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Here's how I would fix the Go Next Problem
It's not exactly much of a secret that DBD matches frequently have one person who has zero intention of actually playing the game, matches get ruined by one ######### with a chip on his shoulder who either get found first, don't like the killer, don't like the perks, don't like the fact that their teammates weren't on gens for 0.5 seconds, I could keep going. It's honestly one of the reasons why I take extended breaks from DBD if a Event or Tome isn't open, playing a regular match of DBD just isn't worth dealing with people who quit at their earliest convenience or otherwise try to make the game miserable for everybody but themselves.
I've done some thinking on it, and I've come to three conclusions.
One. People who quit simply don't enjoy 90% of DBD's content and still stick around, this is something I have seen people complain about a lot, "X thing isn't fun", "X thing is broken" "X thing is overpowered", etc etc etc. To those people, a very simple message has to be told to them, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO NOT PLAY A GAME YOU DO NOT ENJOY ANYMORE. It is quite literally that easy, if you do not like the majority of a game's content and do not like most of your matches, ######### stop playing, uninstall, and play something else, it is not that hard to do, there is no shortage of incredible games nowadays to spend your time on, play one of those instead of ruining the match for everyone involved.
Two. People who quit do it when whatever stupid strategy they're using doesn't work, I get it, a killer bringing Lightborn completely counters your stupid BGP/Flashbang combo that the devs still haven't fixed because Flashbang is still dead silent and able to blind people staring at a wall while the flashbang is behind them, I get it. Guess what? Tough #########, that's part of playing DBD, running a single strategy every game gets boring anyway, run some other perks and experiment with the like 200 perks you can use, you might find something you like that a Youtuber didn't show you.
And then finally the big one, Conclusion Three. Survivors have very little reason to actually stay in a match, and a gigantic part of the problem is the MMR System. Shocker I know, but MMR is a much bigger problem in relation to giving up beyond the obvious of getting stuck with teammates that aren't very good because you get tunnelled and camped or whatever, the actual problem is a simple lack of incentive, if a survivor isn't having fun, they have zero real reason to keep playing out that match, survivor BP gain is pathetic compared to killer BP gains, and their MMR would go down either way, so why stay in a match they think they're guaranteed to lose if they get punished either way and only get like 5k extra BP for staying?
And on that subject, here's how I would fix things.
- Remove Self-Unhooking, just straight up get rid of it if you don't have Deliverance, Wicked, or get the Anti-Facecamp metre, this mechanic on its own has been ruining matches since the game released, it is a fundamentally ######### mechanic that either lets people delete themselves from the game sooner or completely negate a killer's pressure through a dice roll, get rid of this bullshit.
- Change how Survivors get BP, escaping chases should give Survival points, teammates completing gens while you get chased should give the guy getting chased Objective point, the people doing gens while their friend is getting chased should give Boldness, etc. One of the biggest problems is survivors not getting rewarded for actually working as a team, so reward them for playing as a team.
- Add post-match Accolades, do you know how many people would stay in a match if they get a shiny badge that says "Congrats you got Chased for X minutes"? I know I would, and, even better, have them be tracked, let people show off their longest chases, time spent on Gens, times healed, anything, give people a small ego boost every so often, come on.
- And then finally, Fix the ######### MMR System and add more ways to increase it, simply escaping or dying affecting MMR is bullshit and just incentives selfish behaviour, increase MMR if you stay in chase for long, heal your teammates frequently, doing gens and totems, SOMETHING. Adding this stupid system to a game the devs have repeatedly state is a casual party game was already a bad idea in concept, but making one this ######### basic and garbage somehow managed to make the game significantly worse. Please, BHVR, do SOMETHING to fix this mess I beg of you.
Rant over
G'night
Comments
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Where I agree:
Solution 1 - I think that would be an improvement.
Solution 2 - also think that's a good idea. I'd add that just being left on the hook while survivors pound gens should be shared more as a team reward.
