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Something needs to be done about the "Go next" epidemic
Comments
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Toba is a large map with a LOT of clutter. Main building is good, it has good pallets and windows, and Shack is easily accessible. It's something I would call Survivor leaning, but I do think it still favors them.
Nostromo spawns better loops than Toba, is just as large but has a worse main and no Shack. Again, I'd call it leaning.
Thompson House has managed to retain its ability to spawn jungle gym chains to Shack, which I am weighting heavily because that's pretty ridiculous.
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I do, and i'm asking them to fix it.
The game also falls apart for a killer if they make a tiny mistake too, maybe one chase that goes just a little bit too long. This game is a snowball fest on both sides.
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Those types of things only happen because the survivors let it happen. Think about the endgame in those scenarios where you "have a comeback" is it because you have 1 guy on the hook and the other 3 try to save them? If those 3 would "just leave"™ then it would be a loss for you.
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If you cannot win 2 gens or even three in 3v1 with no hookstage on that 3, than it is skill issue. If I can win it many times as a killer main playing survivor, then it is winnable in most time.
Also, that map list is pretty weird. Especially The Game part when you play an M1 killer.
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How did I exaggerate?
You were the one that said you wanted to "give them a weekend from DBD" for "…blowing up your gens, throwing all the pallets…"
You want to ban people for missing skill checks and throwing pallets unnecessarily. Yikes.
You could try to make it so that the game doesn't end after a single mistake. That'd be something. It'll take a while, since people have learned and had it beat into them that going down means you will get tunneled out, but it's possible to change it.
The alternative, banning people for not being up to snuff, is not an option.
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The reason they keep creating anti-loop killers is because when they TRIED to create killers that had powers around map control everyone complained. Look at sadako, look at knight, look at skull merchant. These were killers where their power was bad at a loop, but it gave them great map control and macro gameplay. And what happened? Everyone complained and complained, and now we have a bad sadako who has a bad chase power and a mediocre map control teleport and mediocre slowdown. We have a knight who can't use his power in chase anymore, and the guards are a joke and can't hit anything on their own, and we have a skull merchant who was intentionally nerfed to being the worst killer in the game so they can revisit her in 2 years.
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I do agree that early game is a bit too impactful on both sides. The game is basically decided at the end of the first chase. If the first survivor goes down before a gen gets done, the game is probably over for the survivors, especially when there is slowdown perks in place. If the survivors finish 2-3 gens before the killer gets their down, the killer is probably gonna lose.
This would be mitigated if they just slowed the early game down, and sped the late game up, and then reworked the killer slowdown perks to do something else and buff the killer basekit regression so its all more normalized instead of people bursty on both sides.
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I agree with this 100%. Everyone seems to want to treat the survivor role like everyone is just a solo player and not part of a team. They want the game to be balanced in the 1v1, but forget that for that to be true, it would inherently be unbalanced in the 1v4. By DESIGN asymmetrical games should always favor the 1 (or less) players, because with less players, they don't have to work as a team. If your team is bad, you should lose, and that is the point.
If people want 1v1, then they should be a 1v1 queue where its like a 1v1 chase and leave the team game to the teams.
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that is not what Daniel talking about. He is talking about when last gen pops, a lot of killer go into defensive mode and camp hooks. in like first 20-30 seconds, i play super aggressive and sometimes turn 1vs4 into 3 kills by super aggressive hooking. sometimes slugging when need be. it is super risk strategy but sometimes i win by playing aggressive in the end game.
this isn't me running end game perks either like no way out or remember me either. it is just default.
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Yeah, no.
The onus is on the Killer to screw up. If they do, the Survivors have a chance. If the Killer does not, they cannot win.
The Game is a litmus test. Yes, it has a lot of pallets, but it's also tiny, with zero gen spread and zero LoS for Survivors. It's a Killer-sided map
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There is no way you can say that pallet city (The game) is killer sided. Half the pallets in that map are 100% safe pallets or god pallets that must be broken. There is no way you think that chapel is fine with that broken ass main building. Lery's is killer specific, so is hawkins and so is RPD and cowshed is killer sided?
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How about buffing survivors? Buff the loops, buff the survivor perks. Buff anything that can benefit survivors. This is the only way to bring back players.
