General Discussions
General Discussions
Uh oh 😥 bots are in 2v8 lobbies now
Comments
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I read the Epic article, it says exactly what the OP does. Nothing about waiting a certain amount of time. I'd assume that by "every lobby" they mean every lobby. Alot of the info in the article is pretty specific, so it doesn't seem to just be someone's assumptions. Seems they have accurate info.
Post edited by Rizzo on11 -
Welp…that kills 2v8 for me. It's a shame. I was looking forward to it.
Post edited by Rizzo on15 -
I think its rather funny that people think this will fix que times. Because it seems like a large amount of the survivors dont want to play with bots. So dispite getting 2 free spots with bots. You will have less players participating… because of the bots. I could totally see this go the opposite direction and the que times get even worse. Especially after round or two of seeing how useless bots are with 2 killers playing.
Post edited by Rizzo on15 -
The funny part is, you can't play the normal game either 😂 since everyone is gonna be hyping up 2v8 or not playing at all. Rather then giving duo killers and swfs a seperate queue, they added bots. W planning
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
I log onto a multiplayer game to play with other people. I have no desire to vs. AI. If I want to do that, I'll go play Elden Ring again.
Post edited by Rizzo on9 -
They had many options, for example:
• Use a quickplay system for people that don't care which side they get.
• Make it so after playing multiple survivor matches, you get a priority in queue as a reward.
• Make the bloodpiont gains on survivor bigger (400% incentive, higher overall bloodpint gains in game...)
• Take an example out of FT13: The Game and make it so you can only have a set preference on which role you want to play.
But no, we have to put bots in to make it a 2v5 or 2v6.
Post edited by Rizzo on11 -
BHVR, please have mercy and don't do this.
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Same. There is no way I'll queue up just to have 2 bots on my team that are absolutely useless. Once I'm done with the tome, I'm also done with the mode.
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I no longer have any desire to queue up for this mode. Bots are incredibly weak, weaker than the average soloq teammate, and getting 2 of them means it's gg already for the killers.
Post edited by Rizzo on10 -
Good.
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one more reason not to play it lol
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I need high BP bonus to play with those bots
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I think bots would be fine, if bots got additional basekit perks with the goal to help/support the real players:
- We'll Make It
- We're Gonna Live Forever
- Shoulder the Burden (minus the exposed)
- Prove Thyself
- Empathic Connection
At least if the bots are gonna sacrifice themselves for me, or make up for their lack of map awareness with good abilities, it'd still be managable.
I figure you could give them Escapist and effectively just make a "Bot build" for 2vs8 that is purely focused on helping the bots be effective support for survivors
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They are adding legion at the same time they're adding 2 bots to matches, imagine doing your best just for the brainless bots to gift chain hits to the legion.
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Just going to drop in here to clarify about the bots being in the 2v8 lobbies. We know the queue times for killers were hard on the previous iterations, we're going to try to alleviate those long queue times by adding UP TO 2 bots, they WILL NOT be in every lobby but only when / where needed.
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I don't see how having 2 bots will do much because most solo queue players play like them anyways.
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Man, Rizzo had to edit a LOT of posts lol. Busy busy busy!
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That's two teammates that won't give up on you.
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Unless it's endgame at which point they'll open gates and leave xD
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And will perpetually run in circles between 2 terror radius or bug out trying to navigate the map and handle wesker spray bottles.
I'd rather have a teammate give up than be gaslit into thinking i actually have a chance to escape with bots. Bots just prolong a lost match so the killer can farm more points.
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A teammate that misses skill checks when you most need it
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I don’t want bots in 2v8 period. I don’t give a damn how little or often they appear in my matches.
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well, looks like this is confirmed by BHVR. I am 100% out. This is a terrible idea and many, many others on the forum have expressed this opinion as well. We are ruining the survivor experience to give killers a little bit shorter queues. It’s very sad because I had a lot of fun playing 2v8 (both killer and survivor) during previous events.
Honestly I don’t know why anyone bothers to provide feedback on anything. BHVR have shown time and time and time again that they are going to do what they want regardless of how the community responds. You know what would result in even shorter queue times for killers? Having all 8 survivor players be bots. Why don’t we just do that?10 -
don’t bother asking them to change their minds. The response to this has been overwhelmingly negative but they’re going to do it anyway. This is the way that BHVR have handled all major changes in the past.
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yeah exactly, these DBD developers should be embarrassed of themselves. They do nothing but wanna divide each side and only care about taking our money instead of looking at the bigger picture. We try to speak out about the BS that happens in this game and they silence us. They don’t care about what we think. Because at the end of the day if players keep giving them money they won’t do anything to make this game better. It’s time to show them we’ve had enough.
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Bots will also use all the antidote immediately in any Wesker/Nemesis matches. Anytime someone DCs in match v Wesker or Nemesis the killer will infect the bot and then leave it alone knowing it's going to head straight to an antidote and use them all up. They don't try to use it strategically like a real person.
