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What is the appeal of WoO?
I don't understand where the enjoyment comes from using a perk that plays the game for you. It guides you to exactly where you need to go. Where is the fun when you don't need to think about your chases at all?
Comments
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Ok and where is the enjoyment using aura perks to find survivors for you? Why cant you find them yourself? same concept.
Post edited by buggybug at29 -
I have used WoO for few years simply to learn maps, but I took it out for a challenge few months ago and kinda never put it back, because I enjoy playing survivors a lot more without it.
I simply feel better whenever I get long chase now, kinda anyone can do it with WoO + Lithe/SB…1 -
That's the appeal. Brain off, low effort. Not everyone wants to test themselves and improve themselves. Some people just want to play, which is fair enough.
After arguing enough times over it, I now consider it a plus side for killers... it ensures your average survivor is at least halfway competent, which means you also have to be halfway competent to keep up with it.
Embrace WoO, while it rots the brain of the survivor, it helps develop the skills of killers.
If you ever feel mean, take Hex: Third Seal and Genetic Limits... it's amazing how many players crumble when they don't have WoO and post hit boost into Lithe to save them.
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Before you insult use your braincells. Killer have aura reading for everything survivors do and that takes no skill. no where to hide=kick a gen find survivor. Nurses=survivor healing no skill needed. Darkness reveal=open a locker no skill needed. Flood of rage =unhook show aura. Bitter murmur=complete gen. Predator =survivor ESCAPES a chase and now has their aura reveal, so they are punished for outplaying a killer. Need I go on? In other words you wanna talk about woo then aura reading is the same big crutch for killers and btw zanshin tatics exists, did you just purchase the game? go check perk guides then
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WoO makes chase kinda brainless, most killer aura reading simply get you to start a chase.
Chase is personally what I enjoy most, not really looking for rats. I think going full information build on killers is most fun for both sides, but just my opinion…
Closest thing to WoO on killer side would be using Predator on Nurse. I have played that few games and it was really boring…
I don't really think WoO needs a nerf or anything, but it makes game less fun at least for me.
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Actually I rarely use aura perks as killer.
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I think WoO should be a perk that is only available to you as a new player for the first few weeks, after that it should be removed from the perk list. You should be forced to learn the game at some point instead of using that is just short of an arrow of telling you exactly where to go in a chase. Thats why I dont get the appeal of it. At that point watch someone else play the game. You are taking away nearly half the thought process out.
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My casual friend uses it because they don’t play often so they don’t know the maps, so it helps them to know where the resources are when they get chased.
That does take away some of the skill involved (knowing where resources are), but you still have to play the tiles. Windows doesn’t make you a chase god automatically, if it did hell I would start using it asap.
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are you angry?
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Because it doesn't, it's strong for new players but it's really strong if you're solo and you don't know what your team has used already. The fact that you think it plays the game for you shows just how inexperienced you are at the game. If WoO annoys you it's because you're a new killer or just really bad at the game.
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The irony of their post when their name is a Moon Knight quote.
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I dont use it anyway so I dont care , all that yellow is annoying.
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I do not use it anyways so it dont matter me, but then we can say that for noed for killers.
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Killers need a scapegoat I guess on why they didn't 4K.
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"Where is the fun when you don't need to think about your chases at all?" Running into deadzones and dying isn't fun . Most survivors play this game because they like looping the killer and window help very much with that. Now i think looping without windows or exhaustion feel much more rewarding skill wise but that isn't easy to do. I ran windows for probably about 1000 hours before i learn every map back in 2022. These days it's even more maps with less resources.
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So in theory, I can put on Windows and just loop really well, even though I don't know how? No, of course not. It's information. How does that correlate to survivors having an unfair advantage? Because I don't see it. This just feels like when survivors say killers seeing aura is OP, full stop.
