Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Dbd doesnt need new anti-tunnel system. At least for now.
Im agree with almost everything we have on the new road map, except this. Cause anti-tunnel perks already beyond overpowered in they current state (that was actually one of the main reason why killer slugging so often to not deal with them). We have at least 3 absurdly broken and op perks in this category (DS, Off the record and Babysitter). Off the record give you 80 sec god mode. DS stun is to long now (cause 4 sec is actually huge number) and Babysitter makes you faster than killer. This new changes to base kit anti tunnel can be okay if this 3 perks gonna be nerfed or changed
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I don't think they're gonna nerf DS. They did so much work on that numbers change, buffing it to 4 seconds when it was overpowered at 3, they won't soon undo it.
And I know people will knock on the Babysitter take, but they're not seeing the full picture. Just because it's not as used as DS or OTR doesn't mean it's not ridiculous. Like he said, you're literally running faster than the killer and get Lucky Break for 30 seconds. That's abusable by SWF, who are more likely to use it than solo because they can communicate/dedicate an unhooker. It consistently being given to the unhooked probably makes it better than OTR.
But that's mostly all I can say. We know the game doesn't need more anti-tunnel, but maybe it'll end up replacing the bad system we have now.
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They cater to the people who complain.
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If those would be so much OP, why dont you see them even regularly? Right, cause theyre no match for tunneling at all. Its scary that people still claim anti-tunnel perks to be useful.
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A 4 second stun is basically useless against Killers with any mobility.
OTR gets hard counteree by…oh yeah, tunneling some off of hook. Hit them when they have basekit BT? No more OTR OR DH.
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Actually the reason they aren't used often is because they require being tunneled to have value, and killers simply don't tunnel consistently enough.
I played 20 games with a shoulder the burden build to test how strong it is, got literally 2 legitimate chances to use it, one of which got denied by an overzealous soloQ unhook (no one understands the concept of leavimg a tunneled player on hook as long as possible)... the one time I got to use it, it swung that game uber hard.
In the others it did nothing or got me killed cause I was getting too frustrated not being able to use it, and therefore kept using it when I shouldn't.
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How on earth do you abuse Babysitter? Haste is pretty much the only anti-tunnel effect that categorically cannot be weaponised under any circumstance.
You can't use it to bodyblock, you can't bait the killer into a stun, you don't get any shield of invincibility to progress the game with… I guess you could argue someone can use that Haste to get to a gen quicker, but I don't know that I'd call that abusing the perk.
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New balancing standard is on the level of Invocations. Survivor perks are supposed to benefit killers, not survivors!
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Nerfing tunneling is not a bad thing. However, we need more perks or basekit features akin to pain res. I would love tunneling to be nerfed to ground as long as unique hook states are properly rewarded.
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It is at least 5 month until there are Anti-Tunneling measurements, so we dont even know what they are. Given BHVRs track record they can also be completely useless.
Calling the current Anti-Tunnel Perks "OP" is also a choice I guess. Neither of them are OP and if they were that good, you would see them run more often. DS is #8 according to nightlight, OTR is #14 and Babysitter #77 when it comes to useage of the Perks. This does not really sound like OP-Perks, if we consider that DS used to be #1.
But DS is weaker now with only 4 seconds (which is only 2,7 seconds of distance, so roughly 11 meters or so) AND 4 seconds nowadays are not the same as 5 seconds a few years ago. Years ago you could go down on Coldwind and stun the Killer with DS and reach a Jungle Gym. Nowadays you end up on an unplayable Filler Pallet. Whenever I see DS being used, the people go down pretty quickly afterwards, there is rarely an exception. So either those Survivors are super-bad (and you still lose to those, does not figure out, doesnt it?) or the Perk is just not good. And I am 100% sure it is the latter. DS is a joke, at least for most Killers (and the overall strength of Killers increased, both for all Killers and especially for new releases). And IMO tunneling through DS is always the right move if you want to win, respecting DS will not help anything.
OTR has a long duration, but does it really matter? Everything which involves around Endurance can be deleted instantly by hitting the Survivor after the Unhook. This removes Basekit Endurance, BT and OTR instantly. And the long duration does not really matter, because if you dont tunnel and someone with OTR pops up at a later point, this person was not doing anything for quite some time. And if you chase someone and they are silent, you should know that they have OTR.
