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My thoughts on the Nurse

It's been a while since the Nurse has received an update, and I suppose I just want to throw out what I think about her and how I think she could be improved to be a bit more fair.

For context: I enjoy the Nurse. I enjoy playing her, and she is one of my favorite killers to play against. I feel that Nurse brings something to the game that no other killer does - she is unique and completely changes the way chases are played. But having said that, she is the strongest killer for a reason, and I think there are a few problems with her and things that should be changed. Those are:

  • Add aura-Blindness while charging a blink and while blinking. Basically, the fact that she can see survivors' auras while using her power is problematic. This is a significant change, but I think it's necessary, and this is why:
    • There are really 3 main strategies to counter the Nurse in chase:
      • 1. Making distance and getting as far away from her as possible since she is slower than survivors.
      • 2. Breaking line of sight.
      • 3. Being as unpredictable as possible.
    • These 3 forms of counterplay work well enough together in tandem, but effects that let you see survivors' auras basically remove #2 as a counterplay option entirely and make #1 much more difficult. Since the way the Nurse attacks survivors is different from pretty much any other killer, it makes aura reading particularly powerful on her, to a degree where seeing a survivor's aura is often just an almost guaranteed hit that the survivor doesn't always have a fair chance to predict or react to. This change is not intended to eliminate aura reading on her completely - she will still be able to use information perks like BBQ to find survivors, or use aura perks in chase to see where survivors are going BEFORE beginning to charge a blink, but she will no longer be able to perfectly react to a survivor's movements behind walls while charging and using her power - and this is something survivors can keep in mind as well when deciding their next move (there would no longer be a question of "I broke line of sight, can she still see me or not?"). Aura-reading ability would be restored once the Nurse has fully gone into fatigue (ie. once the Nurse player's screen has shifted all the way down, she can see auras again). This reduces the power of aura-reading on the Nurse, but without removing it as an option entirely and preserves the ability to use those perks in some capacity, rather than restricting her perk choices even further than they already are.
  • Make stuns result in losing all blink charges, with recharge not starting until the stun ends. While pallet stuns are fairly rare in Nurse games, the occasional pallet stun isn't even that impactful since a lot of the time she can just blink on you immediately after. This change makes those stuns a bit more rewarding and also makes Decisive Strike more effective against her. Even if you use DS on a Nurse, she'll get her power back while picking up and during the stun animation and be ready to go as soon as the stun ends, so it's not uncommon to go down again almost immediately. With this, she has to wait an additional 6 seconds after the stun before getting both her blinks back.

Then, for addons, I'm focusing here on 3 of her best addons as well as her #1 worst addon.

  • Heavy Panting is easily one of the Nurse's strongest addons, giving her a 30% increased lunge range after any chain blink. This can be thrown onto pretty much any build and give good value every game, making the Nurse's chain blinks even more forgiving and easier to hit as it allows her to be less accurate, and is overall too strong. I think it would be best to rework this entirely and not give out any amount of extra lunge to her so unconditionally, Nurse's power is strong enough as it is and she should be required to be fairly accurate with it.
  • Fragile Wheeze is a quite reliable source of healing slowdown on an S-tier killer. Inflicting Mangled for 70s on every blink attack is a fairly consistent way to slow down healing given the Nurse's fast-paced nature, and while this addon isn't very different from some similar addons on some other killers, I think given that Nurse is the strongest killer in the game her addons should be a bit weaker than most other killers. With that in mind, while I don't think this addon needs a huge nerf, I would like to see its duration reduced by 10 seconds to bring it down to the lower end of the timer durations generally used for mangled addons; most of them don't go lower than 60 seconds, and I think that's more appropriate for this addon in particular combined with the fact that unlike most other similar addons this one does not have hemorrhage (which is a good thing, it shouldn't have it).
  • Torn Bookmark gives the Nurse an unconditional 3rd blink charge for not enough of a downside. Getting 3 blinks is an absurdly powerful effect even for an iridescent addon, and while it does increase the blink recharge time by 30%, this is only an extra 0.9 seconds per blink which is not really enough to justify its power. Personally, I don't think 3 blink Nurse is fair at all (it makes her way too easy) and I'd be perfectly happy to see this reworked as well, but if not, then it should at least have a bigger recharge penalty, if you miss a survivor with 3 blinks there should be a severe consequence.
  • Last but not least, Dull Bracelet is a terribly weak and uninteresting addon and should be reworked. This is the yellow meme addon which reduces the maximum blink range by 20%. The Nurse has 3 meme addons - the other 2 can be fun to use on occasion (4.6 walking Nurse) and/or offer a way for extremely good players to willingly challenge themselves (reduced blink lunge which requires more accuracy), but this one does neither of those things and we really don't need a 3rd meme addon. I'm not saying make it strong (again, Nurse's addons shouldn't be that powerful, and certainly don't make it an increased range instead, we all know how unbalanced that was), but it should have a more interesting effect.

