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Knock out
What a wonderful time to end my game on a weekend then to deal with some 10 year old that wants to make everyone elses experience in the game a waste of time.
BHVR fix your game already. Slugging should not even be a playstyle, much less have a perk revolve around it.
Comments
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Gonna be real but the amount of people I've gone against that have ran dedicated slugging builds (or even just knockout for that matter) over the past 6 months I could count on a single hand. Doesn't stop knock out from being kinda awful to go against however, I think the easiest solution to it is to slap a 30-40 second duration on the aura cover up aspect of it. Functionally the perk is still the same and does what it does, but it lasts just long enough for the killer to get it's intended use out of it while not making it horrible to deal with in uncordinated solos.
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if your allies don't want to spend 10-15 seconds to find you or you don't want to crawl to your allies, then it's not killers/perks problem
I just don’t understand why you blame the killer on the fact that you lost the chase and your allies didn’t care about you8 -
Just played against a Spirit with the exact TT Knockout build. Was a nice easy 4 out! I've been running a build specially to counter it due to how often it's being run at the moment and it worked perfectly!
Inner Focus is the key, Unbreakable, Blast Mine and whatever exhaustion perk you want I guess. If you're on a gen when someone gets downed, you have to let go ASAP to counter Mind Breaker. Fortunetly Inner Focus lasts longer than Mind breaker so you see the killers aura. Even if they've moved away slightly, finding the downed person is pretty easy. If you've got downed you have Unbreakable. Once you've been downed you just have to use Inner Focus to stay away from the killer and keep gens ticking before you get the next rescue.
Blast Mine tells survivors what gens you're doing so if they've got any sense, when you are away from them picking up, the others have some sort of guide to keep gens going.
This build has worked pretty well every time I played against the Knockout build going around right now. Hopefully this all makes some sense!
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I will add to this that Empathy I believe also helps to counter knockout. It reveals the aura of any survivor that is injured, through the entire map. (It’s one of my favorite perks I feel is very slept on, as you can get a lot of info! Things like where a chase is happening and when they use a pallet, or where an injured teammate is, it helps to take protection hits, and also it’s a free Claudette perk so it’s easily accessible) I’m not a fan of knockout, it’s my least favorite perk in the game. But I’m thankful for this build you suggested to try out. Thanks!
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If BHVR was caring enough about solo survivors, they would rework this perk years ago. I don't know why they are still allowing this perk. It has no use but just bully solo survivors.
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Problem with Empathy is when you are on gens you won't see it because of Mind Breaker. And by the time they are downed it'll be too late once the blindness from that has cleared. Or does Empathy still see the slug through Knockout?
The build that is popular is Knockout, Mindbreaker, Surge and Sloppy Butcher so I doubt Empathy trumps the hidden aura of Knockout. I didn't think it did?
Inner Focus allows you to do gens and still have time to know more or less where the slug is. With Empathy, doing gens is more risky, unless you constantly let go and wait 5 seconds?
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"10-15 seconds to find you" spoken like someone who has never played against knockout
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If I don't see the down surivovr and know if the killer have it, I simply jump in a locker to counter it. They will drop me but at least my team mates will know where I am.
Then crawl towards Boon: Exponential cuz that perk will never leave my main build.4 -
Yea because sitting on the ground or crawling around the map insanely slow is such riveting gameplay.
All for what, the Killer to rush back and immediately down everyone again to drag the game out longer?It makes sense, you are definitely the type of Killer making miserable matches that primarily affect SoloQ, so you get some sort of satisfaction from a fabricated power trip.
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Yall take getting slugged too personal. There are various ways around it. You just to do the opposite. In most situations I see survivors do nothing to make it easier on themselves. As much as tunneling is used in this game you would use more anti slug perks.
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That's an L response tbh. The only actual way around all that is to play in a SWF, but then Killers cry and it leads to more of the same. Can we say, cycle.
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Its an L response to bring a perk that helps you against slugging. Sounds like its a you issue not the killer.
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What perk is going to stop a Killer from slugging everyone the entire match? C'mon quick, which perk is that?
