General Discussions
General Discussions
Why is Bhvr. trying to destroy their game by making phase one all killer-sided changes.
This game is killer sided enough as it is as every non-biased player knows, so why is Bhvr. nerfing survivor even more by forcing solo survivors to spawn together so we can be wiped out by a Billy with lethal at the start of the match. In addition they want to make it impossible to hide at endgame and all, basically just give the killer free kills, and they want to try and punish players who refuse to be forced to stay in every 12 year old killer main's sado fantasy.
I understand that Phase 2 will supposedly add more survivor sided changes, but wouldn't it make more sense to mix it up rather than being like "well we're going to completely destroy gameplay for one side, but its okay we'll make it more even a few months later." Good luck keeping survivors even playing until then.
As a more general question, why is everyone on the forums getting so excited about this? It's like you guys forget this is Bhvr. we're talking about. Bhvr. must have read how so many people were posting about how dbd needs some sort of health initiative, and they decided to just announce one, knowing that no one will pay attention to what's actually in it. They were exactly right, they have been showered with praise by the unwashed masses, and anyone with reservations, even slight ones, is being shouted down.
Everything we know about Bhvr's history, as well as what changes have already been described, shows clearly that this will likely be a disaster. Even if Bhvr. eventually gets the game somewhere closer to right, going by the kinds of changes they've announced so far it's going to be a long time till then. So go right ahead thinking Bhvr. has suddenly figured it all out, I'll just stay cynical so I'm not disappointed once again.
Comments
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Honestly, if they do it properly, the Go Next prevention will result in a lot more winnable games for Survivors.
The only "killer-sided" change is the Spawn Rule changes, and I don't think that'll have all that significant of an effect except at the top level of play. The rest either affect both sides equally, or are pure QOL to fix the most egregious game states like bleedouts or hiding forever in a 2v1.
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Not everyone is getting excited or least not me. I had long lost trust in bvhr when it has anything to do with survivors. All I see is this game will soon turn to a virtual boot camp of forcing people to play unwinnable matches and what not.
The big indication already show that survivor aura reveal when its the last 2 hiding, which I guess bvhr themselves dont know what survival mean.
Another lame part is they do not look at killer slugging third person to look for the forth person which I find is holding the game hostage just like the last 2 survivors hiding.
Lost how many times when it's just me and one other person and I willingly show myself to say hey end me and let me moved on but am slugged, or they try let me wiggle off to expose the hiding person which am not and will work on a gen instead only to be grabbed and thrown down.
Yet if I was to do try to reveal the fourth survivor wouldn't that not be considered me working with th killer which is reportable? You see things like this just makes no sense and its just nothing but hypocrisy.
Post edited by buggybug on7 -
Yea if they go ahead with the spawn change and don't adjust Lethal, that is an absolutely terrible oversight.
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...Can you give killers a break? Every little detail and idiosyncrasy killers have is scrutinized, blown out of proportion, and made out to be a bad thing. Like you're doing here, thinking of the worst possible scenario these changes could lead to. Any killer can Lethal and wipe out any team at the start, as long as the team is that bad. Aura isn't free kills; just because the killer sees you doesn't mean he gets you. And is that rage quit justification, too? You're really not helping your cause.
We've done the "survivor buffs first" approach for years, and it isn't working. I mean it is, for survivors, but they're completely ungrateful. Literal free BT + Haste off hook, and they boil it down to "doing nothing." That kind of ingratitude. What we've basically seen is an attempt to make the uncarryable solos beat good killer players, through these changes and through forced mismatches, which doesn't do a thing except make the game more broken in the favor of survivors who know what they're doing, especially SWF/bully squads. It's killers who've been told, "Yeah, they're getting all this stuff, but we'll balance it out eventually." We're still waiting. Maybe with this "killer sided" set of changes, well see something, anything.
I told BHVR good job because they're actually doing something this time, they're actually trying. They've got a plan, a vision. But as part of it, you're getting MORE anti-slug, anti-tunnel, anti-camp, anti-"go next," etc. What's to complain about, just off of speculation? That's what you're mad about, nihilistic speculation, no meaty details, for a role that's had it all since the game launched. Like I alluded to, that doesn't mean an absence of problems. The matchmaking is super messed up and people DC all the time in solo. But that doesn't equate to killers being "OP."