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Would love to see some video footage of what you are talking about. You cannot physically walk across the map fast enough before they can open the gate, and once the gate is open a speed boost from anywhere gives them a free out.
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It's a tiny map with tight gens and no LoS on the Killer. It has consistently had a 60% KR on NightLight.
Chapel is fine. The building is fine, kick the walls.
Lery's has garbage pallets, no LoS for Survivors and can have tight three gens. But yes, Nurse or Blight or Billy will have an issue there.
Hawkins has some of the worst pallets in the game.
RPD also has some abysmal pallets and few loops of any quality.
Cowshed spawns like, 3 pallets now and doesn't spawn gyms. The main building is basically useless, Shack is on an island and there's massive deadzones everywhere.
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Bhvr need to buff Survivors. Why can't you understand?
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EDIT:
nevermind, obvious troll account.
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Thompson also tends to spawn 5 gens on main side so killers have zero reason to go anywhere near shack. I wouldnt call any of the coldwinds better than neutral after the recent crap tile replaced most of the jungle gym spawns.
Toba spawns tons of dead zones at both ends of the map (where most of the gens are) making it very easy to zone and guarantee hits.
Nostromo might as well be a Walmart parking lot with how big and empty it is.
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Are you serious? You must be out of your mind to say something like this.
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Sure bestie, and people want to give up, demand fast bleedout option and are non-stop asking bhvr to do something with slugging and tunneling because they are just bored 🥰
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Its fine, i edited, not going to bother responding to a troll account. I'd like to stay on topic with the thread anyway.
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i am usually doing that before exit gates are open but sometimes you can continue down people even when exit gates are open and survivors get caught up in picking people up and healing. I am not saying this is good strategy or that it works vs elite survivors but i sometimes win by playing this way.
your right. it shouldn't work in practice but i make it work.
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You're calling me a troll because you're dead wrong. Your argument is invalid.
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Well thats my point, if 4 survivors are up it is not physically possible for you to pressure both gates enough to keep them closed, and once they are open if the survivor is healed, or has endurance, it is a 100% free escape from nearly anywhere on the map other than the opposite corner from the free speed boost they get.
I should note that the exception here is an endgame build. Like, if you are running no way out, and remember me and such that changes the math. But as you stated you aren't running endgame builds.
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But people already responded to you.
You don't want people to give up? Buff Survivors.
BHVR could see stats of the matches and see when people are giving up.
- If a lot of people give up/DC while playing against certain killers, do something about them
- If a lot of people give up/DC while playing against certain perks, do something about them
- If a lot of people give up/DC after some kind of situations, do something about that.
It's that simple, like… really.
Oh, this Steve loaded to match, was immediately hooked by Blight on lethal, then was tunneled and hooked again, then gave up on 4 gens left. Must be something with Survivor Entitlement™.
BHVR should just gather data about matches and analyze them to have some feedback.
Maybe then they won't have to beg to vote for DBD in some kind of Steam award and playercount would go up.
—Or we could just ban a lot of people because they give up, but that way they won't spend their money on DLC and skins.7 -
Please stay on topic, i'm not turning this thread into an "us vs them" I already blocked the troll account, please don't turn this thread into something its not.
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Please stay on topic.
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i don't pressure gates. I am pressuring survivors. all i am saying is that you can get a lot more hooks in end game than you think you can.
i don't think there is any killer sided maps. the maps that are killer sided look neutral to me while neutral maps are survivor sided. hawkin is a lot stronger than you think it is. i don't think the loops are favor for killer on that map. a good looper can waste a lot of time on that map.
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I think we are talking a past each other here. Yes, you pressure survivors, so ok lets say 4 survivors are up, and 1 guy is on the hook right now. Ok, so you say you don't camp that survivor on the hook, and instead start going after the other survivors. A chase starts, lets say that the chase even lasts 10 seconds because it was super quick and they made a mistake. You pick that survivor up, walk to a hook, hook them. Or maybe you even slug them lets say.
It takes 20 seconds to open a gate. Even if you are slugging the survivor, it is not physically possible for you to walk to another part of the map to "pressure another survivor" probably not even on a blight, before they have the gates opened, and at that point again, if they have endurance, or are healthy, it is a free escape unless they are in the opposite corner of the map.