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Boon Exponential. Play smart go down near the boon but not too close. Move it when needed. Also you shouldnt be just relying on perks. Looping is really important and of course which killers you are going against matters too.
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Oh so a boon that the Killer can put out. Wow that's amazing, game altering lol
Anddd now you're saying Survs shouldn't rely on perks, but your prior reply was stating to use perks to counter slugging. Mmmmmm so you don't really have much to actually contribute lol
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You can just relite it oh my the dramatics. Yes use them. Didnt say rely on them. Perks arent meant to give 100% value all the time..
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I dislike Knockout and want it changed, too, it's a perk for slugging.
But blaming the Killer for your teammates not coming to help you is a really, really bad look.
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Based on previous history muplite slugging perks will probably get netf soon.
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i have saved up 100 iri addons for ghostface for instant recloak and 8 second aura on downs , gonna run that badboys with lethal persuer for additional 2 second making it 10 and the n compliment that , i havent really made up my mind if i am going to use deer knockout plus surge or perhaps Franklin and weave which is also good cuz they arent crawling anywhere.
oh i plan to run that with my 100 skull offerings to not burn my iri addons so i can do 200 matches of slugging in midwitch/mental hospital.
To compliment that experience i got a 2 litre termos mug that i will fill with ice and coffee as i zip on while looking at u.
this is because you guys prolining gates and not being greatful enough when i spare your life by running to opposite gate and not let me stab you in your face in the way out.0 -
Yea let me relite the boon when I'm slugged lol Great idea, do you even play DBD?
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Make sure you move the gens towards the boon too.
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I’m convinced I am talking to a child at this point.
If you can’t comprehend the mere idea of a boon exponential then I don’t know what to tell you.
lite boon, get slugged, crawl to boon…you have teammates that can get you up. Are they slugged? Crawl to boon? Boom snuffed out? Use unbreakable, constantly going against slugging killers? (Not likely) bring we’re gonna live forever.
You literally have tools to use to help circumvent this. I know it’s not what you want to hear - because you want to just be able to get up effortlessly everytime a killer slugs but use what you have.I am not for slugging and I think there should be a better system in place but here we are.
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The problem with this deep dive here is it required no perks to slug
But apparently requires all the perks to counter it.
Same thing as tunneling, requires nothing to do but requires everything for counter.
As seen by the popularity of chaos shuffle, people like to play with perks for some fun. It adds a different flow of the game, rather than being "have to run X because of Y"
Think we both agree that several minutes of play of inactivity is probably not the intention of the devs on gameplay for survivors. This is why old eruption is not a thing anymore.
What is the answer for slugging? Honestly the hooks were put there for a reason, and the devs want to have an extremely long timer for slugging, so I wouldnt really have a problem with just basekit unbreakable infinite but be a bit slower to recover to make up for this. You should be interacting with the hooks as a killer.And then maybe have unbreakable the perk has some other effect.
Slugging should be this thing that maybe you can do short term but not waste several minutes of everyones time in a match.
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Now you are literally lying, firstly, in order to shoot down survivors, killers need win chase ( play better than the survivor) and secondly, if you are shot down, then your allies can pick you up
"But apparently requires all the perks to counter it."
the only time when your allies will not be able to quickly pick you up is if the killer is knocked out and you are far from the edge of the map, otherwise they will easily find you or you will crawl to your allies in 40 seconds
if the killer beat you and spent 25% of his perks on a slug and you didn’t want to spend 1 out of 16 on an anti-slug and lost the chase, then the problem is not in killer or perk1 -
Knock out needs a rework.
Simple as is. The more popular the perk becomes the more obvious it's flawed design is.
I still don't get it why this game can't promote fun playstyles. DBD at a higher level promoted the most unfun playstyles ever. Nobody likes to sit on the floor for an uncertain amount of time.
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I would agree - slugging as a strat to do temporarily isn't an issue. Say 40-60 seconds etc. However, at 5 gens everyone slugged…I don't see the strat in that.
I don't know what the devs plan to do down the road to help find a fix for this in live games, but I feel like they are throwing a few things on the table in the office…We shall see.
