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I have an idea
Why don't we just give survivors just 1 hook state? May as well since every killer wants to slug slug slug! I mean slugging bypasses 8 hook states anyways so why even have 3 for each survivor?
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OK
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Why don’t you post some of your own killer gameplay so you can show us how easy it is to win with a 12-hook game. If you’re going to complain about killer tactics, then maybe you can help by showing killers how to play “the right way”.
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Im not entirely sure where slugging is so rampant. I play every evening for several hours and everyone seems to be downing and hooking like normal. Granted this is what I see on my experience but seeing mass slugs is super rare.
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I am glad people are talking about this boring killer tactics without giving any rest. BHVR should not ignore their playerbase and fix the issues they have. Slugging and tunnelling needs good nerfs.
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It's the typical survivors exaggerating about something that barely happens to try and get more buffs rather than learn counter play.
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Do you have any way to fix slugging without breaking the game? I haven't seen a single suggested fix that doesn't have massive issues with it.
Adding basekit UB makes it so you can just die on a pallet, and force the killer to chase another survivor that is nearby waiting to pallet save, then you can just get up for free.
Survivors getting moved to a 2v8 cage after a minute or so is also a bad fix, as it makes slugging survivors for a full minute mainstream gameplay. BHVR should be limiting how much time survivors spend unable to do anything, not encouraging it. One minute is better than four, but it's still a bad solution.
I get that being slugged is not fun. But how do you actually fix it without causing a bunch of other problems at the same time? Like it or not, this is a very difficult thing to fix.
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No no we need base kit unbreakable after 60 seconds. Killers shouldn't be leaving survivors slugged nearly that long anyways. If they are they are the culprits using scrubby slug tactics.
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This is mainly because most people don't care and hook because it's just how they play, but currently, statistically, it's better to hard slug if you're really going for a complete win. Makes me happy that I'm a mid-MMR person and not some streamer.
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Hello! I’m not the original poster but saw your question and I wanted to possibly discuss an idea for slugging with you. I want to preface by saying I am not of the opinion that slugging should be eradicated. I believe it needs to exist because it serves as a counter. Slugging is sometimes necessary when flashlights or sabo is in play. It’s a useful and important tool, but in my opinion just like any other tool in the game, it can be “abused” so to speak.
I think most people that want to discuss possible changes to slugging in good faith come to an agreement that the kind of slugging that’s problematic is full team slugs with intention of bleeding out. I have a suggestion that I think would make slugging like this still possible but more risky, and it doesn’t involve a base-kit UB. Making the slug proximity based.
For example, the Anti-Face Camp, it’s still possible to camp with it only you can’t blatantly be in the face, and the closer you get to the hooked survivor the faster the bar speeds up, and if other survivors are in proximity that bar progresses much slower. What if we take that same concept and put it to slugs (only reverse)? When a killer slugs a survivor, there is a radius around the slug. If the killer remains in that radius— nothing changes. This will allow a killer to defend a slug from a potential save. But if the killer leaves that radius of the slugged survivor, the survivors recovery bar speeds up. The farther away the killer gets, the faster the recovery bar speed fills. Now they will still need someone to pick them up at the end, it does not grant an automatic pick up like UB. But it makes for leaving the slug unattended more of a risk and discourages 4team slugging. If all the survivors are in the same place and happen to get slugged, this also doesn’t affect the killer. Because if one slug is near another the recovery bar will proceed as normal with no speed buff, so it is still a punishable mistake.
I believe this allows slugging to still remain as an important counter while discouraging full team slugging. Again, still possible but more risky, and I don’t believe is abusable because the killer is still in control of deciding to leave the slug or not. Much like the Anti-Face Camp, the killers proximity will determine if it ever comes into play, and does not work if another survivor is in the same radius.
Thoughts?
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yeah because bringing anti-slug builds only is fun…
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Why don't we just give users just 1 discussion? May as well since every poster wants to talk about slug slug slug! I mean posting bypasses 8 pre-existing slug posts anyways so why even have the option for each user?
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The 2v8 cage idea functionally adds 60 seconds to a survivor’s hook timer, makes it more difficult for the killer to camp, and makes it more difficult for the killer to slug for the 4k.
All the other solutions have a big double standard, that it’s “miserable” if slugging happens when it’s the killer’s decision, but it’s 100% ok if slugging happens when the survivors forced it upon the killer.
Slugging solutions should fix slugging problems on both sides of the game. And really, if anyone else has a better anti-slugging idea, that actually cares about both sides of the game, then please tell us what it is.
