely make the perk stronger.
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BHVR literally tried to update this perk to modern standards, by turning it into an endurance perk, and completely removing the custom status effect. If the perk were ever to be changed again, it absolutely should be to changed back to endurance, so that it doesn't stack with other endurance perks, and so it deactivates on a conspicuous action.
And it doesn't matter what the previous version was designed to do, because many other perks have been nerfed even though they did exactly what they were designed to do.
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it's designed to stack with other endurance perks. nobody is running the perk. it is just there to be there. if they made the perk gain stacks by unhooking like original iteration in the ptb and did the change in my previous post, it would be in a stronger position but i think bvhr does not want to buff the perk due it's release iteration. i imagine that a lot of player in new player of dbd have no idea what this perk used to be.
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They tried it already. It didn't go well so don't expect much on that front anytime soon.
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I think BHVR's logic is that it's currently a niche perk, that has some very enthusiastic fans, and killers aren't complaining about it, so it should just stay as it is.
And if BHVR really wanted another "shield a survivor from a hit" perk, they could just make a new one instead.
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Long as we don't go back to original MoM ok
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This is a bad idea it completely gets rid of the uniqueness of the perk the whole point of it was to get stronger by taking hits. making it endurance based completely changes the identity of the perk making it a weak anti tunnel perk that forces you to jump in front of a survivor multiple times which would probably only end up benefiting swfs. MoM is a weak perk with or without a going down from full health or injured but youre trying to say all perks should do the same thing.
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I'm saying the perk should either stay exactly the same as it is, or it should be changed to an endurance perk. I'm also saying the perk should never ever have a more powerful custom effect, like "endurance but with zero downsides".
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