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Yeah lol and their perk suggestion for looping? they clearly just purchased the game 10mins ago or they just very high and angry with the world let them continue its giving me alot of giggles. Who the hell uses Alert, Open Handed + Kindred, Fogwise, Object of Obsession as chase perks lol. It is clear they do not know what they talking about.
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All he's saying is if survivors can find a window/pallet he can't get a 4k as much as he likes.
Post edited by SharonPancakes at4 -
I think the real question is, why do you care? If you don't like the perk, then don't use it. Why spend your time policing how other people have fun? Seems like a complete waste of time to me.
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Well, if you can't find them you don't get into looping.
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Survivor perks have to suck if WoO is considered a point of contention.
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Come on now, be fair, you both know exactly why WoO is disliked, it amplifies the problems of strong survivor maps for low to medium levels of play by facilitating a very uninteractive and boring style of play.
In a map with a large number of pallets, such as the Game or Hawkins, when you're playing a killer without a directly strong chase/cut off power, a WoO Survivor can take you on a long chase with just throw pallet and hold W to next pallet. It is brain dead, skillless, and yet annoyingly effective... there is a reason high level survivors rarely see lower tier killers, it's because they lack the power to efficiently answer survivors who know checkspots and all pallet/window spawns.
Now is it beatable? Yes of course, as I say, it's a boot camp for killers. However you do have to have good macro knowledge and know to drop chase into strong areas quickly, and/or have decently strong perks, and/or start playing quite mean and sweaty to claw back the early deficit this style of play can put you under. That's pretty much everyone's annoyance with WoO, an absolute scrub with literally no actual looping skill whatsoever can run pallet to pallet and burn loads of your time in the most uninteractive way possible. Yes if you have good slowdown perks to recoup that time, now you're laughing because all those resources are burnt, but if you don't, it's such a kick in the teeth.
At high level with strong killers that can out manoeuvre and cut off survivors, it's a none factor, but at low level, it's a nuisance... in fact I half suspect it's a contributor to why a number of maps have had half their pallet spawns ripped out.
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As you said at high level it's a non-factor, at low level survivors are at a huge disadvantage most matches. All WoO does is make inexperienced killers get better. If survivors can hold W and get to windows/pallets and win it's a skill issue on the killer side most of the time. Complaining about WoO is worse than complaining about noed, sure it feels like bullshit sometimes but it doesn't matter 99% of the matches.
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Why I am not surprised that you were the one to turn this into an "us vs them" thing…
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I use it because I don't play the game that often and I don't memorize where every single vault and window are. I don't have 18 hours a day to play this game that apparently some people in this thread do.
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I mean if people want to mock Survivors for using it then it's fair game to mock Killers for complaining about it.
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The amount of times I have had windows do anything for my opponents in a benefit, is eclipsed about a thousand times over by the amount of times some lithe brain goes to a dead window, or unsafe pallet.
Complaining about windows…
Sheesh…1 -
It's incredibly useful for solo survivor, especially in the current DBD era where survivors rarely play loops/pallets, they just pre-drop them without using any thought at all. With Windows as least you know a loop is dead and not to run there and in solo that is incredibly useful.
You also have to remember the vast majority of survivors are unskilled casuals and Windows helps them no end to at least have some chance.
I don't use Windows myself as I prefer other perks and I know maps/loops well enough to get by but even then it would still probably save me many downs as I don't know what resources are spent without it.
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What's the appeal? It give massive amounts of information. Not only does it show you what available pallets are around you, but it can also show you where chases are happening and where killers are.
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Knowing where pallets are doesn't suddenly make you a strong looper lol you're just making excuses. I don't use WoO, I look at what is available in my nearby environment, and even knowing then where pallets are I'm average at looping.
It's information, no different to many other perks that give auras/information on both sides. What matters is what you do with that info. The perk doesn't loop for you. There are many tiles where the killer can weaken the loop by moving in a certain direction, WoO is hardly going to help.