And Babysitter… Is not good? It has edge cases where it is the best Anti-Tunnel Perk, but it is really not good. And you cannot abuse it by any means, since it only applies Haste.
I guess nobody would mind those Perks being nerfed if the Anti-Tunnel measurements which are planned are actually good. But as long as we dont know this, those Perks have every right to exist - even if they are sadly pretty weak and bad at Anti-Tunneling.
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I agree with this opinion
The survivor side has already received a lot of basic features.
Adding more here would take away the reason for the perk's existence.
In fact, it is already too excessive.-2 -
I don't see a way how they could implement it without breaking the game.
As for the perks, DS is great against worse killers and not-as-good against higher tiers, OTR does little in a case of hard-tunneling straight off a hook, and Babysitter is.... yeah, it's pretty good even tho no one realizes it.
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I dont understand how someone can come to such a conclusion nowadays without ignoring actual gameplay.
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I'd wait until we have more details before complaining, as far as we know we couli also be getting incentives for spreading hooks.
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Survivors shouldn't be forced to use perks to avoif being tunneled.
Killers don't need any special perk or something to tunnel.
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God forbid you want to try a fun healing/looping build! Second chance perks are strong for a reason, but not everybody wants to bring OTR, DS, Unbreakable every match. Do you know how to avoid these perks, tho? I'll tell you… Do not tunnel. If you weren't able to apply enough pressure it's on you (but do not take it personally cause there's also huge map balancing issues and gens can also fly if you get too distracted, just try a custom match with 4 perkless bots, but those issues are a whole different world).
And do you know how you will be able to avoid the anti-tunnel feature? By not tunneling.
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And if a killer does without tunnelling, everyone complains again because he then slugs. ^^
The fact is and remains that a killer plays against four survivors at the same time, three of whom are sitting at the generator while he chases one across the map.
The Survivor rather than the Killer determines where the hunt goes, as he has the choice of all options, while the Killer mainly runs after him.In plain language: if the Survivor being hunted doesn't mess up, the other three will be able to carry out the repairs in peace for quite a while.
This in turn ensures that the killer has to come up with something if he wants to build up enough pressure to have a realistic chance of winning the game.There are several possibilities: slugging or throwing a survivor out of the match for good before the generators are too far advanced. So: tunnelling.
So if you say that he ‘just don't tunnel’, I'd like a counter-suggestion of what he should do that doesn't lead to ‘just don't slugging’ and yet goes beyond a vague ‘then just get better’. Why don't you describe a strategy that works? :-)
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that's on the devs to balance out, but a killer should build pressure by constantly injuring survivors and having at least one person on a hook whenever possible. remember the "one on hook, one rescuing, one being chased and one repairing"? that's how a normal match should go, a battle of pressure between the survivors and the killer. but you know full well that survivors mess up all the time and they are not playing efficiently 90% of the time. and killers are getting more and more buffs to the point where they only may have trouble against SWF playing on comms that know what they are doing and keep tabs on you and themselves throughout the match.
that's exactly why these base mechanics need to be implemented, so all survivors have a chance against killers that play like they are in a tournament and the only way a killer should succeed with such strategies is if they bring a build dedicated to it, giving up on regression, aura reading or utility in general. and also because slugging, camping and tunneling are lame and boring for everyone, but it seems that getting a flawless win is more important than actually playing the game.
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They not only need to BUFF those perks, especiually DS which does need the 5 seconds, we need HEAVY baseline changes, because the game shouldn't be pay to win. Tunneling is still the main problem in DBD as of right now and needs a baseline fix.
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it DOESN'T???? really? i get fully tunneled or get a killer that fully tunnels a teammate 9/10 games... and the 1 game that doesnt is because the killer decided to slug us all...
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I agree with you on Babysitter, even if it isnt used as much as some other perks it was overbuffed. I was pretty mad when they buffed it too because it was apparent even just at first glance that it was being immensely overbuffed. Its just not a good idea to buff and nerf survivor and killer perks by such enormous amounts all in 1 go if balance is what you are after
Honestly, the fact that Babysitter is as powerful as it is and still doesn't get taken as much as other perks says volumes about how powerful the other perk options survivors have truely are.
