General Discussions
General Discussions
Killer players, what drives you to tunnel, slug, camp and bleedout?
There’s been a lot of debate on this topic, and we often see buffs and nerfs as quick fixes, maybe we should focus on identifying the root cause so Behavior can address the real issue.
Answers
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There are exactly two reasons:
- It's easy.
- It's hard for survivors to counter, usually requiring both perks and coordination (which isn't base kit).
Anything else is just an excuse which coincidentally would result in buffs for killers or nerfs to survivors.
20 -
This uh… sums it up nicely.
8 -
Well i typically avoid such things entirely when its just a normal group of randoms. But there are times with an elite swf group where you are lucky to even knock one down after several minutes only to be swarmed by 1 guy by the hook with a toolbox in waiting, 1 guy behind you with a flashight, and another guy around the wall crouched with a flashbang and ur like.. what do i do now? That kind of situation you can only slug or somehow manage to chase all 3 people away for a second long enough for a pickup animation to look down (which is very difficult). So slugging it is.
And at times the swf might also have the generators being finnished so fast that the only way you know you are getting atleast 1 kill is to tunnel the weak link (but thats like way into the match and you realise your losing, not gunning down the first person you chase at 5 gens lol).
Camping typically is your only option after generators are done and several people are still alive, ill often leave the person and go check the doors anyway and obviously they get unhooked but when u need 1 kill for a challenge or something camping is the only way to ensure it in that case.
Bleeding out was only ever needed when people would bring a boil over build, but nowadays they put hooks on most of the top floors. If i ever end up slugging 3 of the team due to them all being in the same area or something i dont go looking for the 4th for a full slug win, i just start hooking.
The reason other killers do those things right off the bat im asuming is because of those elite teams have conditioned them to do the most optimal thing at all times even if its just a regular group, they are so used to swfs that won't allow you to hook that they just resort to that everytime (just in case), or they are not confident in their mind gaming yet.
Post edited by Tits on3 -
Although, I suppose I should also elaborate that these are the reasons people use these strategies excessively, meaning they decide when launching the game or in the lobby that this is how they will play killer.
I personally have no issues with camping, tunneling, or slugging situationally (rarely) as a response to gameplay. I certainly have done all 3 at times, but I "resort to" doing so rather than what I hear people saying here that you "have to camp/tunnel/slug in order to win".
I generally am of the opinion that people who claim these are necessary in every game, every time are either parroting their favorite content creator, or have boosted their MMR way beyond their actual skill level. Sometimes both apply.
7 -
If all gens are done then I completely understand camping to secure a kill
11 -
Let's break the motive behind each strategy in order to get to a solution.
Tunneling: For tunneling is really simple. The incentive structure around the game is designed to encourage not only tunneling, but aggressively tunneling the most inexperienced player, which is bad game design imo.
This is mainly for two reasons. The first is that a team with 4 survivors still alive is far more efficient than a team with only 3 people alive. Not only getting rid of a survivor reduces gen efficiency drastically, but also removes one person from doing other activities, such as healing, going for rescues, and getting chased. Therefore, the game is designed around you getting rid of a survivor, since this is the best way to turn the game around in your favour. It is in the numbers and there isn't much to say about it.
This is not the only problem though. What also encourages you to cherry pick a survivor to tunnel is the fact that the survivor role's main objective takes very little skill. We can all agree that the skillful part of the survivor gameplay is avoid the killer and looping. However, these are activities that are completely optional to win the game, since the survivors real objective is doing gens, and since gens are so easy to do, a Claudette with 100 hours in the game is essentially gonna produce the same amount of progress as a 10k hours Yoichi, even though they have different skill levels and chasing the Claudette should be far easier than chasing the Yoichi. As such, it is smart for you as killer to tunnel the survivor you perceive as a weak link instead of switching between the most experience players. This is one of the reasons why solo queue sucks so much: A bad survivor sticks out as a sore thumb way more than it should, as the killer is encouraged to target them and remove them ASAP to reduce gen efficiency.
