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The Nemesis adapation is inaccurate
This thread mainly is about the pain point issues that I have with the 2021 Resident Evil chapter killer The Nemesis. I don't know how I feel about this killer. I played Resident Evil 3: Nemesis when I was younger and the remake. I remember how scared I was when I first time faced Nemesis. I just don't think Nemesis is the same that I used to go against him in the RE games. The zombies in Dead by Daylight are significantly different compared to the zombies from Resident Evil 3. Why? Resident Evil 3 zombies have more animations, they can crawl, they can climb on low surfaces, there usually be more than 2, they can grab and they were so much more scarier looking.
Dead by Daylight zombies are just plain looking and their movement are not fluid and more static. Everything feels wrong about them. If there were to be more zombies then I believe survivors should have more tools to deal with them.
Another problem I have with the zombies in Dead by Daylight is how often they get stuck against something. I usually have to go there and give them a love tap with my fist or tentacle so they can respawn only for them to inevitably get stuck again.
Now about the Nemesis. Nemesis is smaller. I know the reason for it is because he would clip through doors and stuff. I know Nemesis used to get stuck in the basement because of his height so this is probably unavoidable but something is just off about him. I used to remember how fast he is since he is the pursuer. In Dead by Daylight however, he's quite slow. I know there are balance reasons for it but why can't he have like a sprint ability that isn't overpowered?
He also used the most iconic weapon a lot of the time mainly the rocket launcher. I know how strange it would be to see a rocket launcher in Dead by Daylight and I'm probably not the first nor the last person asking for this but I'm sure there is a reasonable way to balance it without breaking the game. It would be cool to have the rocket launcher as a Mori animation as well. I know Nemesis was very agile and moved around with his tentacle a lot. That's also not in Dead by Daylight. All he has going for him is slapping with his noodle and it's pretty unimpressive from a killer standpoint. I don't feel like I'm playing THE Nemesis but more like his long distant cousin.
The other thing I miss about Nemesis is that he goes berserk and scream so loud, enough to stun anyone around them. Now it would be funny if that were to be added in his sprint ability as a startup for his sprint so survivors know you're screwed. Anyone near him though would go deaf and slow down their speed for a short duration. This could be possibly mitigated if you consume the herbs.
Of course if all these were added in, they should give survivors more options to defend themselves. There were knives, hand grenades, herbs and flash grenades in Resident Evil 3. I know there is a flash grenade perk but I think it's best if there were at least items around for survivors that don't own Leon S. Kennedy or didn't buy the perk from the Shrine of Secrets.
Now the most positive things I have to say is the music is spot on. It's an absolute banger in Dead by Daylight. I never get enough of it. I could listen to them all day long lobby or chase and I'll never get bored listening to it. The textures, model, and SFX (movement, breathing, etc) of the Nemesis is good, an the voice acting for the zombies are also good.
Are my opinions wrong? What'd you think of this chapter intergrated to Dead by Daylight?
Comments
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Sorry for the long post. My first post is gone for some reason. I assume I edited it way too much. My apologies.
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I feel like they could of done better. Visually he's fine, but I feel like his animations are too stiff... RE3Make depicts Nemesis to have a very wide, powerful and menacing posture when close up. In DbD he feels very... snappy.
The sound design is pretty good except for his voice... its missing the slight, almost metallic aspect to it.
As for the chapter I think they did great, RPD as much as the map was a bit tough to play on, it was still the most faithful map to date. Leon and Jill also brought some amazing perks and also look great and pretty faithful to the source material. But then we get to Nemesis.. most importantly his power.. and I feel like they needed to rush it because of how ambitious they were with the whole thing. Nemesis simply does not feel like Nemesis. If you played RE3make you know Nemesis is more than this slow tyrant with a pool noodle.
Nemesis is supposed to be an upgrade to another Tyrant, Mr. X. The main differences being higher agility, intelligence, and the abilities to use tools and weapons, and none of that is depicted in his power.
I hope that one day he is revisited to be more faithful, but for now we'll have to settle with his little cousin, Adversary.
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EDIT: Wrote this for the first version of the post and it disappeared as I was hitting enter, hence responding to the original title being phrased as a question, lol.
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: The zombies could do with being a little more authentic, I do think they maybe aren't that evocative of the zombies from RE3R. I've put up a pitch myself before about a way of altering them to be more evocative of their source material and a little more interesting for both sides to play around, but as it stands, they're only "fine".
As for Nemesis himself, I've thought about it a lot and my position is that he is authentic, he just isn't necessarily what people would want out of a Nemesis adaptation.
If we look at his source material - 2020's RE3 Remake specifically - then we see that there are a few directions BHVR could've gone to adapt him. In my opinion, the four big elements you'd be looking at would be the sprint + the leap, the tentacle, the heavy weaponry segments, and the infection/mutation.
If we were to put ourselves in the shoes of adapting him to DBD, the first step is to eliminate the things that are simply not possible. The leap, the huge hulking mutated forms, and the heavy weaponry are all out; the leap just wouldn't work from a map design perspective, the mutated forms would be too complicated for one power and wouldn't fit in the maps, and the heavy weaponry is both tonally off and frankly not really that big of an element of Nemesis to begin with.