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It's an idea. But it wouldn't fix the issue of four minute bleed outs. Which is the biggest problem. I'd rather have something like basekit UB, and engineer some sort of basekit Blood Favour, so that killers can't slug until bleed out, but they can pick up survivors that have been downed in pallets.
I have no idea how to fine tune a system like that though. That would require a bit more time than I'm prepared to put in theorising. I'm just hoping BHVR has thought of something that I haven't.
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What happens if the killer leaves a slugged survivor, because the survivor team literally forced the killer to slug, and the killer literally can’t get the survivor to a hook?How is your solution address that problem in a way that is fair for the killer role?
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This
Record some matches of you playing as killer "The right way" and show us how well you do.
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That's true. My solution doesn't directly address four minute bleed outs. However I do think if the system were put in place, so survivor recovery was much faster, it would be much easier to ensure 4 man slugging wasn't as easy as it is now. If survivors are going against someone like Billy, Bubba, Blight, etc. very high mobility killers or insta down killers, then they shouldn't be grouped up together. And if they are, that is a mistake on their end, and I don't feel it's an issue if a killer should capitalize on that mistake. I don't agree with those same high mobility killers being able to slug the entire team despite the entire team adjusting their gameplay correctly when facing a high mobility killer, by being split up across the map. That is how I think a faster recovery would come in handy, as it's less time spent on the floor.
If the only issue you're concerned about is not the 4man slug but only being bled out for 4 minutes, then perhaps a bleed out button if the entire team is down for a collective amount of time. Enough time for an UB play, but once the window has passed, survivors have an option to simply bleed out faster.
My solution is more to prevent all 4 from being down more so than what to do once all 4 are down, as in my opinion if it comes with more risks it will be played less which will indirectly effect 4 min bleedouts overall beacuse it decreases the chances of the entire team being on the ground for those bleedouts to occur.
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I believe you and I have discussed this before, but I am open to talking about it again.
The recovery speed based on proximity wouldn't trigger immediately after a survvior is slugged. Only after the killer leaves the proximity of the slugged survivor. If multiple survivors are slugged together, it doesn't activate, the mechanic already accounts for proximity between slugs (just like anti-face camping).The scenario where survivors completely prevent a killer from hooking someone due to hook proxmity or map hook spawns should not only be extremely rare, but I do think wouldn't be affected by my solution at all. If there is a corner in a map where you can't bring a survivor to a hook (this shouldn't ever be possible, and if it is it should be changed immediately and I would like to know which specific map because I am unaware of this) then it doesn't matter how fast they recover or not if they can't be brought to a hook.
If the killer does find themeslves in a scenario where no hook is reachable due to a map layout, my suggestion wouldn't change that outcome. If a killer can't get a survvior to a hook due to the map lacking hooks then wether that slugged survivors recovery speeds up or slows down, wouldn't change the outcome much because the problem isn't the mehcanics or perks it's the design/layout of the map and again, should never happen and should be changed immediately. I do believe if this was a very common occurence, where killers couldnt bring survivors to hooks because the map didn't have enough or they were spaced too far, we would be seeing many people complain about this (rightfully so). But in these discussions for slugging, it is not common for the reasoning being an inability to get to a hook. It's usually about the effort in slugging compared to hooking not being comparable when the results are the same, especially with slugging being able to deny perks from ever activating.
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Anti slugging solutions should be helping survivors when the slugging is the killer’s choice, and helping killers when the slugging is forced upon the killer.
You’re basically helping survivors, but doing absolutely nothing to help killers. That’s not fixing slugging for both sides of the game.5 -
This would also be the most direct way to deal with the "go next" problem of dying on first hook: now everyone dies on first hook. Woo! It's what both sides want.
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One hook state didn't stop killers from slugging in My Little Oni
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Just bring back the og ebony mori and make it basekit.
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This suggestion is entirely activated upon the killer's choice. I really don't see how making recovery speed increase with killers distance is any way abusable. If the killer stays to defend the slug, nothing changes. Killers don't currently need help to slug, the goal isn't to make slugging easier.
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Slugging isn't always the killer's choice, and you're punishing killers even if it wasn't their choice to slug.
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I disagree that it is a punsihment, it is a risk. Every tool should have risks. Killers can still slug strategically but they won't benefit from leaving survivors slugged across the map for an extended period of time. If a killer is forced to slug its due to sabo or flashlight the recovery speed wouldn't change. This mechanic only triggers when leaving the slug completely unattended.
