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Basekit mori
Basekit mori is the worst thing BHVR has done to this game. EVERY match the killers slug for the mori. today alone i have bled out THREE TIMES because the killer couldnt find the last player. its insane. it actively encourages slugging. at least give us basekit unbreakable
Comments
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Agreed. I'm tired of matches ending in moris. I don't play survivor as much as before. And I do play killer more often now, but overall, I play the game less as a result. Sometimes there's a week or so where I just don't play DBD now :(
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I just don't care to see a Mori multiple times a day. I especially don't want to see them in stomp matches or early 3vs1 scenarios where games obviously aren't good for the 3 remaining Survivor.
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I wouldn’t say it’s the worst thing they’ve ever done but I do think it was a misstep.
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Slugging for the 4k was a thing that happened before basekit mori was introduced. You getting bled out while the killer is looking for your teammate isn't really a mori issue. The only thing that really changed is killers waiting while your teammates are dying on hook. Depending on if your teammate wants to speed that along or not could be upwards of 140 seconds.
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The fact that players warned them this would happened and they released stats saying slugging didn't happen very often. I feel they base their decisions on outdated data. Yeah a year ago slugging was not an issue but widespread so the idea came out to do this. But as they worked on it the problem grew, now it's out of hand and they can't walk back on it.
They base their decisions on the PTB which this time had problems with survivors wanting to do it. My question here is how can survivors give feedback if the majority playing the PTB are killers? The PTB isn'tgood for that because the pool of players is so small.
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I think it's neat.
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They aren’t teammates. They’re other players with a goal to live. And to imply killers aren’t slugging anymore now than they did before the finisher mori is disingenuous at least. More accurately though it’s just a flagrant lie.
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I at no point said it happened at the same rate. I said slugging for the 4k was already a thing. I can EASILY find plenty of posts complaining about it before basekit mori was a thing. By all means point to a SINGLE thing I DID say that was a lie and not something you THINK I implied.
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Every thread about this says the same thing. As though throughout the history of DBD slugging for the 4k wasn't a thing and wasn't complained about.
Killers that wanted the 4k before are just mori the last survivor instead of hooking. That's all that changed.
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Everyone just need to stop playing survivor and give them nothing but bot matches. Really some of them are so pathetic you have the ones who wait till your 99% bleed out then mori after.
Also those who are saying slugging was always a thing before mori we know that so stop beating around the bush and act like yall do not know what we are talking about.
Even though it was happening it was far less and at least 70% of the time or more the killer would hook the third person then look for the fourth and now every game is =slug for 4k to see stale mori ever since this finisher garbage came out.
Post edited by buggybug on6 -
You typed, “the only thing that really changed…” what does a change mean? It means something is different, correct? And what’s different? It isn’t the action—slugging for a 4K—which by your own admission has always occurred. So what is different? All that is left is the prevalence; the rate at which it is happening. Otherwise there has been no change and your comment would surely state that.
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For example BHVR tried bs unbreakable 2 years ago, but of course “slugging appeared only now”
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You win alot of shower arguments against yourself don't you...
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Honestly I don't think this is a Mori issue, and if the problem really is where the Mori is placed then that means we need to make GREEN Mori basekit not Cypress, just so the Killer can have their shot at one Mori and now we don't have the fear of a 2k slug at the end.
But truthfully? I think if you are purposefully doing everything you can to make it impossible for the Killer to kill you when that's their only goal now that the game is nearly over, all while I bleed out on the ground while feebly crawling for hatch, then I don't think that's the Killer's fault for wanting a 4k and I'm not going to blame them. I'm going to blame you, the teammate, for keeping me in the match this long doing nothing but bleed just because you're too petty to let the Killer finish the round.
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Basekit mori is the worst thing BHVR has done to the game? You must be new. Some of us spent months dealing with the gen kick meta, only to have BHVR launch the Skunk Merchant.
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Apparently some players are so desperate for the mori that they slug for that alone when they wouldn't care for the 4k otherwise. I have my doubts that this is actually true though. Moris are a nice detail but to be honest, they don't look that good that I need to see them every time and I would assume that's how most players feel.
What could be done though is reworking the mori so it only works on the 3rd survivor, if and only if the other one is not in the dying state. So if by chance there really is an uptick in slugging for the mori it would now disincentivise it.