So that's it, that's a list of changes I'd like to see made to DBD's most powerful killer, and I think these changes tone her down a bit but still keep her as a strong killer and preserves her identity and the things that make Nurse the unique character she is. What do you think?

Comments

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 4,970
    edited February 2025

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    I wanted to add more than just saying "yes"... but... yes.

    Triple Blink Nurse has a trophy/achievement, so that would probably need to stay, but agree it needs an appropriate downside.

    While we're here I'd like to open the floor to ideas to make Nurse more accessible for newer players... that would be the only part of Nurse still a problem to my mind. Something like:

    • Fatigue only dipping your view only slightly, but making survivors, scratch marks and blood spatters invisible to you while you recover would be nice. At least a newbie Nurse can keep looking around and keep an idea where they are at least.

    However it's kinda in Spirits territory... maybe if Survivors went invisible like Wraith, shimmer at close range, but invisible over a certain distance while in fatigue, since Nurse and Wraith's powers are linked?

    That might be a cool piece of lore to link them.

    Post edited by UndeddJester on
  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 2,826

    Yeah I feel my issues with nurse would be gone if she was punished for making mistakes more, the lunge addon is my biggest dislike from her recent addon pass

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,643

    She is already massively punished for mistakes, missed lunges cost Nurse dearly with a very long fatigue. She has no recharge or range addons now (which is fine) so if you miss a blink a survivor can potentially drag out a chase by simply holding W as you recover from fatigue and recharge. If you played a lot of Nurse you understand mistakes are brutal for Nurse, she cant afford to miss any blinks.

    I honestly think a complete redesign from the ground up is the only way to fix her, as a teleporting power just breaks too many of the games core chase mechanics and she is at the point her base power cant be nerfed any further or she would be unplayable.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,643

    Agreed, I was a Nurse main for years and eventually I reached the point where it just felt lame playing her. I love the character but I realised that a complete rework is necessary, as the base design is broken and you cannot fix something that is fundamentally flawed. It is the same problem with killers like SM or Twins but for different mechanical reasons, however they all share the problem that their fundamental design is broken and would have to be changed from the ground up if their issues are to be solved.

    Frankly, I cant see BHVR doing that much work as there is no profit in it, sad but true

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 4,970
    edited February 2025

    I honestly think a complete redesign from the ground up is the only way to fix her, as a teleporting power just breaks too many of the games core chase mechanics

    I not 100% convinced on that argument though. Yeah she circumvents a lot of the usual mechanic, but she does also have mind games that are unique to her, that would be a massive shame to lose by making her homogenous to the rest of the cast.

    The said, the clear points that ARE a problem still were highlighted well in the OP:

    • Auras completely remove the Nurse's unique mind games, and on a good Nurse is a guaranteed hit.
    • Stunning her is hard and rare, and yet even if you pull it off, she just blinks and hits you immediately after. Also true of DS.
    • Heavy Panting makes her second blink much easier to hit, which combined with the double blink playstyle, makes even a bad blink (as a result of a miss or Nurse mind games) still a hit.
    • Torn Bookmark turns even a missed/mind gamed second blink into a hit for barely any downside.

    The other add-on changes I agree with changing, but those I feel could be lived with, so I wont fight too hard for them, however these issues are all that remains as problem elements of her design... and the common thread is either that she can't make a mistake, or that even if she makes a mistake, she still gets the hit.

