very scared of the upcoming pinhead changes

Pinhead shouldnt be able to break his own chains either. The box is perfect but you get little value out of your shots when Deathslinger and Houndmaster can do a much better job for far less stress.

That's terrible suggestion. He is already have strong slowdown by his own kit. And we are giving him strong chase power on this? Hopefully BHVR did not lose their mind.

All I really want is to go against a Pinhead and not have the game finish before the first generator pops. I am a veteran player but I could not explain to someone what his counter-play is on a basic level. Every time I go against a Pinhead, another player tends to quit/DC/suicide before the first generator in solo-queue. At that point, I’ve already joined the fodder to go next.

I don’t think the developers should inherently change characters because they are disliked, but there is something about him that causes people to not want to play the game … and it seems more than the usual.

You mean killer mains? Because i don't see anyone but few killer mains only.

I get what you mean. I’m a SoloQ main, so whenever I see pinhead in my games it usually goes 1 of 2 ways: everyone gets out aside from maybe 1 due to end game camping. Or 2: everyone is dead at like 4 gens.

I think SoloQ in general deserves much more grace than it receives, as it doesn’t make sense to continually dismiss its struggles if you prefer people to play it over SWF. You need there to be some kind of incentive to play Solo over SWF and right now there isn’t much of one. That being said I think a major reason why it’s so tough is because survivors have no way to practice against killers unless by chance. Killer can do custom matches with any survivor perk or item even if they do not own it themselves, giving them an opportunity to play against different perk combinations on any map they need practice on. It’s great. Survivors would benefit so much from the same kind of tools.

Pinhead is kind of rare so many people may not even know the counter play because they don’t see him often. Right now the game expects you to learn it through trial by fire and you never get to decide when those trials happen. It could be once every month or so which means it’s going to take you a very long time until you can comfortably perform counter play when you obtained not only knowledge of it but also the skill to pull it off.

Well they are doing that thing where you can play as a killer for events and such, which should hopefully help address this somewhat…

I fundamentally believe the best way to learn survivor is to play killer. Knowing how the killers power works is the first major step to understanding the killer, and then knowing the killers limitations is the second… you get both so much quicker playing the killer than playing against them as survivor. After that it's practice and optimising movement, which is only earned playing vs. the killer, but you can make up a lot of ground just having knowledge.

I have a friend who holds the opinion that vast majority of killers are overpowered for numerous reasons, and I've exasperatingly explained to him again and again that he has never played killer, so he doesn't know what the killer can do, and importantly what the killer can't do, so of course he thinks they're overpowered.

I mean anyone who plays with me will tell you I'm a total goober, but even I am better than a lot of players with 3 times my hours simply because I can read the game and I know how most things work. It is a slippery slope though, because I see so many bad plays from survivors where they give the killer exactly what they want and then are suprised when the game runs away from them… I've many times said "What the hell are you doing!? Where are these idiots when I'm playing killer!?" xD

Pinheads slowdown is strong against very uncoordinated teams, good against ok teams, and almost non-existent against really good teams. His chase badly needs to be looked at, as do some of his addons. Original pain, as mentioned by the others is the one addon that needs to be changed the fastest.

Let's compare Pinhead to Pig. Piggy is undeniably the killer with the strongest build in slowdown in dbd. Pinheads is a lot weaker. Therefore his chase should be much better than hers, right?

On a lot of maps, this sadly isn't the case, and we are talking about the ambush here.

He should easily beat her in chase, due to his weaker slowdown. Therefore his chase should be buffed.

I don't think there's much else that could be done to Engineer's that isn't a total rework. It is pretty boring but after the previous nerf it got it's not actually super strong.

For Original Pain I was thinking if they want to keep the addon similar while removing what makes it problematic (deep wound enabling tunneling) they could just replace deep wound with mangled and hemorrhage instead, so it still acts as slowdown on injured survivors like it can now but without negating base BT/OTR

Ah, yes I better understand your point. And I am in agreement! While I don’t believe people should be forced to play either role, I absolutely do think everyone should at least try both roles in order to better understand the struggles and challenges each represent. Both roles being free does give us a rare opportunity to truly experience “if you were in my shoes” and I think it’s fairly obvious when people don’t take advantage of that opportunity because a blatant lack of empathy is usually displayed. Such as your examples of tunneling and slugging and how people in a mob-like mentality around it always being bad all the time and it how it shouldn’t be possible to do.

Personally, I dont want either slugging or tunneling to be completely removed from the game entirely, as they are sometimes unavoidable or necessary. I view them as tools, just like anything else, like pallets or perks. But what I do I believe is that there should be an equal amount of reward/risk when it comes to those tools, just like any other. What’s debatable about slugging and tunneling in contrast to perks or pallets is because these tools essentially are free in the sense that they don’t require any perk slots, nor do they rely on rng, and can be somewhat “spammed” (unlike perks with cooldown or pallets that have a one time use) and of course being that the counters to these tools do require perk slots, many perks of which are on paid characters. In my opinion, the ability to use those tools and the tools themselves are not balanced the same way other tools or tool requirements in the game are, which I think is the “core of the issue” so to speak. I do not support the total elimination of them.

Anyway, all that to say that I agree that if people would experience the struggles of both roles, instead of dismissing either of them by blatant bias or lack of empathy, it would help both roles better understand why things happen the way they do and could lead to more productive conversations on further adjustments with that knowledge in mind. ✌️

And unfortunately it seems a lot of people only play one side, because I see a lot of complaining from Survivors here about how overpowered every single Killer is - including Stealth Killers and even once, Trapper. Trapper? Yes, Trapper.

I also see a lot of Killer only Players complain about flashlights, not because they are annoying (they are) but because they are "overpowered". Um, in all my thousands of hours of play, confession time, I have only managed to blind with a flashlight a grand total of… two times. They made Flashlights easier, and some of us still cannot use them.

I don't think they would be gutting him if they made it so he can't interact with the box. If he downs someone holding the box, then it will activate; I feel like that is fair. It kind of sucks when they go and activate the box right when the match starts.