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It goes both ways, and I don't like it either way because it's never favorable to killer. Yes, if you just can't find them, there's no chase and therefore no way for you to get them, because the chase doesn't even start. Self-explanatory. At the same time, I feel like people way overrate mid-chase aura perks like I'm All Ears and Weave Attunement. Just because the killer can see you doesn't mean he gets you, especially with M1 killers, and especially with these survivors who check spot so well, they might as well have wall hacks.
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But what's wrong with looping the killer around the hook with Kindred? ... ... 😉
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The appeal comes from being able to know which pallets have been used and which haven't. And also, believe it or not, the game isn't all that accessible from a visual perspective on many maps. I don't want to play game where I lose because because the brown pallet blended into the environment, so I use a perk slot to highlight the pallets.
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This is the one argument I can never get with my fellow killer mains on. Of all the perks that straight-up deny killer gameplay, or dead-end all of the pressure that you had, y'all are complaining about Windows? I don't get it. I mean I can see where they're coming from, in that Windows "helps" with looping because it lets you plan your route, but what's that got to do with survivors' looping skill? It doesn't amplify their chase all of a sudden. They're only as good in chase... as they are.
I think killers are falling prey to the same bad logic survivors use, when they talk about this issue. Because most survivors say, "If anything gives killer any decent value or info, it's crazy OP strong!" That's what they do with Windows. It's an info perk, not a stun, not another health state, not a pick-up denial, not a bullying tool. It lets you see vaults and pallets, and while I don't consider it a learner perk like most do, I think it's really good for knowing the map you've been given - in real time. You don't know for sure if a pallet's already been broken or a window spawned on 1 side of main or the other, unless you pre-scouted it out (ain't nobody got time for that), or trust in your ability to make snap decisions when presented with an unexpected loop variation. It really boils down to killers hoping to go against survivors who lack game knowledge, which isn't skill, it's 1 person who knows what they're doing vs people who don't. I thought we were against that, because we wanted to be able to beat good opponents, and not just smurf?
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No, because if that's true, your issue is with the institution of looping, instead of the people who use it because they want to win. That's the same logic survivor mains use to decry tunneling. They don't hate the game state for forcing killers to go like that, but instead say, "You killers are scummy for tunneling, even though you have to!" I'm not upset with looping. It can be skillful. But I hate wasting an arbitrary amount of time at loops where the survivor's movements/decisions as well as mine are predetermined and not in my favor at all, which btw happens with or without Windows. So for you to get so mad about a perk which some argue is "a waste of a perk slot!" is a little ridiculous.
I guarantee you, countless survivors run Windows and it actually is a waste of a perk, because they equipped it after hearing it was a "top 10 survivor perk!", but they can't loop to save their lives. I just can't visualize what y'all are thinking, that a survivor who has no clue what they're doing all of a sudden takes full advantage of all their resources because they equipped a perk. That's the same logic they use to justify keeping killers weak, "Because if we give a buff/qol change to Ghost Face or Pinhead, their kill rate at bottom and mid MMR would skyrocket!" Except it wouldn't. Because the killer isn't playing optimally with their tools at that level just like the survivors aren't, just like when a scrub puts on Windows. I should know, because I auto-include Windows, and screw up easy chases all the time.
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Knowing where things are or are not is valuable information. Just imagine playing killer without gen auras highlighted constantly. Could you still play the game effectively by just relying on good ol’ map sense without seeing where to look for gens and where not to? Sure! Would it be much more difficult for some people? Absolutely! That’s the value of WoO.
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If it was up to you everything would be favorable to killers. That aside aura-reading in chase and out of chase are two different things. They were talking out of chase. Personally, I like Spies from the Shadows. Plenty of free hits for my little piggy.
Btw I don't think there is any point in being obsessed with 4-god-survivor-squads. Play some S-tier killer if you want to beat them. Accept you are playing from behind with everyone else. You wouldn't complain about dark age militias losing to knights in AoE2.