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Addons only change killer powers. But for offerings I think they should let all other offerings used though just not anniversary cakes. Last time the 150% bp bonus was not much at all.
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Typo on my part, I meant offerings instead of addons.
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To be fair to BHVR, we represent a tiny fraction of the player base (and a weirdly dedicated one at that).
So while a majority on the forums might be dead set against adding bots to 2 Vs 8, there might not be a huge negative reaction beyond here. Lots of games already use bots to shorten queues, so it's not going to be a big deal to a lot of players.
Besides, I don't think the bots will be as bad as people think. I suspect a lot of Survivors in 2 Vs 8 are pretty new to the role anyway and bots might be a little bit more active as teammates. It's such a chaotic, low stakes, casual mode that many players probably find it to be a good way to dip their toe into playing Survivor for the first time.
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To be fair to BHVR, we represent a tiny fraction of the player base (and a weirdly dedicated one at that).So while a majority on the forums might be dead set against adding bots to 2 Vs 8, there might not be a huge negative reaction beyond here.This is definitely a possibility.
I suspect a lot of Survivors in 2 Vs 8 are pretty new to the role anyway and bots might be a little bit more active as teammates.This creates its own problems.
1: Bots don't play fair (kind of obvious being they aren't humans). If they actually pose a challenge to killers, that's not really fun either. I neither want to play against or be carried by a wall hacking bot.
2: There's a difference between being angry at another human, and being angry at code. The first scenario is part of multiplayer games, the second makes you angry at the devs themselves.
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Left on hook/cage during end game by human: they must've had a challenge to escape or maybe have had a few rounds where they haven't escape, sucks but that's fine.
Left on hook/cage during end game by bot: why are they devs programming bots to be selfish and save themselves instead of helping the real players???
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If bots got you to end game then they did better than most randoms.
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Yeah probably just not going to play. I did like 2v8 gameplay as a survivor but if a quarter of my teammates are the same IQ as the zombies I'm out. There could've been solutions regarding the queue times that weren't wildly unpopular, but here we are.
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They're probably going to be more like the ones on live servers and less like the ones in custom matches, so I doubt they will be too difficult for most Killers to deal with.
That said, I do wish maybe they'd tried something else before resorting to bots, even if it is the most obvious and easy solution.
Anyway, I don't take 2 Vs 8 very seriously and the games are typically so short that wining or losing won't matter so much if queues are quick enough for both sides to get a game. But if it still makes almost no difference to queue times then I would be against bots in 2 Vs 8.
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Then congrats to the devs. You just kicked out a good portion of your playerbase if this is gonna happen, unless you were able to set bots on par with a real player. Cause, right now, bots are unable to be of any help in a normal game.
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If they make the bots smarter, I don't think it will be bad. Maybe adjust the AI based on the skill level of the killer. I consider 2v8 a BS farm mode and don't take it seriously at all, anyways. I mostly play it to hang out with DBD buddies that don't feel like playing standard DBD anymore.
I do think they can make the bot matches a little bit more interesting though, like having them be commandable by a team captain or maybe let them be extra effective in support roles.
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"Honestly I don’t know why anyone bothers to provide feedback on anything"
I've pretty much stopped bothering. The Wake Up! nerf was the final straw for me. They're out of touch with their playerbase.
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This is not the solution I prefer, but, if it means I actually get to play killer sometimes, I'll try it. Last 2v8 it was basically impossible to get a killer match.
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Your a lost cause then if your trusting an epic article
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I actually was cause the abilities were a lot of fun good try making that a diss though
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Then what's your point? I liked the last version of 2v8 as well and would be quite happy as well if returned as is, even though I think there are plenty of improvements that can be made.
The group that needs to be convinced to play survivors, are the ones who currently play killer.
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because it’s probably built to a degree off a self learning model meaning its reactions are built off its time with player interactions. In short if most people didn’t leave the bots in that scenario the bot wouldn’t leave you, but bc the bot in its game got mostly left behind it will mostly leave you. That’s how that works. I’m not being funny but it’s how self learning works. A bot reaction of the own players making….
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It was a rhetorical question in an example based off what crogers271 was saying.
When it comes to feelings in the moment of gameplay people are going to be mad at the devs for bot behaviors since the devs can go in and tweak the AI behavior. BHVR did it when it comes to missed skill checks - when bots first came out the devs set the skill check miss to a % that basically made bots nonstop miss, they adjusted the % and while they still miss often in comparison it's not as bad as when they first came out.
The devs have the ability to change the priority of the bots when someone is on hook in end game. If bots were learning what people do in game they'd be sitting in the exit gate waiting for the killer to come over and chase them out, not run straight out the moment an exit opens with the killer no where near. The devs designed the code so when gens are finished the bots prioritize opening the gate and immediately leave so killers don't have to put up with bots hanging out in the exit until they chase them out, the priority to leave also removes end game saves so if a killer is practicing with bots in customs they don't feel crappy from bots going for end game unhooks that result in an escape. Unfortunately the leave priority the devs have set also causes them to leave real survivors to die on hook.