That leaves us with the sprint, the tentacle, and the infection, plus the concept of mutation even if we can't use the mutated forms.
A killer having all of these things (plus zombies, which was an interesting design decision on BHVR's part) would be questionable, so that leaves us narrowing things down further. The sprint is doable, a lot of killers have some kind of sprint/leap/dash ability… but a lot of killers have some kind of sprint/leap/dash ability. It gets samey after a while, and Nemesis wouldn't stand out. Instead, leaning into the tentacle is a good idea, especially since in RE3R that thing is present in basically every Nemesis segment, it's a big part of his identity.
So what should it do? Let's look at how it functions in RE3's lore. Nemesis is an adapting hunter, one who specifically alters himself and his tactics to suit whatever environment he's in. I don't think it's a huge leap to suggest that the way he'd adapt from just lumbering after people with his tentacle out if he were in DBD's trials would be to target the survivor's resources. Because the entity ensures slabs of wood get in his way, he breaks them. Because survivors use windows to make distance and block his path, he adapts to be able to hit past them. Because those things work, he adapts to make them stronger, move faster, hit further. He doesn't really need to adapt beyond that point because it's already working for him.
BHVR decided to implement those through the mutation system, as well, with some adjustments here and there for balance. A deviation, sure, but a minor one.
That's not to say what BHVR did was the only authentic way of adapting the Nemesis (after all, his tentacle in RE3R is primarily a way of dragging Jill towards him and that definitely could've worked), but I would argue it absolutely is an authentic way of adapting him. He hits notes that are one to one with his source material when viewed through the lens of adaptation, even if they aren't one to one on a literal level.
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A Rocket Launcher would be hell in terms of gameplay and it's balance and would stand out like a sore thumb thematically as regular weapons don't fit, same goes for any offense weaponry for Survivor. (and no, Deathslinger's gun is not the same, as it was designed specifically for the gameplay loop instead of being just a regular gun.)
At most you could give Nemsis his sprint as well as more zombies, but a Rocket Launcher is a can of worms that should never be opened no matter what.
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Agreed. Also, I find it kind of strange that the zombies can block the Nemesis. In Resident Evil, he flings them away like they're nothing even killing them in the process.
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Sorry for that. I assume my post got deleted because I edited it too often than I should.
I understand your reasoning and most of it is logical however, I think it's possible for him to have certain abilities and a single weaponry added to the game which can be balanced and still remain accurate to the source. Yes, he's an adapting hunter but he's also intelligent and he can use firearms to his advantage. No other Tyrant were capable of doing that thanks to the Ne-α parasite. I could argue that he can possibly have multiple abilities because we have killers like Vecna and Dracula for instance. Although, I do find it more reasonable if there would be a weapon supply case somewhere on the map that drops in a certain time frame which the Nemesis could go and access at any time. He could be able to carry it around just like he did in the Remake but for him to able to access it, he must drop it somewhere in a open area so he can grab the rocket launcher from the weapon case. Everything else is up to the balance team to decide but I believe it can be done.
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I did think about Dracula when I was thinking about the multiple forms point, but I would argue that it's kinda similar to the leap- you could make either work, but the concessions you'd have to make in order for it to function within the game's framework would make it just not feel like what you see in the game at all.
You could code in a "leap" power that's just a teleport with a jump animation, with specific areas you can and can't use it, but that just wouldn't feel like. You could give Nemesis some mutated forms as transformations like Dracula, but the way that functions for Dracula isn't right for Nemesis and just wouldn't feel right, in my opinion.
As for the weapons, no mechanical implementation would solve them being wildly wrong for the tone of the game. I could see them being used in a mori, but not the game itself. It's just too far away from the rest of the game.
Besides, I would argue the weapons really aren't that important for him. He only even has a weapon in two segments, one of which is just a scripted chase segment, and it's not even the same weapon both times. There's no reason to assume he has to have those in an adaptation, even if other adaptations like Re:Verse and Marvel vs Capcom 3 can afford to go for the memorable thing tonally.
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The rocket launcher shouldn't be too hard to balance it. For example, what if the rocket launcher can instantly down a survivor through a direct hit? It requires skill to use this weapon and it's a one time use. If you don't, it can still do significant damage in a blast radius. Maybe injure and deep wound the survivor in a certain range? It could have like the Re3 Remake signature with the laser which takes time before Nemesis can fire his rocket launcher. There is also a rocket trajectory and velocity involved.
I'm just pitching ideas here.
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All adaptations are inaccurate. They are taking a character with its own lore and rules and trying to make it work within the lore and rules already established by DbD.
Zombies - I've always thought these are fine. Once you get the hang of the first few resident evil games, the zombies are just an annoyance, to run around and save your ammo for more dangerous targets.
More animations would be neat, but the kind of thing that would really only make an impact for a few days.
More zombies would be nice, but technical problems prevented it. I'd be quite happy to see more zombies if they are able to.
