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Maps have become a joke [kind of ranty; take with a pinch of salt]
I understand that a lot of maps used to be survivor sided but can we please acknowledge that a lot of the changes have gone too far in the opposite direction now? Playing survivor nowadays feels like a complete dice roll on whether or not you'll get anything actually usable.
Most of the modern maps (Nostromo, Greenville, Forgotten Ruins, etc.) are so boring to play on:
- They're huge and take ages to traverse for hook saves.
- They consistently spawn horrible 3-gens.
- Have weak main buildings.
- Lots of the pallets are SO unsafe that dropping them is a guaranteed hit unless you land a stun.
Not to mention that a lot of the old maps have been completely ruined by overzealous reworks. Take Cowshed for instance. Yes it was too strong for survivors and needed some changes, but they massively overcorrected and now this map has a high chance of giving you nothing to work with. Just played a match and EVERY single tile was one of those new ones they snuck in a few patches ago with a unsafe pallet and an okay window.
I know some people will probably doubt me so here's the proof:
And that's saying nothing of the huge deadzones some maps spawn. Looking at you Haddonfield…
I get there are maps out there that are bad for killers too, but I don't understand why we can't find a nice middleground. I feel like we're just flip-flopping between extremes here and it's miserable for everyone.
Comments
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Don't forget about the abundant amount of hooks throughout the map within spitting distance of one another making a wiggle out impossible even with perks to assist. Boil over, Flip Flop, Unbreakable, etc. Need every survivor to take a protection hit plus those perks to get free lol
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Yeah, the Coldwind-Maps got destroyed in various degrees. Some even before they added the new Tiles, e.g. Rancid Abattoir was really week before already. Cowshed was fine after the first Nerf, the Map was one of the most survivor-sided Maps in the game and after the general changes to the layouts, it was fair.
But adding those really unsafe Tiles on top of it was just too much. Those are Tiles where you NEED a stun in order to get value out of the Pallet, if the Killer is respecting it, you will get hit, no matter what. And IMO it was a big mistake to replace good and strong Tiles (or even completely fair tiles like T/L-Walls) with those new Tiles at a 1 to 1 basis.
If they want to add more unsafe Tiles and less safe ones - sure. But those should not weight the same amount like Jungle Gyms for example. IMO to each of the new Tiles they added, they should add another somewhat unsafe Pallet nearby which can be used.
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"Flip-flopping" perfectly describes the map situation
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Rancid Abattoir was really week before
Oh Rancid Abattoir is another level of bad. Weak main building, weak tiles, huge deadzones, very little connection between loops. The list just goes on lol. I hate getting that map nowadays.
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Flip-Flopping is a good description, not just of the map situation, but all aspects of the game. Going from one extreme to the other, like overnerfed to overbuffed or the other way around. And sometimes changes are even unnecessary (think of these horrible generator sounds that were similar to starting car engines, nobody asked for this).
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They really should work on map generation and their "loop money" system (if there is anything like that at all).
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I gave up with any sort of wiggle-out builds long ago. Like you said, there's hooks everywhere nowadays and killers can STILL vacuum towards hooks (which has been around since 2016), robbing you of wiggles that you really should've got.
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I hate new Coldwind loops so much. They are so weak and guaranteed hits all time. And maps don't have enough loops, most of map is big dead zone.
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I do feel they added a lot of loops that serve little to no purpose on many maps, as others have said maps such as the Coldwind maps have become very killer sided for the most part.
Also, they seem to have stealth nerfed survivors by putting random crap at loops that you get stuck on for no apparent reason.
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on8 -
what no. it had god loops windows and infinities in the main building. because it was an old map, it had only 3 classic tiles, Long-wall with single pallet, T-L wall and Jungle gym. 2/3 are god pallets with exactly 0 counter-play for a huge % of the killer-cast.
Since all the tiles were separate tiles. it wasn't unheard to just spawn 3 jungle gyms or combination long-wall and like 2 jungle gyms. no rules were preventing that.rancid also spawns cow loops which was free time waste window with the pallet but not only that, the way it spawns cow loop was that jungle gyms or T-L walls could face the cow loop window and directly link into each other with safe pallet to break bloodlust. Since than, cow loop has been slightly moved to not chain into things and window was nerfed. the pallet still remains a free kick distance pallet.
there was a reason why that map had an insane escape rate. in fact, all farm maps were completely over-tuned == of badham preschool. now they;re a bit more average.
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What are you talking about? I already acknowledged that these maps were too survivor sided back in the day.
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It’s funny, how I’ve been saying this, since I created my account here in the forums and everyone argued against me. Now those complains start to become more common, it just took a while.
Hadddonfield 2 is incoming with the badham rework, which I’m very certain will be in January.
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Fully made this thread with the expectation that I'd be laughed at to be honest. Normally when I say this people get mad about it lol but like it's true. I don't even see how it's something to argue over at this point when 1/2 of entire maps can spawn with nothing these days.
