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Could we revert mft or dh?
With perks on the killer side like reworked genetic limits and the recently gigabuffed languid and the good old mindbreaker providing the killer constant ways to exhaust survivors, could mft or DH be reverted to their most previous state? Genetic limits would counter both of these perks the moment you injure them. Maybe buff genetic to 10 or 12 seconds to compensate but it feels like dh and mft were in times where the killers had very little recourses to exhaust survivors to counter their perk. Now that killers have reliable ways to exhaust survivors I want to know if you all think mft or dh (Not both that would be overkill) could be reverted. (Mft to 7.0.0 version and dh to 6.1 version)
Comments
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But MfT and DH are literally fine as is?? There is absolutely 0 reason to change them
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I wait patiently for the day my sweet MFT returns home to its former glory.
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no
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i feel like the general consensus here is gonna be "hell no" but i applaud you for your bravery in posting such a controversial suggestion
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I pray and hope with all of my heart.
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Old DH - I never had a problem with this perk as a killer, but I understand how many people hated the fake out game and found it immersion breaking. Benefit is that with the new DH your chance rate of pulling it off goes way up because killer isn't expecting it.
Old MFT - I didn't have a huge problem with the perk, but it was really strong. It needed to be changed. It could be slightly stronger.
Killer perks
I'm going to say the same thing I say when killers argue 'but just bring X perk!' The game shouldn't be designed around the idea of perks winning or losing the game. Perks should give small advantages which, if used correctly, might be the difference maker, but are not an absolute necessity.
Buffing both DH and MFT would create a scenario where the killer had to run one of the exhaustion causing perks, and I don't think that would be healthy.
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Buff one of the strongest perks in the game to an even stronger version and buff a strong perk back to being one of the strongest perks in the game because the perks that most killers don't use are better now?
Yes and while we are at it since survivors have a perk to swap hook states and better perks to counter tunneling off the hook lets just remove basekit bt
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"Could we revert the perk that used to be broken by increasing your speed for free or the one that is STILL one of the best survivor perks in the game even after all its nerfs?"
No.
Mindbreaker, Languid and Genetic Limits aren't all that useful. The best killer perks are the slowdown perks, and they were nerfed over the years just like the strong survivor perks. If someone is having trouble using Dead Hard, just pick Sprint Burst or Lithe instead. They are as strong as ever.
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MFT should definitely get changed, preferably to being 2% but always active when not exhausted. It’s funny how some people call the current useless MFT strong, it really tells a lot.
I don’t want dead hard to go back to almost unlimited endurance on demand, but I would love getting the dash version back.
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I think Dead Hard is in an okay spot, but MFT could probably do with a little something given the activation requirement is kind of niche. Not sure what though.
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dead hard is totally fine. Still meta in most of the matches I’m in. MFT could probably use some slight buffs as it’s pretty useless in its current state
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Short answer no.
Old dh for distance was some of the most awful things to play against as a killer. I do not want to go back to the days, where there was a dh-thread literally every day. Sometimes two.
Mft …. no thanks. I like to play m1 killers.
While mft feels a bit underpowered at the moment, dh is in a very good spot right now.
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so made for this revert?
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I mean paired together they both are super strong; just use your dead hard for the endurance when you need it and boom, now you're in deep wound with your 3% speed boost with made for this.
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It would be cool on a DBD classic, but in the main game? Pls no
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God no, Dead Hard was braindead before its very deserved nerf and MFT was proven and demonstrated to be very, very overpowered as well
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MFT and DH never had any business being released as they were. Both were ridiculous. Killers being able to cause exhaustion doesn't make those perks okay. We don't need to force a weaker killer like Trapper to run exhaustion perks just to avoid getting bodied by OP nonsense.
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Mft turned me into a double iri Myers main.
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Could? always.
Should? absolutely not.
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Pre-6.1 dead hard "for distance" was too much, and it was good that they removed and reworked it.
After 6.1, having the extra restrictions but not losing your activation immediately was fine. The second round of dead hard nerf wasn't necessary. I'll also throw in that apparently when it comes to bleeding out slugs or camping a hook to tunnel someone out, that killers seem to suddenly have no problem "just waiting it out".
Made for this nerf was unjustified and just showed how many people either have no idea how to play the PVP side of the game or use their resources correctly as killer. This was further compounded by people spouting "forums math" to convince the devs that this perk did more than it actually does in a real match. It still pains me to think that this actually worked, but I guess the devs have to make sure that the game is enjoyable for all skill levels, including those who can't remember to turn their monitors on, apparently.
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DH is fine as it is, the only thing I would want for BHVR to look into is whether the DH animation changes a survivor's hitbox/movement speed, because killers often miss hits on players using DH in ways they would have not missed had the player not DH'd. Which is unlucky for the DH player because it often leads to them dying seconds later when otherwise their DH would have saved them.
Well, that and to look into server validation again, although that's much less of a DH-specific issue than it is a general hit authority issue they should be looking to revamp altogether.
MFT could however go up to 4 or even 5% Haste. Now that it is tied to Deep Wound it is not abusable - not only is it highly situational, but even if you do manage to get put into Deep Wound, the killer can opt not to chase you leaving you to have to mend and lose the perk's benefit again. It could even be argued that with 4/5% being less surreptitious of a speed difference and therefore allowing the killer to more easily notice and abort the chase until you have inevitably mended the change would balance itself.