I don't think we even have any data that would show that slugging for the 4k became more prevalent around the time the base kit more was introduced. I know that there were stats about slugging but without a comparison to how much it occured before that, this is really not sufficient. It could have always been like this and we wouldn't know for sure. It's also possible that this started way sooner and just now reached its peak.
It might as well be, that killers overall win more, which leads to more games in which slugging for the 4k is even an option. Or people don't want to take a completely arbitrary risk in hooking the third survivor and giving the 4th 2 more chances to escape. That's really the part that I don't like about the way the hatch works. You win the game by killing 3 survivors but then there is a second and third chance for that last survivor to escape still, which can also be minimised by slugging.
I'd say that's a problem with the hatch. One that unfortunately has no easy solution because without the hatch, that last survivor basically has no incentive to play anymore. The same thing would be true for the last 2 survivors (with 1-2 gens remaining).
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Oddly, I like hatch for that reason from both roles. As the last survivor, the odds of escape through a gate decrease dramatically unless the gate positioning is lucky. And as you mentioned, without hatch, I'd feel like I should keep trying to survive and escape.
As killer, I feel like the last survivor should have a realistic chance at escape, especially if it's been a very one-sided match. At 3k, I have a good outcome, so the fourth kill doesn't matter to me.
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Are you projecting?
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It’s reasonable to think killers slug more to see the finisher mori. We don’t need stats to show that as it is a logical conclusion. In any event, BHVR won’t ever release stats on slugging. It would be awful PR. But I’m sure they monitor it. They don’t release stats on tunneling, but we know for sure they track this data.
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yeah agreed it wasn’t the best decision. However I did see on the survey that they were asking about slugging so maybe something is in the works to prevent this. We saw kind of a basekit unbreakable in the last iteration Of 2v8. Hopefully they do something. Queue times lately have been horrendous. We need something to make the queues better
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oh yes, of course the killer slug is because of the 5 second animation, and not because:
1) they always did this to avoid the hatch
2) survivors actually received +80 seconds on the hook, and considering that it takes the killer about 13 seconds to hang a survivor on the hook, this is too much pressure loss
3) anti-genrush perks for hooks have been nerfed, at the same time survivors received a perk for exchanging hooks, and generally get more benefit from hooks than killers
But yes, it’s probably a matter of a 5-second mori, which the killer could have received before by taking an offering2 -
It’s reasonable to think killers slug more to see the finisher mori. We don’t need stats to show that as it is a logical conclusion.
It's just as reasonable to think that killers stop caring about the mori after the first few times. The animation doesn't change. It's not like you see something new every time. So we do need stats.
In any event, BHVR won't ever release stats on slugging.
That's factually incorrect. They already did that. They published some data about how long the average survivor spends on the ground etc.
I couldn't find the complete forums post about this but this was posted on Reddit.
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Frankly I agree, I don't know any Killer players that slug specifically for the Mori, it's just a nice bonus. I do see it, but like… those people would honestly just have shut the hatch in your face and hooked you or used a Mori offering anyway, so what is really the difference?
I just do not think the basekit Mori alone explains Killers doing this. I think there's other factors at play.
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How do they know the killer wouldn't care for the 4k otherwise? Is the saying they need the mori for a daily or tome challenge? Because those would be rare enough not to cause outcry. Killer's want a 4k. They would slug the 3rd to get the 4th, just now they will wait out the 3rd survivors hook animation for a mori.
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That's what I'm thinking as well but some others suspect that killer players really want to see the mori each time and that that is what incentivises them to slug for the 4k.
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I think it's likely that both cases exist. There are likely a lot of people who got over the novelty and now don't care, but I imagine there are a lot of people who feel rewarded when they get the mori from a 4k. I definitely still see people waiting out hook states to get their mori. I've also seen people hit the last person on-hook repeatedly to try to get the person on hook to let them have their mori when they know where the slug is.
My suspicion is that since a very common scenario that produces the finisher mori is a 4k, some people will see the finisher mori as something that happens when they've done well, giving them a dopamine release and reinforcing that getting the mori signifies that they've done a good job. Some people would then be more inclined to slug for it. Others would just care that they won, and others would just not like slugging for 4k, etc. It's likely that for some number of players, the finisher mori is encouraging slugging for 4k, and for others it's not making a difference. But the net result of that is that the new mechanic ends up encouraging slugging for 4k in the community overall.