Solution 3 - I don't think this would actually change anything about players giving up, but I just think it would be neat.
Where I kind of agree
Complaints 1 and 2 - As a player that's easy to say, but not much that a company can do about it. I highly doubt we're ever going to get an in game pop up encouraging players to leave the game.
Where I disagree
MMR - I know its a frequent complaint, but in the long run the problem isn't how MMR is awarded. The games where you get really amazing chases, but die, are going to be lost in the long term data.
A win condition is really the only way you can do MMR. It needs to go up and down in the same increments.
Now MMR maybe should be team based for the survivors (though that's a level of change I don't think BHVR wants to make), and matchmaking maybe should be stricter, but basing it off the win condition is pretty necessary (I also think an MMR system of some type is necessary for this game).
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Only #2 and 4# are valid, but that isn’t going to fix going next or dcing, they’re just things that BHVR should already have improved.
The hard truth is you aren’t going to force anyone to sit in a match that they aren’t enjoying and aren’t having fun in, in SoloQ. The reality is that currently, DBD has never been easier for Killers and Killers decimate SoloQ lobbies because they are over-tuned to deal with SWF.
Most of my SoloQ games someone goes next on hook or DCs. Almost every single one of my matches, a Surv is found immediately after spawning in and then downed 10 seconds later to which they are then camped/tunneled/slugged. The matches hardly have any actual gameplay, so people leave.The solution is for BHVR to actually make the game fun again and to finally address the imbalance of SWF. Every Surv buff outright buffs SWF and every Killer buff decimates SoloQ even more. BHVR needs to exclusively nerf SWF and then rebalance Killers/Maps/Loops/Gen placement to adjust.
They aren’t likely to do that though as they’ve let this issue fester for a decade and the problem has now gotten to such a level that it would be a huge undertaking. Not to mention that this community is so entitled that they’d rather force players to stay in horrible matches, rather than talk about ways to actually fix the game and do what a video game should do, facilitate fun.
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It mostly boils down to giving survivors a reason to stick out matches. Pips are meaningless for veteran players. And you'd have to really not value your time to think spending another 10 minutes in a trial you already lost is worth it. The overwhelming majority of "go next" that I see stems from one sided trials.
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^ this.
ScottJund tweeted yesterday that the Hook Suicides increased when they removed depipping, which I cannot disagree more. People who go next dont care about BPs and BPs is all you get from pipping up.
I think if Matchmaking would be rank-based again AND Depipping would be back, there would be far less Hook Suicides. (Even tho I have to say, the removal of Depips makes it less frustrating to be in a game which is already lost)
But in general, there needs to be an incentive for those who get left behind. It should either be the option to DC, because nobody wants to continue an early 3v1, or a massive Boost for the remaining Survivors which would make their odds of surviving the Trial much higher. Because currently in an early 3v1 you are a BP-Pinata as Survivor, you will not escape, there is 0 chance that you will escape (unless Matchmaking was completely wonky and the Killer is way worse than the Survivors), but you have to stick around.
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I saw his same point, and agreed whole heartedly. I did know it back at the time, but I since forgot, cause I overall liked that they removed de-pipping more. When he pointed it out I said to myself "Oh yeah… this did start when they removed that… I completely forgot about it"
It was interesting in his own research, which is obviously a 100 games from 1 person so the sample size isn't really large enough to draw concrete solutions, but the trend that he saw was most give ups on hook and DCs occurred within the first minute or so of the game.
I think there is potential to bring in a minimum trial participation time, where if you leave prior to that point (either DC or self unhook attempts) you depip. I am thinking maybe if there were a 3 minute minimum participation and a minimum score of 4000, otherwise you depip that would fix a lot of this problem. Call it a "Entity dissatisfied" penalty. If you made it where you can even de-rank if you're on 0 pips for that rank, that'd put a pin in it pretty hard.
I was thinking to myself, is 3 minutes a reasonable time? Scenarios where it's be a problem:
- What if you get hooked within the first 30s, and no-one saves you off hook… that would be 170s to die… just shy of 3 minutes. VERY unlikely to happen. Never seen it.