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"This game is killer sided enough as it is as every non-biased player knows".
Why bother opening a discussion, in the General Discussion section, if you're going to write off anyone who disagrees with you? Let's be real, you don't sound unbiased. You sound pretty jaded to be honest.
As far as BHVR choosing to make the game unplayable for surviviors, then coming back to balance it out later on, that's just silly. The devs are very much aware of how petty and tribal the community is. Any time they make a positive change for one side, they include something for the other side. As they know that people will start spamming "WhAt AbOuT mY SiDe?!" threads otherwise.
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Yeah icl not a single change in this game health plan aims to improve the killer experience, besides spawn rules which will make gen rushing slightly less fast
This game just keeps getting more and more survivor sided with no buffs to killer at the same time
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The crazy thing is the spawn rule is already in place! 9/10 times, my teammates and I spawn in the same place. Occasionally 1 will spawn on another corner of the map, like on Azarov's Resting Place or something. Maybe they're trying to make it a guarantee that all 4 spawn together?
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Thats not enough. There should be a secondary objective to progress gens for survivors. Holding m1 on a gen is boring and lacks interactions, its too fast and makes short chases seem like long enough to sell a whole game since 2-3 gens can pop instantly.
I suggested already that generators parts become required after a gen obtains a certain percentage of progress. Upon finding and installing the part, the gen would no longer regress passed a certain percentage
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All the "it's a killer sided update" vs "it's a survivor sided update" posts on this forum are giving me whiplash lol I think both sides are getting some give and take in this update
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the bickering is why I’ve cut down my forums time. I used to be on here a lot more but it’s just exhausting.
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There are problems on both sides that need to be fixed desperately, but they need to be fixed at the same time, otherwise one role will be left way stronger than the other. In this case, survivor will be way better than basically all killers
Individual killers need nerfs and buffs, along with a way to slow gens down a little bit. Too many problems with game balance right now, like why does Nurse, Spirit and Blight still exist in their current states? Why can SWF's completely destroy the killer experience by playing the game as intended under high coordination and resource combination?
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You're gonna need to explain how:
- Letting survivors surrender when the game is over
- Gamma adjustments (both sides)
- Going next being prevented
- Body block prevention of griefers
- Map offerings (both sides)
Are "killer sided"
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Are we looking at the same changes? The roadmap has more stuff survivor specific changes than it does killer specific ones that are explicitly listed. And the ones that benefit killer like forcing all4 survivors to spawn together are already largely the case on live.
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it's funny how half the people on the forums are claiming these changes will be survivor sided and the other half are saying it'll be killer sided. just shows that many of you actually have no clue what you're talking about, and are once again blowing things out of proportion before anything is actually implemented.
personally I'm just gonna wait and see what happens. either what they're planning works out and people like the update, or it doesn't work out and they have to do something different. at least they're trying, at least they're somewhat listening, and even if that's the bare minimum, it's still a good thing and they should be given a chance to improve things. immediately tweaking over what you're assuming is going to happen is likely to just discourage them from making any major changes out of fear of backlash.
you guys are comically dramatic and it's impossible to take these kind of posts seriously. please stop with the victim mentality guys...this goes for both killer and survivor mains. bhvr is not aiming to cater to one side or the other, they're making changes to hopefully make the game more enjoyable for the playerbase as a whole. to me, this update actually seems pretty balanced in terms of how many changes each side is getting.
like c'mon, do y'all actually think that they're prioritizing one side over the other in a game where they need people to play both sides? you really believe this video game company, with one title they can truly call a major success, is catering to one side over the other? really guys? if you seriously believe that, then you're so entrenched in the stupid tribalism of this community that you've actually lost touch with reality.
i absolutely understand not having any faith in bhvr to implement these changes in a balanced, or even fully functional way, but at least give them a chance before freaking out like this. y'all want the game to change and improve, yet when presented with change you shoot it down and immediately start with this "aghhhh dbd is being destroyed aaahh dbd is dying the devs are garbage!!! the sky is falling!!!! the end times are upon us!!!!!" bullshit. mfs do this every time there's some sort of change to dbd, for once just sit back and observe. they're not just gonna drop these changes out of the blue, there will be testing and a ptb. if it truly ends up being that bad…then we can resume the doomposting.