Rocket Launcher - For the longest time I thought this was more of a joke before I realized people actually wanted it.
It wouldn't fit, nor would really most other modern weaponry. On graphics, gameplay, and balance it all brings up incredible problems.
If BHVR's other game like this, Deathgarden, had worked, your version of Nemesis would have fit in very well there.
Killers with More Powers - If they were implementing RE chapters right now, I suspect they would be quite different. BHVR has gotten more creative in their killers and map play. You probably would have maps with iconic RE items that the survivors could pick up. But the game has come a long way since the RE chapters on design, and Nemesis is highly unlikely to get a total rebuild like that being lots of people enjoy him as he is.
As a fan of the of the early resident evil games, I really like the RE chapters. It reminds me of playing against those things or in those areas. Is it the same? No, and its not meant to be. Its an homage to RE in a very different game.
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It would be a nightmare to balance gameplay wise.
Things like quantity of rocket ammunition that can be carried, the speed of which the rockets themselves travels when fired, the blast radius itself and how much it damages Survivors, etc. Way i see it, you'll end up with the following.
- Rockets would be either too fast or too slow with no inbetween and with a blast zone that is either too big or too small with no inbetween either.
- Blast damage that would either make the weapon itself way too strong if the Survivors cannot see the impact zone from the rocket blast or make the weapon itself be way too situational or useless if they can see the impact zone.
- If Nemesis had to aim for a while before being able to fire, then it would just feel awful to use.
- If the weapon is strong, it will dominate on all maps. it the weapon is situational, it will only dominate on indoor map's tight pathways.
- Even if it only had one Rocket that insta-downed, it would still either feel too strong or too situational to play against depending on the speed of the rocket.
It would very much be hard to balance because it is not just something that can simply be balanced the same way one can balance such a weapon in a RE game, as Survivor gameplay in DBD is not designed to support it since the mechanics required to make it fair are not there to justify it's existence in DBD.
Even if they were to add some kind of mechanic that allows Survivors to dodge a rocket, it would create another balancing problem as only special weapons gets tied to killer kits, where as any movement mechanics gets tied to Survivor perks, which again begs the question of how would it affect every other Killer powers and how to make sure it wouldn't just turn into old Dead Hard invincibility 2.0.
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The leap and mutations I do agree they shouldn't be in the game. The rocket launcher is the most memorable thing about him. I cannot see Nemesis without a rocket launcher. That's just me though.
I still believe he should have a rocket launcher, a sprint ability with him going berserk + yell as a startup, new moris, zombies and new sound effects.
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I agree. Nemesis is easily BHVR's biggest fumble. He feels nothing like what someone who is familiar with the Resident Evil franchise would want/expect..
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Maybe i am actually in the minority here, but i would totally remove zombies from the game if that means he could get an expanded kit.
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Trueee. I think the damage has already been done. So many players from Resident Evil games has left dbd already and they walked away with disappointment. A shame really because 2021 had the highest playercount in dbd history.
If they were deciding to rework him, it must be substantial.
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Lol I completely forgot that he could do that. Nemesis is nothing alike. Such a shame.
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You're trying way too hard to find an excuse not to add in a rocket launcher for nemesis. Have you actually forgotten we have turrets that are flamethrowers, drones and a harpoon gun? Don't be silly.
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Deathslinger's gun was specifically designed with the gameplay loop in mind and is not a regular gun.
The Flame Turrets are solely a defensive weapon that cannot be used for offense, same applies with any of the mine perks and the flashbang grenade perk for Survivors.
I don't know why you bring up Drones when they're completely irrelevant to the discussion and isn't even remotely within the same nature as handheld weaponry of any kind.
Their existence does not justify adding a rocket launcher to the game as they're not even remotely on the same level as it.
It along with any regular guns simply does not belong in a game like DBD no matter what.
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Thanks for proving my point.
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Only point i've proven is the fact that you don't even have any actual rebuttal to my arguments.
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Try harder sorry I mean cry harder.
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It's really just two logical steps then a conclusion, it's not particularly hard.
The rocket launcher would be tonally a massive departure → the rocket launcher isn't even all that important for Nemesis, he only has it in on setpiece → it's way better and more authentic to focus on the stuff that translates better.
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I accept your concession.
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Rocket launcher > your comment
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Nemesis is the 2nd most boring use of an ip in dbd. There could of been so much more done and different. The most boring ip use to me is the xenomorph and both them and nemesis have a similar boring power. Im a huge fan of re3 from the ps1 and seeing him here and being so meh sucks. A sprint option should have been incorporated to his kit. Weak killers like myers are more fun to play since you actually feel like the character
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An authentic, non-biased post who is a fan of one of Capcom's games. I agree wholeheartedly and I hope he gets the recognition that he deserves.
This is something I have discussed with my friends from the past and how the nemesis is nothing alike from the re series. We still agree on this to this day that he needs a full rework.
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You're absolutely right that this IP is boring and nothing like the nemesis from the re franchise. It's a direct slap to the face to Capcom with this abomination of a killer.
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