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i am not disagree with analytics, it should be free escape but sometimes i manage to kill hook and down survivors. bring a game to 3vs1 and kill 1 with 1 slug where i win with 3k even with accomplishing a 99% gate.
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Survivors have a really strange tendency to quit as soon as they get outplayed, even though the game is heavily on their side. I lost count of the times where I down a survivor twice in a row, and they immediately quit even though there are only 2 gens left. They are in advantage, but since they see the game as an 1v1 it doesn't really matter.
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Then you are either insanely biased or haven't played DBD, respectfully.
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or maybe i do not believe that survivor are "this weak".
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I'd be 100% on board for "stuck it out" bonuses. Especially if tunneled...
Would also be nice to see the props system start resulting in monthly rewards, with categories for:
- Not giving up
- Fun to play against
- Played well
- Friendly/Entertaining
If tunneled player keeps trying and doesn't just roll over/give up, survivors and killers can give a player props so even if they don't make it out alive, they get a nice bonus at end of season. If a survivor runs a killer for 3 gens the killer can give props for played well, while the survivor can give props for Not Giving Up.
You get the idea... if you gave notifications whenever anyone gives you props, it's a natural incentive to play more engaging playstyles.
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So how do you explain that most times you see a TheGame offering being thrown its the kilelrs offering? Cause its super easy to win on this maps with preparing in before.
Back to topic: Devs will never do anything about this, cause this would mean they 1) understood the underlying issues; 2) have ways to force toxic players to be of help and 3) have ways to force players with no mentality to be helpful. At least the last two are basically impossible to solve. And the first one will never be solved by bhvr cause they werent able to understand their own game for like 5 years.
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That’s basically a dead zone. Most of the killers Characters don’t even have to engage you on those tiles, they just use their power. Even supposed “god pallet” loops aren’t safe against a lot of the op anti-loop powers.
The problem is that they gutted healing, then nerved a bunch of the maps, and then created killer characters that had counter powers to the things that they already nerfed.
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No, it's pretty clear you think the game is Survivor sided, somehow.
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it is. the go next mentality is survivor entitlement.
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did you ignore the "90% of give uppers will continue to play when you save them" part?
You cant stop people from throwing the game
Just because you think people would throw anyway doesn't mean that steps shouldn't be taken to make it as hard as possible
removing the 4% will literally solve the most common type of rage quit the impulse one
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What, are we twelve?
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Unfortunately, you are factually wrong.
Even at its "most survivor-sided" the Killers still kill more than half of the team.
Feel free to keep deluding yourself from the truth. Killers are the power role, just like people wanted. Now we have to live with the consequences, and people who still think they need more buffs.
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the thing is. my escape rate on survivor does not correlate to these numbers. i escape way more than these numbers show. most of the killers that aren't the tiptop killer player are free escapes. only the very good killers pose any threat and even when killer is threat, it's not guaranteed loss.
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worst map list ever
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anything else to add?
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"I escape all of my matches, so that means the game is Survivor-sided"
brother, when I played, I would consistently go months without dropping a match when I played serious. Nobody cared, because I'm one dude and there's millions of other players.
The balance for one does not equal the balance for many.
Just because I won almost all of my games with Legion doesn't mean that Legion is extremely OP
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Something that really bothers me is that the Devs say DBD is not a competitive game but they adjust it as one. A non-competitive game is fun bc everything is busted. But with a competitive game everything is made to be equal in a sense. (If that makes sense. I agree it’s leaning competitive.)
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Yup and you still see people go an say "just remove the DC penalty so I can give my team a bot" acting like a bot isn't already just as bad of a hinderance to the team.
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That is probably old information. Non-competitive "party" games do not use MMR. I don't think DBD was ever a party game, but even if it was, that died when MMR became the standard.
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Very true
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Oh sorry well good luck trying to get something that wont happen, they are not going to remove the 4% because there achievements/trophies for them.
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The balance for one does not equal the balance for many.
explain in detail what you mean by this statement. Are you saying we should balance the game around worse survivor players so worse survivor players escape?
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