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Nobody should be getting excited at all until the changes are here. Chill out and lower those extremely ambitious expectations.. BHVR is still BHVR.. It isn't like some much more suited to the task company just came in and took control.. xD
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Because BHVR balances the game around SWF but even then, they do a half assed job at it. It's really just that simple, they buff Killers to compete with SWF and Killers can still barely do that, all the while Surv gameplay gets watered down even more but SWF still adapt thanks to comms, but SoloQ just falls further into hell.
It's hilarious to see BHVR talk about implementing a "give up" mechanic for bleeding out, yet are going to hand out DC penalties to people going next on hook. These proposed changes are a waste of time, BHVR should be getting to the root of why no one wants to play the game as it was mechanically created to be played and what they can do to get that back in line, not implementing a give up mechanic after being slugged but then handing out DCs to those giving up on hook. Irony.
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The problem with Behavior that I find is that they do bandaid fixes like others have stated.
They don't think of the repercussions of said changes until the inevitable PTB that they release that highlights the issues with these bandaid fixes.
I still genuinely cannot forget that they thought it was a good idea to have cooperative healing take the same time as a single survivor healing you, thinking it was a good change.
Behavior, as much as I love the game — is very shortsighted and do not alleviate the problems that solo-queue has. Many of my posts talk about it as they are the primary consumer of DBD, yet is completely miserable for others.
Do I think they need basekit comms? No.
Do I think they need basekit perks, like Bond or Kindred? No.
However, there are many, many, many QOL updates that they could bring to the game and buff specific killers to compensate. They could also make maps better, loops in general better, as many loops are predrop pallet, killer takes three steps, and hit you regardless. It's gotten so routine that I can precisely tell you when I get hit as the loops in general are short unless you're on specific maps that have God tier pallets (Badham, Garden of Joy, Gas Heaven, The Game, etc).
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The Surrender option is a horrendous change and is a net-buff towards slugging.
I don't think survivors need basekit Unbreakable, but put a timer on Knock Out.
It does nothing against SWF, while it punishes the weakest role in the game solo-queue.
Simple easy fixes that Behavior for some odd reason will overlook and think allowing a survivor to surrender. It just allows people to slug all survivors and get out of the game much quicker. It's a short sighted change, as per usual with Behavior — they don't acknowledge why people choose to "go next".
Fix the loops, fix the gen spawns, fix the hook distance — why is everything so congested when you play survivor? You literally feel claustrophobic because everything is close together, it's stupid.
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The changes on both phases are basically all survivor sided WTH
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I am 100% all for the changes coming. I am proud of BHVR for taking the time now even if I do think it took a little too much time but never the less I am very grateful for the operational health patches. This is WAAY more exciting to me than new content. I am here for it. <3
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Did you even fully read the changes? Literally half of the changes are against unhealthy or unfun things the killer can do. They've addressed the survivors with go next prevention (for survivor) and spawning grouped (which already happens most of the time).
Can you give it a rest with this 'killer sided ruining the game' nonsense? BHVr is obviously trying to do something here for the good of the game, and you, along with many others are ignoring all of the good changes, coming up with the worst case scenario for good changes, jumping to conclusions and saying that the game will be ruined by these 'killer sided changes'.
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My main concerns as a killer player are the phase 2 changes. Its a lot of "anti-killer does thing we don't like" and very little "reward the killer for playing the way we want them to play"
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The people who create these kinds of posts have never played killer before. All these posts would go away if people actually bothered to play both sides.
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This just goes to show how many people only play one role and not the other
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tells you everything you need to know about dbd community. Even though i am seriously concerned for phase 2 and those anti things, everything else is literally just a QoL and RNG reduction we all desperately needed
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I agree to that, I mean if you're trying to bring swf and solo closer you should probably also implement at least some changes as well that "fair play" killers have issues with so that the balance doesn't shift so heavily. I'm thinking tweaking some toolboxes, a specific healing perk, limited flashbangs(if not a total re-work), no collision on picking up survivors, that's just off the top of my head, maybe even making it where if you've made it x distance away from the hook you can't cross map to abuse anti-tunnel. Those are just off the top of my head.