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If a killer is forced to slug, and they leave the slug, they get punished even though they literally can’t hook the survivor.
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No base kit/automatic pickups. Survivors DO NOT NEED another base kit second chance. Behavior has TRIED this and it was an awful idea. The only objectively correct solution is a give up/faster bleedout. That's literally it.
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You don’t have to leave the slug. It’s your choice to leave the slug.
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I think you may be mistaken. Nowhere in my suggestion did I suggest an automatic pickup. I’m actually against a basekit BT.
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So, here's the thing. I quoted the wrong post. And now I can't edit the original. I BHVR'd myself.
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same here. I play survivor about half the time and it is pretty rare that I see killers intentionally bleed everyone out. I think a lot of these complaints are coming from players who have never played killer. They get super mad anytime they get slugged or tunneled because don’t understand that there are certain situations where tunneling or slugging is the best play for the killer. They definitely never provide any suggestions for how killers can maintain competitiveness in matches without ever slugging or tunneling.
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Surprising to see killer mains here push back against you suggesting survivors only have one hook state, OP. I thought they would be thrilled by the thought of easier games.
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Ah, haha no worries, it happens.
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If the killer is forced to slug, and literally can't hook the slugged survivor, then why is the killer being punished for leaving the slugged survivor?
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It's almost like we want fun and challenging games that are still winnable if played well. Absolutely shocking.
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There is no situation in which a killer is forced to slug and their best interest is to leave the slugged survivor to go across the map. It is in your best interest to defend the slug if you want to keep it a slug.
If you’re slugging because you can’t hook, staying near the slug keeps your pressure and ensures the survivor can’t recover quickly, the exact same way slugging works currently.
If you decide to leave, you’re intentionally giving up that pressure. That is your choice to leave. The proposed mechanic only introduces a risk to lose the slug if the slug is abaondoned, not the act of slugging itself.
This would only encourages strategy, not punishment.
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If a survivor is slugged, and the killer literally can't hook them, and the killer sees a survivor nearby… it is absolutely in their best interest to chase that survivor instead. And if that survivor runs away from the slugged survivor, then it's in the best interest for the killer to keep chasing them anyway.
It also doesn't answer the question of "why are we fixing the slugging problems that negatively affect survivors, but not fixing the slugging problems that negatively affect killers"?
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And then what? Killers slugging ramps up even more and then there's 700 posts about Survivors "bleeding next" to get out of a miserable match.
The core issue is that the matches are miserable and Killers shouldn't be allowed to slug like that without heavy consequence, it's only viable as a reason to combat SWF so it's completely apparent that SWF need a hard nerf and Killer core mechanics need a rebalance.You can't keep bandaid fixing issues with issues that will cause more issues. Treat the source of the wound.
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If someone nearby is by the slug, absolutely it’s in the best interest to get them, But I said across the map. If you’re across the map then you can’t defend that slug, and will be picked up even in the current state of the game.But when it come to not being able to hook, I thought we discussed the slugging issues with killer being hook proximity or hooks in general, and that if there aren’t enough hooks for the slug that it’s a map issue and should 100% be addressed. If a killer can’t get a slug to a hook because of this, then the conversation should be about hook spacing, and hook count, to ensure every map has a hook nearby. I believe that’s why they ensured that hooks would respawn even after death of survivors, to ensure there would be no dead hook zones.
If the issue is that killers can’t get to a hook then it has nothing to do with slugging or slugging perks or slugging perk mechanics and everything to do with map layout, and hook placement.
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Oh Ayodam… Ayodam, Ayodam, Ayodam smh… If only you knew the horrible truth. It doesn’t go far enough!
All of us forum Killer mains are in the hallowed heights of the most elite mmr imaginable, always playing at the super secret 2nd soft-cap. What we want is for all Survivors except one to spawn on death hook while the one solo starts broken but marked by Killer instinct from the start. That way we can prove our pristine skill expression even further.
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I don't really play survivor, but I can say from my perspective that I only really do that when the survivors are heavely missplaying. Outside from this kind of heavy missplays I never really see a reason to slug as a way to win, at most I let one person on the ground because I have to go somewhere else.
Last time was 2 days ago with huntress on the map from unknown, they were all injured and running through the middle of the map without any cover. They didn't let me leave the area and I got the last 3 of them down while one was at the hook, and therefore won the match.
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Opinions are mixed. Wheelofcheese is howling about killers wanting fun & challenging games during a slugging epidemic. Many killers are tunneling off hook, and at least half just straight up camp. Perhaps the best of you should have a conversation with the least of you.
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