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I understand what you're saying, and agree WoO isnt strong, the perk isn't problem for most killers... and as I say, I've kinda come round to the side that WoO is actually a good thing, because it ensures weak survivors can actually stay alive to some degree and you as killer are always having to catch someone who can reach a tile, rather than catching someone just cause they got caught in deadzone...
But having that viewpoint doesnt mean that I don't understand the annoyance of this perk for the weaker chase killers who rely on mind games. My personal gripe with it is actually from the survivor side... because I like to create different builds with as many different perks as poasible in DBD, and WoO is permanently on my ban list, cause it causes bad habits and using it prevents you growing past the perk.
Though its popular to decry it, MMR does actually work most of the time (at least if you're low to mid, which is where I think I am), and if you follow the bloodpoint bonus. With individual killer MMR, the survivors you'll face on Blight will be higher MMR than the ones you'll face on Pig after youve played both a while, and yet Pig has a higher killrate in the stats. This is where the issue is... Pig doesn't tend to appear in high level matches because there comes a point where survivors can just handle you... your mind games don't work and your power lacks the potency to force a hit.
If you faced Blight level players as Pig... it's very hard to compete because your ambush needs survivors to stay at the loop and play the tile to do anything. Survivors are usually skilled enough that even without WoO, can and will instead throw pallet and run away... because this is effective against Pig. They have the skills and knowledge to know where they're going and what the spawns are, and don't give a chance to use your power. This is just what it means to play Pig, you go in knowing that a bad map against good survivors will likely ruin your day.
As these kinds of killers, a survivor just running pallet to pallet prevents using your powers and wastes so much of your time with little you can do to stop it. You don't get to mind game, cause they never stay on the tile, they hold W away. The thing is WoO allows low MMR players to do exactly the same, so if you're playing a killer that isn't a high tier, the problems those lower tier killers face against high tier survivors become a reality in low tier games as well…
As I say, that's not necessarily a bad thing... it ensures that when you're playing that killer can see what the upper bound of your killer is, and then affords you the ability to try and create builds and strategies to shore up this weakness as much as you can. If you ever do make it to a higher player game as a weak killer, you're gonna need to have an answer to this playstyle, cause its gonna happen without WoO... so even if it does suck and encourage bad survivor habits, it is better for WoO to stay as is...
However it serves the discussion to understand the argument and frustration on WoO, and to claim there is no issue with it at all is false. It's the same issue as Lightborn. It's not good, and is laughable at high MMR that this perk is a problem, but like WoO it's just kinda lame that it's in the game.
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I feel like WoO is wonderful for newer players, SoloQ, or when we get a new map in a new realm. It allows people to learn the map and get used to the newer tiles, especially now that we're getting more diverse tiles in general. It's no longer junglegym, 4-wall, or L/Z. A great example of that is the Nostramos map, which has some very unusual tiles.
For SoloQ it's an informative perk. Not only do you get to see where a window/pallet/breakable wall is, you can see which pallets your teammates have already dropped, and if you're close enough you can see where a teammate in being chased (that is if they're dropping pallets). Which is great imo.
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It reduces the chances of me getting screwed by RNG. That's the main appeal. That and know what resources were used. Even in a swf, my friends aren't sweaty tryhards and don't announce every pallet they've dropped.
I never used this perk too often but anything that eliminates bad luck is going to be appealing, especially when survivor perks aren't exactly all that crazy barring a few.
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Lmao
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It makes the hardest part of the game much easier for newer people. If you want to learn loops and pallet spawns, WoO is a must.. It's that simple. It isn't hurting anything.
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I like using WoO when I just want to turn my brain off and pre drop pallets and do some gens. The type of game that you just want to hear a podcast and not worry about doing anything complex.
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So you just like the enjoyment in not knowing where pallets are still up after several minutes of other players being chased and end up dying in a dead zone? And this has nothing to do with thinking. #Its quite sad that people still dont understand the real value of WoO after having this discussed for a billion of times.
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