Now let's talk about slugging. I particularly don't run slug builds for a single reason: Generally, if you go for slugs, you are having to down a survivor more than 3 times before they die to bleed out, since it takes much more time for them to die on the ground than to die on hook, and also they don't progress to the "next stage" every time you down them. Therefore, in theory, it is actually very inefficient to use a slug build, and if you look into DbD's history, they haven't been that common up until recently, and the funny thing is: The slugging playstyle hasn't received any buffs for a long time, and the only new perk that helps with that is Forced Hesitation, which isn't that good.
So why has sluggish become so popular? I would say it is because all other playstyles have been nerfed. Let's just think about the risks and slowdowns hooking has nowadays. Of course, there is the time you take to get a survivor to a hook, which hinders your momentum, but this was always a thing. The problem is pretty much everything else that has stack up. First, the acting of picking a survivor up has become riskier with time. Saves in general have become easier due to Background Player, but BHVR also made it easier to hit the timing of flashlight saves. Flashbangs were also introduced as a new toy, which can't be countered by looking at a wall, and sabotage has also been buffed recently.
Ok, let's say you managed to put a survivor on a hook and avoid the saves, what now? Well, survivors can quickly unhook themselves as soon as you put them on a hook, while if you choose to slug them, they would either have to spend time healing the downed survivor, or wait until they have recovered up to a certain point. Objectively,.if they are on the ground, you have more pressure on the team.
Finally, the survivor is unhooked, now you have to deal with a lot of meta survivor perks that give really good benefits and trigger on hook. DS and OTR give the survivor a free health state and can be used both defensively and aggressively. Resurgence has become meta recently, and it essentially gives the unhooked survivor a free heal. Shoulder the Burden is a new toy, which splits your progress in one survivor to two survivors, which is game changing if you are dealing with a good team.
Sure, killers also have meta perks that trigger on a hook, namely Dead Man's Switch, Pop Goes the Weasel, and Pain Resonance. However, other than DMS, these perks have been nerfed in succession these past years, to a point where it is not that worth running them. In that sense, these perks that encourage a healthy non-slugging playstyle do not justify their usage nowadays, which further encourages slugging.
Finally let's discuss camping. This is the one that is quite different from the others, as it is not a meta playstyle. Actually, if you are deciding to camp hooks at the start of the game, you may actually be throwing since it leaves the survivors free to do gens.
I particularly never camp, unless there is a good opportunity to it. If the survivors are playing very altruistic, and are allocating their work force into aggressively going for unhooks in a obvious way, it is worth camping since they aren't pressuring gens and they aren't giving me a reason to go away from the hook, since they are all roaming around it. Overall, this style of camping is a result more of the survivor's choices than anything, and really shouldn't be an issue, as it is quite avoidable.
I hope this answer helps you.
1 -
I start playing dirty whenever I see that surviviors put big pressure on me, gen-wise.
I hear 3-4 gens being almost done? I am tunneling or slugging even at 5 gens because they are about to being popped.
Post edited by vol4r on-2 -
What on earth are you doing that 4 gens would be nearly, but not yet, complete to start the game out this way?
That only happens if you're finding gens and not survivors. I get that it's a paid dlc perk, but lethal pursuer by itself would solve this, or even weave attunement.
-2 -
unless it's intentional targeted tunneling, camping and intentional bleeding out, i consider all 3 of these tactics just optimal depending on circumstances, and i usually play optimally when i see a map offering, because that's what people usually want when they burn those.
Tunnel: if i manage to get a decently early first down and the same unhooked survivor happens to be in a bad position where i can get 2nd down on them fast too, i will decide to tunnel them out because why would i intentionally choose to avoid them fr.
Slug: if there are other survivors in proximity of downed survivor or if i sense that another gen is close to being finished, i will try to pressure the gen in order to avoid others sticking to gens during my time carrying the surv to hook. Also, if i notice surv has a strong off-hook perk (well quite a lot of meta perks nowadays), i would rather put more pressure onto others before going for a hook.
Camp: if hook is located at a very beneficial location for me where i have a good insight on 3-gen and can pressure it through the hook well.