Also I feel like and buffing the killers that can't keep up goes without saying.
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Exactly. There ought to be more talk about killers getting punished by anti-tunnel features even when they don't tunnel.
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Never before in the history of DBD has this been put into words so perfectly! THANK YOU! SCREAM IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!!
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I dont really see the phase 1 changes as being anything other than QOL stuff that benefits everyone. Preventing salty people from holding the match hostage is a good thing for everyone. No one likes spoiled sports. Go next prevention isn't somthing I really want to comment on, because its kind of poiintless. If a survivor wants to leave the match, a go next prevention only slows it down. they could just stay slugged on the ground or afk, which arguably hurts the team even more until they realize what is happening.
The only thing that survivors are getting nerfed on are spawns and lets be real here, most survivors arent really taking advantage of spawning behavior right now anyway.0 -
I've seen people claim it's all killer sided and I've seen people claim it all survivor sided.
Never seen a community with such a victim complex before it's so weird.
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How doe any of the "QoL changes" benefit SoloQ?
You are right that Survs that don't want to play will just go afk or stay slugged, until you all whine even more and BHVR adds in another mechanic that if you die while having afk crows, you get a DC penalty, which I can totally see on the horizon with how the game is going.
Punish players but don't treat the actual issue, this community is hilariously bad.
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As a personal rule, I try avoid the 'this game is x-sided' topics for my own sanity, but I couldn't avoid them this time since they're currently everywhere lol
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And the actual issue is what oh wise one?…
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You think people would just be happy behavior doing everything they ask. buttttttttt nopeee
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First of all the first sentence:
Lol I don't even argue one that, even if explained perfectly you wouldn't accept that probably.
To the lethal part:
I don't argue about that, could surely happen. Well I believe in the only ability a survivor has except holding m1 - running.
Free kills:
First of all as far as I know it counts for the last to survivors - that's not automaticly endgame. Second it's there to prevent the last two survivors from hiding for ages to let the other one die. And third - the hatch exists to prevent the last two people from hiding, even tho it did the exact wrong thing how it seems. The hatch is literally a free escape chance for no reason at all you have as survivor, if you really think that's a "free kill" then we're even now.
Anti-go-next:
I'm all for it to punish this, so many people in this game just kill themself on hook because they can't loop me for 3 minutes and tbag, or even tbag me from the start and lay down in the dust 5 seconds later. It's awful how many people leave for the dumpest reason even tho they could've won that easily - I even saw people that insulted teammates but told me that it wasn't my fault. So it's not even just me that has to hear the complains of not letting them farm (even tho almost every match has a dc at some point), but even survivors are triggerd by that.
"Forced to stay in every 12 year old killer main's sado fantasy" - what's yours? Being the "heroic" survivor that loops the killer for 5 minutes on the strongest loops without counterplay?
Well "too bad you won't make it much further".
You post starts with every "non-biased players" and ends with that sentence in the first paragraph. No one could read this with a straight face and agree with that.
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I love how these are "survivor buffs or qol changes" yet the only people I see happy about the changes are people who are extremely killer sided in their opinions.
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I'd also be salty if I'd lose a grade on top of a timeout every time I leave a match on some way for no good reason and that it feels like every two matches xD
Nothing against you, but there isn't a lot about those points that are really killersided. In theorie you shouldn't even want to leave matches anymore after the second phase because many survivors always say they leave because of tunneling, camping or slugging, and all of that should be fixed to an extend that wouldn't make you want to leave. The hiding thing is good for both sides because we waste less time and the spawning together is to counter the anti-tunnel, -camp and -slugging things a little bit because that will surely be a huge nerf to killers.
In the end I'm the happiest about the map-offering and bloodweb-changes. I don't have to play on horrible maps as much anymore AND I don't waste years using my bloodpoints xD
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The spawning together thing doesn't bother me. Just leg it to the other side of the map or something
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We will still get slugged if we are 2 left alive, we will still get camped at 5 genertaors, we won't be able to hide for very long, we don't get to get out of a game against a killer we don't want to play because he is busted sure the quality of life stuff is good but honestly I will still not play against some killers who are literally either bugged, annoying or outright broken.