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There hasn't been a single rework that has been done in a decent way, it's really unbelievable how we can't reach a point of balance.
Especially the coldwinds have become unplayable, not to mention the crotus asylum that has been shadownerfied without any reason or warning lately.5 -
Thats the thing - we have reached a point where even the most biased Killer Mains would not even argue anymore, since they know that some maps have become way too weak.
Even tho, I would say that Haddonfield is the prime example and currently the most killer-sided Map. Every window is unsafe, huge deadzones, map is as big as a shoebox, but has a highway in the middle of the map which can spawn up to 3 Gens.
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BHVR probably realized that nerfing maps is easy way to nerf survivors. They don't have to worry about survivor meta if maps are super weak. I don't like this direction.
Badham and GoJ are the last survivorsided maps. They both already confirmed to get changes. And maybe the Game for last, it's bad map for m1 killers but most killers are doing just fine.
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The things is their map direction only leads to more problems and an even more unfun experience, because survivors adept to whatever behavior does. At first survivors started hiding → killers complained → Distortion nerf and now the only thing left is gen rushing, which you have to if you want to win. The game will eventually reach a point of no return, where players will leave if behavior continues that way.
The map “The game” is not even survivor sided, it is killer sided, if you don’t play dumb as killer. You only need to break some pallets and the whole map is a deadzone.
Badham is a very easy map in my killer matches. Most people just want easy wins and not balance. GOJ is also trash outside of the main building since its rework.
Badham will probably be the new haddonfield after next patch, because they are changing most things related to the nightmare dlc.
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I am fine with most maps except some Coldwind maps and Haddonfield (survivors).
Also still hate Eyrie of crows as killer.
But the newest map seems overall fine to me, except that cave without a hook…
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They don't want a middle ground they want maps to be more of a coinflip that leads to a random buff for one side or the other.
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why does the coin have 7 killer sides and 1 survivor side?
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Which map after changes become survivor sided?
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Ive seen a Thompson House spawn with 7 pallets total
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Well if the kill rate is supposed to be 60% then any map over 60% would be killer sided and any map under 60% would be survivor sided
if we plug that into nightlights stats there are 11 killer sided maps (above 60%) and 34 survivor sided maps (below 60%)
Technically 11 killer sides and 34 survivor sides and 1 really messed up coin.
https://nightlight.gg/maps/viewer?sort=kill&shown=pick%7Ckill%7Cdist&start_days=28
as for why it might feel heavily killer weighted, uhh solo queue vs swf and psychology of losing / winning.
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Probably none of them, most times maps change its because its way too far into the survivor side that its miserable to play on. Old rpd, old eerie of crows, many versions of Haddonfield ect. Doesn't mean that all reworked maps are overly killer sided all of a sudden though garden of joy got "reworked" but it still sits at a 53% kill rate
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none but to be fair most of the maps were survivor sided before hand. The amount of bad survival maps are starting to rack up though for sure. Bargo realm in general just seem to be lacking resources, coldwind very weak, Haddonfield is literally a meme tier map.
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Using a scewed definition of fair to say most maps are survivor sided is some supreme killer forum logic.
There are 2 survivor sided maps by those stats. One of which has a 20% chance of appearing with a map offering.
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If your definition of fair sits at a 50% kill rate that's fine but it doesn't align with the devs so unfortunately your outlook is the one thats skewed. Theres a reason that 1/3rd of the time you end up one eerie of crows its with an offering, its not because its "balanced" its because its heavily survivor sided when balanced for the devs intended kill rate.
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There has rarely been a good rework of a map. They just decide to do something and hope it works. They reworked Garden of Joy and it feels just at terrible as before. They completely destroyed Borgo and Haddonfield for survivors. The MacMillan and Autohaven realms were considered to be the golden standard for balancing but they still consider to touch them while Swamp is still a rotten corpse.
When it comes to map balancing they need to work on them for a longer time and just release test versions in the ptb3 -
You're making a great argument that maps are heavily killer sided (you're correct). When survivors have a choice of 2 maps that aren't killer-sided, don't expect a variety in offerings.
60% kill rate is not balanced and the game is stagnating the more its pushed.
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Look if we use 50% as the balancing point EVERY killer is overpowered except for chucky (by 0.1%) EVERY map is killer sided but except 2, and all but 13 killer perks are overpowered.
Very clearly thats not the balancing point the game right now and by no means should be used as the end all be all of judging balance at a glance. Don't take it up with me for just going off community info based on the numbers the devs want. Take it up with the devs.
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I hate forgotten ruins!
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No you're right, the RNG on some maps, particularly coldwind ones, is disgustingly terrible and full of deadzones. I made a post about it and despite asking for a discussion, it got moved to feedback and suggestions where it died.
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