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MFT being meta led to one of the worst metas the game has ever had for Killer players, killed M1 Killers dead, and ruined Killer diversity. It boosted Survivors to places they couldn't handle after it was nerfed and it was too impactful for most everything. As it is now, it's fine, and still decent as well as a deterrent to tunnelling if you're M1. It's fine now and doesn't need a change, it should never go back to how it was rest in piss it won't be missed.
DH probably was fine after its first rework but OLD old DH was as problematic as old MFT was. I don't think it should be touched again, it still works fine even with the activation conditions it has now.
No perk should ever completely negate a basic gameplay tool (lunging for DH) or require bringing certain perks or addons every game to avoid (MFT with exhaustion tools).
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bait?
- DH and MFT are still strong perks, but right now they are at a spot where you can at least call them balanced.
- Apart from old Eruption, first iteration of Ruin and maybe CoB + Overcharge meta there are no killer perks that are remotely close to the power of old DH and MFT
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Absolutely not. A rework would be more fitting if you ask me. I personally dislike any haste perks at least as long as haste stacking is a thing.
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See this is how I know the forums have an upvote bot issue after tons of the more salty Survivor Mains got banned from here and probably, made new accounts to upvote post. No sane, well rounded player would ever say we need old MFT and DH back, let alone nine of them, because everyone who has any experience at this game knows how bad and unhealthy those metas were for the game.
I would actually 100% say MFT meta was as bad for Killers as old 3gen meta was for Survivors, and I say this without a hint or shred of irony whatsoever, because I played through it and it was genuinely that awful for M1 Killers especially. You really had to be mobility and powerful as Killer or bring Exhaustion stuff every round, yes, it WAS that bad.
Anyone genuinely wanting this back is too new to know better, a troll looking to bait, or doesn't play enough Killer to understand why this perk cannot and should not ever go back to its original form in any way.
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"Apart from old Eruption, first iteration of Ruin and maybe CoB + Overcharge meta there are no killer perks that are remotely close to the power of old DH and MFT"
Self Care would like to have a word with you
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Idk how balanced it would be but I'd really like to see how original Dead Hard would perform if we kept the once-per-hook-state limitation
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In chaos shuffle yesterday i got DH and iron will and was like ok, iron will is my base kit perk but I usually do not run exhaust not even dh, so am like ok lets see if i got the old touch.
Sadly i had 2 useless perks because the killer got lucky and had languid touch so it just made both useless while being chased. But ofc its ok for killers to stack tons of haste crap but an issue if survivors have even a little 3%.
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Ill also add that with the upcoming changes to Deep Wound (with mending becoming automatic in chase) Made For This could certainly do with a change, however reverting it is not the answer, the nerf it received was justified.
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Lol, no
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MFT is still very good with OTR, or WGLF…
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Ptb circle of healing...
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My sweet child, we are referring to killer perks :(
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Gotcha
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But that was broken. Getting free speed just for being injured?
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Part of me is being funny but I really do love perks that give you passive effects for being injured.
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They were originally somewhere between extremely powerful and completely busted. New Dead Hard is fine and still good but original MFT just hurt the weaker killers without antiloop, such as Pig. Anything that discourages variety isn't good for the game.
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Except to make them better and more useful. Such as reveting them to a stronger version. And Im sure you agree, they were much stronger than today's iteration.
Yes, overtuned back then. But maybe not in today's environment. I'd be down for a ptb lol. /s
Tbf, both are good atm. MFT is a little less good.
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I wouldn't mind some more forum drama again 😈
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Gimme a line. Lets see what we can cook up lol.
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Fortunately, there are 100+ perks which just suck and need to be improved significantly, and they take priority over a perk that ruled the meta.
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I think the issue with this suggestion is that an inability to Exhaust survivors was never really the issue with either perk.
Post 6.1.0 Dead Hard was, as far as I can gather, mostly changed purely for experience-related reasons. A lot of players found it frustrating and overbearing to bait DH in every chase, and while I never really had that experience myself, I can understand why something would be changed on those grounds.
You could argue that more good Exhaustion tools means killer players wouldn't need to bait DH, but at that point we circle around the conversation around whether you should ever NEED to run specific perks just to handle something overbearing on the opponent's side. Probably not a safe bet to touch DH when it currently works perfectly fine, it's an entirely worthwhile perk.
Made For This had the major issue of stacking with other tools to create truly unfair levels of Haste that led to some survivors just not being catchable at all. I'm fully aware what the popular consensus was and is on this perk, and to be clear, I disagree with it: MFT on its own was never all that problematic since almost every killer had ways of dealing with it just in their power's basekit, and the ones that didn't could just play smarter to adapt.
You could revert MFT if you made an additional few changes to it to support it, though. I'd pitch it something like this:
- Made For This provides a 3% boost to movement speed while injured and running
- Made For This deactivates if you are Exhausted
- Made For This will not increase your movement speed above 3%; if something else has a higher number than that MFT simply doesn't do anything, and if something has a lower number than that MFT will raise it to 3% but no higher
Effectively, two major changes: It doesn't have Endurance at all, and you can't stack it with other tools to give crazy sustained boosts. It'd be a hyper-committal tool that defines your build because it necessarily boxes a ton of other tools out and has anti-synergy with them.
Still. That'd probably make people mad, so I don't see it happening. MFT isn't even bad right now, it's perfectly fine, so this kind of change isn't even necessary, just doable.
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