- What if you get caught within 30s, hooked, your team unhooks immediately, 2 times and you die in 30 seconds. That is potentially less than ~2 minutes to die. I have had this happen to me once in my DBD career… and I did lose a pip… and it's kinda fair enough if you get that badly smoked to my mind…
- What if you're a noob who tries to self unhook and kills yourself unintentionally early? I don't think even the noobiest noob would make this mistake more than once or twice…
- What if your connection is crap and you keep DCing from the game. If you're continuously DCing within the first 3 minutes of the game, you're probably more mad about your inability to play the game in general, and will likely stop regardless until you fix the issue.
I think these scenarios are so rare that I think it would be fine. It's only a pip so I think its a sufficient punishment that even if it hits an innocent player… it's not really that big of a deal… at least when compared to banning players. I'd like self unhook attempts to stay personally… or at the very least if they are removed I'd like an option to accelerate my death if there is 1 player still alive. Though in fairness, if unhooking is removed, does this solve the problem of hatch and slugging for the 4k?
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An incentive for those left behind wouldn't solve the issue really. The people left behind leaving aren't the ones we need to encourage to stay, it's the ones that leave in the first place. Making the 3v1 better would be great, but incentivising people to stay to prevent a 3v1 in the first place is the better solution.
Even if you gave the 3 survivors a million blood points after someone rage quits it still wouldn't be fun or solved. The 3 survivors are still stuck in a losing game, the killer is stuck in a boring match, and the survivor who left is already in another game to ruin.
There needs to be something that encourages people to stay and stick the game out, even if the start was bad. I think Scott is partially right about the depip thing, but overall I think it was just the last nail in the coffin as they've removed most reasons to stay in the match. Iri shards used to be tied to the length of a game, depips are now gone and ranks are meaningless, and bloodpoints are basically handed to you for free that at this point only newer players are in need of them.
The only thing left that does really reward you for staying, is that you gain more MMR the longer the game lasts. But you can't even see your MMR so it's not really a reward is it :/
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I mean, ideally you would give incentives for people to stay and not give up in the first place, I agree. One thing would be to remove certain, very frustrating things in the game. You will always have people who quit early, this cannot be avoided. E.g. I had a DC in a Billy-game because the Survivor got hit by me with a Chainsaw across the Map. This is not Bily being unfair, this is the Survivor messing up a lot. And you cannot do anything against that.
But if we look at Nurse and see that most games against Nurse are not really worth playing… This is a different topic.
However, the next best thing after making people quit less is to make the game worth playing for those who were left behind. And I dont really talk about BPs here, but that you have a chance to win the game, even if the game is an early 3v1. This includes an early 3v1 due to a DC/Suicide and an early 3v1 because of tunneling. Because my point still stands - once the game is a 3v1, the Killer will take their time, since they won and will probably just farm BPs for themselves. But the Survivors are just there to provide BPs, they cannot win. Sure, they also get BPs and Emblems, but it is still not fun to keep playing a game you already lost.
One option would always be to allow people to DC when there is a DC early on (or a Hook Suicide). Sure, would need to have some restrictions, mainly that you cannot do it after a certain point of progression is reached. But i dont want to stick around in a 3v1-game when not even a single Gen is completed, regardless of the role.
Another option would be to make Survivors stronger when there is a DC or Hook Suicide. But this would not really be possible for tunneling, since 4 Survivors participated in the game and the Killer won 3 chases against that one Survivor.
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other than them removing the ability to unhook idk how they can really fix that issue. Also telling others to uninstall isn’t gonna help
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Agreed. Some sort of comeback mechanism for survivors would make sticking around more palatable. A killer can potentially snowball. I've won many games where I lost 3 gens on the first chase. I can't say the same comeback potential exists for survivors. And those early 3v1 games last as long as the killer wants them to last, which is usually an extended ego stroking session.
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