I think that an anti slugging feature is just a bad idea in general. Even adding a bunch of anti slug perks is probably not super necessary. Simply buffing some of their chase perks might be enough. Survivors need to be pushed away from this tunnel vision gens mentality, and start helping their team more. If survivors are leaving you on the ground to bleed out, it can be easily said that these are the kinds of teammates who would leave you on the hook to die too.0 -
Can I ask, what makes Babysitter overbuffed, in your opinion?
From my perspective it seems like a pretty healthy strength. It makes the person who just got unhooked an extremely unattractive target, but cannot be leveraged to gain any other benefit than that.
What's wrong with it?
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It's a bad thing, if it is only thing you do.
It's a fact you need to get someone out of the game before you get to last gen, if you want to have good chance to win, which can often be done by tunneling.
Tunneling is an issue from first hook imo… That's simply unnecessary in most games.
Issue is if the change is only nerf tunneling, you kinda didn't address fresh hooks are kinda useless late game unless you have specific perk for it (No Way Out / Pain res). Where otherwise best option is to slug, but then we will have anti-slugging feature…
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We can't avoid fixing the game's problems just because the game also has other problems.
Sadly, knowing behavior, when fixing tunneling, they wouldn't make any other change and survivors would become overpowered for a few months. But that's behavior way of balancing their game. Those few months would be a small price to pay when we just had nearly a decade of tunneling not being adressed.2 -
We can't avoid fixing the game's problems just because the game also has other problems.
no, but we can try to address the issue for both sides. They kinda did it with 3-gen feature, where they also introduced feature against gen tapping in same patch.
Tunneling is same imo.
would become overpowered for a few months
If they make dramatic change that would affect majority of killers (unlike past features), then it will bring back old queue times for survivors, which is going to force devs to quickly fix it.
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Exactly. I mean I once decided to use an unhook build with babysitter to make sure the killer could not tunnel. I was not abusing anything. This perk literally gives the person who is unhooked either a chance to get away fast and be invisible for a while or well it does nothing. I agree though that SWF will always abuse every perk in existence but yeah nerfing the perk just cause it is useful is not at all a good idea. By this logic we gotta nerf all other perks because they always get abused by survivor friends. Also this guy forgot apparently that if one survivor has unhook only build that means he is using all his perk slots for saving others. I guess he forgot that the survivor role is also limited by perks. Not having dead hard ready or off the record is still a self nerf honestly. Same with windows of opprotunity too. Not equipping some perks screws you over but you give that up for other perks.
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He just thinks that SWF squads will abuse it by having one person being unhooker. I guess we can ask this guy if it is abusable to stack healing perks for a fast unhook heal too? Honestly the perk was buffed and it is good but not overpowered at all. Hell everything is fine because all benefit goes to the rescued person and you get aura reading to know wether it is safe to heal the guy or not. It is absolutely a fair perk. Even SWF can't abuse it to the point of insanity unless one person unhooks 3 people at once lmao.
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Yeah yeah no I agree that they should and could fix both problems in one go.
I'm just saying that by experience, Behavior doesn't really care about their community, it's already insanely lucky that they finally start talking about tunneling again, two whole years about promising their community they would, and not holding on their word.0 -
I still don't have best opinion about devs, but I would give them it is way better than few years ago.
They still sometimes do very weird things and questionable designs, but it used to be worse.
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Anti "killer tactics" seems to be popular. Could we explore why players in killer roles consistently rely on these tactics, and fix the root of the problem instead of just plastering on more buffs or nerfs to fix it?
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that's not possible. even if you make a handgun viable a shotgun will still be more effective. you have to nerf the shotgun so people actually consider taking the handgun instead of always picking the shotgun.
punishing and unincetivizing these tactics while addressing the problems that make them preferable is the way to go.0 -
Well it's kinda obvious, the root of the problem is killer is an underpowered role. Some killers just accept it and play fair and square and actually learn to overcome these difficulties, others play their life and use tunneling and facecamping as their way to get 4 kills no matter what.
Killers need baseline buffs after those tactics are heavily nerfed because they shouldn't rely upon them.2