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Yeah I'm sure they can make the bots come back for people on the hook at endgame. I don't know if they should though. That's a lot of if/then/priority statements that can turn into a buggy mess really quick or you end up in situations where now you have bots ripping people off hooks mid game with the killer right behind them. There's a lot of things to consider not to mention that there's a very real HUMAN player also on the other team trying to get kills. Should the devs program the bots to function like a swf bot? BC most survivors read the room and if the room doesn't look safe they just leave unless you're swf. Like if they gave survivors this where would it stop bodyblocks, flashlight saves? It's not that I don't think they can, it's that I don't think they should. If survivors in a normal match don't usually go back for each other bc normally the killer is hanging out by the person on the hook why should they go through all the effort to give the advantage to survivor? it's not normal/average survivor behavior. Not to mention that the bot saving could very much play out to be escaping with you, and now the person playing killer also is losing another kill and out bp. I'm just saying, I know it sucks to watch the bot run out, but maybe it's for the best. Idk would that feel fair to you? Personally it doesn't bother me because it's a bot with brakes on it, and I get that. I'm not going to go back and forth about whether it's self learning to a degree or not I've read the bot fixes and laughed uncontrollably. Though to see where they started and what they are doing with them now is assuring to me at least that they are cooking, let them cook. Pretty sure they are still teaching them how to use perks atm and interact with killer powers training AI takes a while. It's not some thing that happens in like 2 hrs. You know those images that say "are you a human" or "making sure you're not a robot" that's companies getting you to train their AI for them to recognize images. Idk if you know that and that's just like basic Machine Learning AI, it's what helped build pattern recognition for unlocking your phone with your face.
Post edited by HeroLives on0 -
The priority the devs set for bots is going to upset a very real HUMAN player no matter which side. Just as it might not feel fair to a killer if a survivor is rescued and escapes during endgame, it doesn't feel fair as survivor watching a bot escape while you (a very real HUMAN) are now losing out on BP (more than a killer gets from a single kill) and guaranteed to die (if someone is saved during endgame a killer still has a chance of getting the kill). YOU may be OK with it because YOU are going to rationalize the whole background of AI learning and give devs a pass in what they choose to tweak or not tweak. The average player is going to get upset with the devs because if they (the very real HUMAN player) loses after a bot escaped or helped someone else escape it is because that is how the devs have programmed the bot to behave.
As for the "normal/average survivor behavior" - in 2v8, where they will be using 2 bots, it is extremely common in solo queue for people to be making end game saves because of the way the cages work and there being 3 doors. Bots will literally run by, ignoring a cage next to a door, to open the door and immediately run out. A very real human player will usually stop to uncage someone, maybe even give them a quick heal. The bots ignoring people in cages, especially those right next to them, once the last gen finishes has and will continue to frustrate the very real HUMAN players on the side that actually needs players so bad that they are adding bot fills. The very real players will be frustrated with the devs who have programmed the bots behavior and decided to use bot fills, that frustration will carry over into next match because every bot in a lobby will be programmed to do the same thing. The only way to not have bot filled lobbies is get a team of 8 (which isn't realistic) because the devs aren't doing anything to encourage more people to play the survivor role. If it was a real person that left someone in a cage to instead open a door and run out it would be frustration with that one person and you'd move on hoping you wouldn't get matched with them again because as a very real human you know that other very real humans all play differently.
As for AI machine learning, yes I know how it works. It genuinely does not matter in this scenario where people will get upset with devs over how a bot behaves. You can keep explaining how AI learning and programming works but it does not matter when in the end the devs gave their stamp of approval when it comes to the current state of bots behavior in public matches - the devs are who the players will be mad at when they get frustrated with bots.
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If they have a 400% bp incentive to play survivor, id do it. These past iterations were dog water when it came to bp, especially since you cant bring offerings. Trust that if theyd just bump the incentive, people would play that side more. And id be able to prestige my characters faster.
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I hope you read that over and over again and listen to yourself. It's still a no from me, and I'll be in those survivor trenches with the bots. Agree to disagree.
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Ah, thank you so much for that clarification! That makes me feel much better!
Aaah that makes a lot more sense! LOL I was thinking "Dang, people are being so naughty in this thread and Rizzo is overworked!" but glad it's much more mundane. :)
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I'm fine with bots, it's a necessary evil. Queue times were the main problem, and there aren't really other options.
Just like previous iterations, the forum is frankly being overdramatic, I doubt it's representative of the actual playerbase for anything 2v8-related. The last survey specifically asked if players were okay with bots to alleviate queue times. So, if BHVR actually ends up implementing it, it's likely that most people voted yes.
I trust the 2v8 dev team personally since the previous iterations were really huge Ws. Bots might backfire and not help with queue times but there's no other way to know than to try. If survivor ends up too weak, that can easily be addressed later.
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