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THIS. i was just playing a match against a slugging huntress (girl… you can throw hatchets across the map… theres no reason to slug unless you're dogwater at the game) and she was proxy camping hook. as soon as someone ran over there, they were downed instantly (she was a one hitter) and it just made the game miserable. so i just did gens and left. i felt bad… but man. there was no chance.
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probably because people aren't playing as much anymore. I took a break for over a year because it was getting stupid. Now I'm remembering why I took that break
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No, I'm not new. it has 100% made the game more toxic. yeah, they've made bad decisions in the past (especially to surv perk nerfs and killer perk buffs… i play both sides equally. its much easier now as killer) but this was downright DUMB to do. survs have no basekit abilities. killers have quite a few
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I’m not a fan of it either. Someone please remind me as to why was it implemented.
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Echoing the same sentiments. The game has become absolutely miserable in higher MMR, made worse when the current “meta” (thanks to TTVs etc). Back to back killers all trying to slug to watch people bleed out, often using the “Knock Out” perk etc. Sure, it’s a tactic, but it’s toxic as hell and boring waiting to bleed out in hopes that the next killer isn’t doing the same thing, especially with these ridiculously long queue times between games.
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That actually isn't true, pardon my saying, that Survivors have no basekit abilities but Killers have tons. it's actually 100% the opposite - Survivors have a lot more basekit things than Killers do.
Here is what Survivors have, basekit:
- Increased speed if more than one person is on a gen
- Unhook protection in the form of an endurance hit, a haste boost, and Undetectable so as to have some small form of antitunnel
- 70 seconds per hook stage on the hook to be sacrificed
- A haste boost when they take a hit from healthy
- The ability to unlock chests to find items, sometimes even some pretty good ones (can be buffed with certain perks but it's not hard to just randomly find a medkit or toolbox for some help) - and unlocking was just recently sped up to 8 seconds to help with this
- Three other Survivors with them in the team
- Aura read whenever a Survivor is downed so they know where the Survivor is
- Several HUD icons that help show who is doing what, to help SoloQ coordinate a little better
- Certain maps that just so happen to be a bit more in their favor due to number of resources
- An anti facecamp system to prevent the worst kinds of camping
- An anti 3gen system to prevent games from stalling
- A fairly long bleedout timer (I would even say too long as it is currently a problem when Killers 4-man slug) that allows ample time for another Survivor to help if the Killer slugs them
Survivors are supposedly given all this basekit help to make the game more fair to them, because Killers have powers already. But no such catchup mechanics exist for Killer, period, no second chances exist, nothing even remotely like this exists for Killer. This is because they aren't supposed to need it, but even still in some cases, to this day, having a power for some Killers may not be enough to help them if they're struggling or are a weaker Killer.
In fact it's so the case that Survivors just get more basekit help and catchup stuff than Killers do that the only basekit thing I can think of that Killers really have is gen kicking and hooks respawning now. The basekit kicking was slightly boosted to 5% and an anti-gentap feature was added, which was much needed because gentapping destroyed gen pressure too much. The respawning hooks were added as a response to buffed Sabotage and because sadly, Survivors would go stall games in unhookable areas the Killer was forced to slug in.
The proof is just right there, friend. I'm sorry, but you're wrong unless you believe that all Killer powers/abilities are equal. And they really just are not, because Survivor basekit things unfortunately can be harder for someone like say, Trapper to not have to brute force around than they are for someone like Billy to work with. Oftentimes an M1, especially a low mobility one, may need to force a slug or return to a hook THROUGH these catchup tools meant to protect Survivors from Killers like Nurse tunnelling them right off the hook.
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IMO, game loop should change a little:
survs should not die on hooks. instead each trial should have time limit.
Hooks and mories just makes one or more survs being unable to do objectives (new objectives could be introduced).
Surv on hook can be rescued or wait untill his hook timer runs out then they are removed from the hook by the Entity but far from killer.
Moried survs are incapacitated for longer, they are in a ghost mode where they cant see and have no collision with gens, totems, killers and other survs, they also fo not scare crows, but can hear killer TR. When ghost timer runs out they just shows up.
This would require various perk changes especially hook ones.
Game is resolved in two ways:
Timer runs out, survs coudnt finish their objectives and thus they are sacrificed (like at the end of collaps) and loose all like a team.
Timer is ticking, but survs finished their objectives and Entity consumes the killer to punnish them. Survs wins all, like a team should.
Also all survs should then be able to recover by their own from dying state.0