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What the ######### do you mean spawning together prevents camping and slugging. Are you listening to yourself???? If all survivors spawn together two things happen. A the killer finds all of you and starts threatens everyone at once and B he finds no one for a little bit and you got at least a part of the generator done. If survivors spawn together they are ######### almost all of the time. Also the removal of a viable mechanic aka hiding from the killer is still an absurd idea to me. We might as well just throw all the hiding perks at this rate since you all hate the hiding option.
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It is hilarious how you act as if survivors are winning the majority of their games or do I have to remind you almost every game the survivors lose even if they do everything right. And hell people have a lot of reasons to give up. I only give up against killers I do not wish to play against because they are either broken, unbalanced or absurdly annoying to the point I don't want to deal with them. Why should I deal with an obviously badly designed killer instead of going to another game for example? Or you know if they will be so strict I will just play the game with one life until I die cause why bother against Trickster, Singularity, Xenomorph or Knight or someone else who is either annoying, bugged or I can see the killer is MUCH MORE skilled than me? Why should anyone be playing against a 3000 hour killer player that sounds unfair on our side. Or you just don't care whats fair and you just care for the killer to be getting the easy kills. Most games are lost anyways.
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Huh what is your problem now? I didn't ever say it prevents it lol, it counters it strengthwise a little bit that's all.
Okay and how many killers do you know that actually have the ability to do something about 4 survivors at once? I don't know a lot. Except that you can and you should also split instantly probably.
Removal (not even, you just have to be more active lol) of hiding of the LAST TWO people, not all. Everything it does is dragging the end of the game for a hatchescape. And yes I know killers do that too, that's probably also annoying, but that's not the point right now.
Good job you pointed perfectly out why it should be punished. Every single one of those reasons is simply invalid. Don't queue if you're not ready to play against them or deal with it, there's no inbetween.
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Sounds like you should go and play a game you actually enjoy instead of trying to cherry pick matches for your own convenience. Ironically you just proved exactly why there should be more punishment.
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Allowing survivors to feel entitled to leave their three teammates behind is killer sided.
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Yeah I am doing that don't worry but I still call BS that you haven't even once hated the fact you faced a killer that is annoying and definitely it is not cool to be forced to deal with it. And you know if we are gonna have to deal with that guess what if I can't really be in chase with the killer I will just go for the next best thing which is avoiding him how does that sound or you think I have to put myself out there against him just to die in a horrible way because you fellas said so?
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Oh okay then let me ask if I suck at dealing with their power can I hide. Oh no wait I am not allowed to hide because I am breaking the competitive rule book apparently. I guess I can just go ahead and die as quickly as possible since these killers can end you quick anyways. If you love playing against killers that you hate or find badly designed GREAT FOR YOU as for me if I am playing survivor I will not deal with these fools.
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Also I find it hilarious that you think not wanting to play against someone with 3000 hours more experience than you is invalid reason. I guess you will enjoy having a player that has only 10 hours play against a nurse or blight 4000 hours then.
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I get it, it's super frustrating starting this game, especially when there's so much to learn. Would you like a friend to play with and teach you some things to help you better face the killers, or can I recommend you to a streamer that will answer new player questions to help you learn?
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To the hiding:
do you know in any way how afk crows work? They just update the logic behind them, they don't make it impossible to hide, you'd have to do nothing for it to trigger. It will only trigger in the case of the last 2 people if they don't do anything usefull except hiding xD
To the things with the killer:
Still, don't play survivor then. I have to deal with sabos, I have to deal with flashlights, I have to deal with palettestuns and I have to deal with endless amounts of mapofferings basically forcing me to use sacrifical wards. Do I like it? Nope! Do I leave because of that? Nope I don't, because I queue up with that in mind, and I'm not as weird that I'm leaving the match then.
Well good for you that mmr also stands on the list of changes, seems like you didn't read further after the hiding thing. Also that's to be expected if you play a multiplayer-game, I have around 3k hours and I play against people up to 10k sometimes. I still don't leave because yet again - I queue up with that in mind.
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