    The thing is a lot of Nurse's are making full use of these things, so she feels like she's unsalvagely overpowered. However fixing these issues would mean her unique gameplay and counterplay is always honoured, and when you actually get to use counterplay against Nurse, she is a lot of fun to face.

    So in agreement with the OP, the changes she needs are:

    • Blind during charge and blink
    • Resetting her tokens on stun and only recharging on recovery.
    • Rework Heavy Panting. My vote would be give it a charge after you hit with a unchained blink, so your next chain blink gains the effect.
    • Rework Torn Notebook. My vote would be to have the current effect but, on hitting a survivor you expend all charges regardless of the number of blinks and must recharge max charges to blink again. This means after a hit her longer cooldown is always a tangible 11.7s.

    I believe then Nurse is more or less perfect. Strong, unique, but always giving real chances for counterplay. Just the fact DS would meaningfully do something vs. her would be a big deal.

  • NarkoTri1er
    NarkoTri1er Member Posts: 1,366

    all of these would be really good changes, especailly blindness during blink charging, because without it, Nurse has completely op synergy with NTH and Predator for example.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,643

    Blind during charge and blink?! I cannot believe people actually think this is a reasonable suggestion lmao… she will be completely unplayable. Resetting her tokens on stuns is also unreasonable, if she misses a lunge she has to endure an extended fatigue (that its suggested she is blind during?!), she then has to almost certainly use another two blinks to get a hit and if the survivor is not injured, another fatigue and another two blinks to get the down.

    I have no real opinion on addons as I never used them personally, other than perhaps the Spoon and I used to like using the Matchbox and sending myself to Lery's for a challenge.

    With those suggestions, you may as well just rework her as you will make her completely unplayable. She has already been nerfed as much as she can as far as her basic mechanic kit goes. The only other suggestion I could make is that certain aura perks don't work on her, as they make her zero skill when you have auras from Predator etc.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 4,970
    edited February 2025

    Blind during charge and blink?!

    When you read blind... did you think actually blind as in screen goes black?

    Cause I'm talking about the Blind status condition... where you can't see auras... which is exactly what you said at the end... so I think this is just a misunderstanding.

    Resetting her tokens on stuns is also unreasonable, if she misses a lunge she has to endure an extended fatigue

    If you stuns her with a pallet as she blinks, or stun her with DS, she isn't in fatigue...and this is something that is a high risk for the survivor to even attempt. It's common knowledge that windows and pallets are not effective against Nurse, so how on earth does having a power get reset when getting stunned by a pallet make her unplayable? If you stun a Nurse with flashlights, pallets or DS, you should be rewarded for it.

    I dont see where it would be broken, cause you can't stun her in fatigue, so the only way to stun her out of fatigue is if she blinks on pallet and then doesn't move out from it during fatigue.

    I think you've misunderstood something again.

    With those suggestions, you may as well just rework her as you will make her completely unplayable. She has already been nerfed as much as she can as far as her basic mechanic kit goes.

    I'm guessing alot of this stance is simply a misunderstanding, but while saying "Rework her" isn't inherently bad... its not very useful…re work her into what? Ambiguously saying "Rework her" with no qualifier leaves nothing to discuss...

    You need to at the very least give a rough idea where a rework should go, cause a "rework" could mean literally anything, and sure our imaginations could create something completely new, maybe even better... but that would not be a good direction because she already has her fans, and any change should still be identifiable as Sally Smithson the Nurse from DBD.

    This set of changes are reasonable nerfs that preserves her unique gameplay without gutting her. You said yourself she is too easy to play, well these changes give her some consistent weaknesses and counterplay she has to be wary of.

  • sizzlingmario4
    sizzlingmario4 Member Posts: 7,856

    While I can't test it since I already have the achievement, I think in theory the achievement would still be possible using Jenner's Last Breath. Though that is a bit more obscure so I would understand if the devs do not want to tie it to that specifically.

    Yeah, the extra lunge turns chain blinks which should be misses into hits that she shouldn't really be given considering how strong she is, that's part of my issue with it as well.

    I feel like her actual miss cooldown/recharge time is fine and isn't really the problem with her (though the old recharge addons were problematic and were rightfully removed). Missed chain blinks just need to actually result in a miss instead of getting bailed out by 30% increased lunge with zero downside or prerequisite that she didn't actually earn.