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Well, what are we gonna replace it with? Gen defense? Chasing? Tunneling? Camping? Hit and run? Those have all been made useless. You have to give the killer a chance to do something in order for them to win, or they'll just stop playing. And before you talk about supposed skill that the killers need to learn, that is what those strategies^ were, a channel for the skill to come out. Killer can't win with random chases. This is not anime where if you just do well enough, if you will it hard enough into existence, you'll just win in the end. The survivors have been allowed to use whatever build or strategy they want. The killers have been punished for using theirs, since they're now destroyed. The playerbase will not survive another straight nerf to killer. You have to throw them a lifeline.
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dbd been on a 4 step plan for the last decade.
1 a tactic become the main meta (camping, 3genning, tunneling, slugging)
2 Survivors are giving blatantly broken perks as counterplay that will inevitably be nerf . (ptb reassurance, original DS, buckle up/FTP, mft)
3 killer perks that help make the tactic stronger than get nerfs.
Over charge & Call Of Brien- for 3gens
Pain Res and Pop multiple times- for tunneling
Gen blocking perks- for camping
4 Tactics are still too strong so survivors get a basekit counter. (3 gen solution, borrow time, anti face camp meter with longer hook timers)
we in phase 3 so I'm assuming knock out and some other random slug perk that the data show is being use will be nerf. killers will double down on that tactic like always and then we will eventually get a basekit solution
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That's just some bad luck man, sorry your last game went like that. Roll the dice again at your discretion.
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Played against the Knockout slug build two times this afternoon, both 3 and 4 man escapes. The game I just played Exponential, Unbreakable and Empathy all fully played their part. Think I prefer Inner Focus over Empathy for facing the actual slug build, but Empathy probably just has the edge in usefulness in normal matches, so am running that.
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Not much to add to the thread, but echoing that the solo q experience has been miserable with knock out / slugging (really slugging in general). It’s rough as slugging has its place (boil over on some maps is ridiculous and the end-game collapse), but it’s absurd that slugging is regularly happening at 3-5 gens.
Honestly, the whole perk system needs a rework to fix the issue (both killer and survivor), but at the end of the day, if survivors are forced to do gens, killers should be forced to use hooks. /shrug
Edit: As an aside, might as well remove all of the “unhook suvivor” codex challenges with the current slugging meta. Few killers in my mmr bracket using them anyway.0 -
What kill/winrate do you suggest we balance around, if 60% KR and 55% WR is apparently so abysmal that we just protest-ruin the game?
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Killers are in the 2nd best place they've ever been. They can literally shut the matches down with a singular, no perk needed method.
Stepping away from dbd specifically, its bad for game design in general.
Knockout exacerbates many playstyles that apparently require skill, but really doesn't. Skill is not needed to tunnel, camp, or slug. All can be done perk less, without game sense, and by any killer on the roster. Where's the skill? Oh winning chase? Too many on both sides says chases are short and most survivors dont now how to loop. And if they do? You just switch targets til you fond one that doesn't know. Not much skill there, just looking for the easy kill. Personally that sounds boring as a killer, but some people need their fix. Nothing wrong with that.
That said, its one of the things in the game you either deal with or move on. It will get its day as enough people have complained. That day will just be in a few years probably.
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Think about it from the opposite perspective: do you enjoy the killer plays that are ruining your gaming experience with DS, OtR, and the silent stun grenades of bugs that are being exploited because they won't be fixed?
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I haven't seen knockout in about 6 months so I can speak to that. When it comes to slugging is anyone tracking their games? I'd be curious if MMR, region, times played etc… might impact how often people see this type of behavior.
I'm personally not experiencing this epidemic of slugging that so many other people are seeing. I'm really curious why is it different for me. There must be some factor why its so bad for some and not others.
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The Knockout build is coming up quite often for me in the UK. Faced it more times the past few weeks than in the past three years.
Maybe it's happening more here because one of the biggest DBD UK streamers has been using it with success for the past month or so, and it renders a large number of powerful survivor perks completely useless so has caught on here.
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