- The fact that average team refuses to learn important aspects of this game is the only thing that makes it look easy.
- Hard to counter is a hardcore overestimation where you have the most powerful perks and additional mechanics as a way to counter these lol. Plus, coordination is really not that much necessary, especially against average killers that are not really as good as you think they are. I would put special focus at camping which is absolutely a dead strategy against people that even have remote idea of how to play the game and tunneling which has literally, and i mean literally, an absolutely monstrous counterplay that not only works exclusively against tunneling, but also against any kind of hooking order that isn't constant fresh hooks.
Anything else is just an excuse which coincidentally would result in buffs for killers or nerfs to survivors.
i would rather say that any complaint about these strats being op comes as an excuse to give casual players more tools to counter these because they don't want to improve and use specific perks in order to counter them, since these strats get heavily and easily punished if your teammates have at least remote idea of what they are doing.
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Hit and run playstyle does that if surviviors are efficient. Rare but happens.
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Tunneling and slugging is for the same reason... which is opportunity. If I see someone out of place behind a Z wall or something, I'm going to down them without worrying too much about when the last time I downed them. Likewise, If I come up on 2 survivors on a gen and I get a down on one... I'm not going to pretend the 2nd survivor doesn't exist while I immediately go hook. That's just ASKING for them to finish the gen.
For camping, it only really comes down to if I suspect someone is in the area. If I turn around after hooking to see scratch marks, I'm going to look around. It applies more pressure than to run across the map for someone else because during that time I know at least 2 ppl are being unproductive as opposed to getting an immediate unhook immediately after I leave and me only pressuring 1 person.
As for bleeding out... like 98% of the time it's unwarranted. The only time I'd agree with it would be to avoid things like power struggle if someone is sitting under a pallet. No reason to turn a won game into a possible reset. The survivor knows what to do to speed things along if they want to get hooked. Likewise for things like sabo squads.
If survivor teams are doing stuff like this... playing for a bleedout is KINDA the only choice.
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Oh, another Nagoose follower. Glad that we are rising in number.
-3 -
literally only perk that legit helps against this is Corrupt Intervention, Lethal Pursuer isn't even close :)
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When you say that survivors can quickly unhook themselves, can I ask what you're referring to? Survivors don't just get to unhook themselves, someone else has to come do that.
Are you referring to Deliverance? It seems a little disingenuous to say that slugs provide more pressure than hooks by default because of a single perk that's existed for years, so I don't want to assume that's what you meant without checking.
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Because the game demands it. Let's take the example, I hook a survivor and in the space of time that I go looking for the next one, two gens are completed... Well, I'm sorry, but I'm going back to the hook and that survivor is going to die. You have prioritized those gens and I'm going to prioritize finishing him. Don't blame me for wanting to win.
As for letting someone bleed-out, it's something I don't usually do. Only in cases of extreme trolling or as punishment for a survivor who sabotages his team by surrendering, throwing all pallets or bodyblocking.
-1 -
Not a follower, several DBD content creator wind up in my feed every now and then and this particular video came to mind. For the most part as long as a content creator doesn't come off as too whiney, I don't mind watching their stuff, ESPECIALLY if they main an interesting killer.
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Tbh, I'd love you to just 'assume' thats what they meant and give your thoughts. Buuuuut if you really wanna wait, I guess… :P
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What I mean is that, from the moment you hook a survivor, any other survivor can immediately unhook them, and even if you are close, the maximum you should be able to get is a trade, unless you are an instadown killer. If you slug, the survivor has to first recover to then be able to pick themselves up. So before any other survivor can "slug trade", they have to wait a while otherwise both will get slugged. Of course, getting a hook trade isn't a bad thing, but it is preferable to get both survivors down instead of a trade.
Also, the fact that the slugged survivor has to recover first before being able to return action, means that you can immediately exit the area close to them to apply pressure to other survivors, and still get a lengthy benefit from the survivor being down, since it will take more time to others survivors to pick them up.
-4 -
Pretty sure they're referring to the time cost of saving from hook vs healing a teammate from the ground. If you slug someone, you know they're gonna be on the ground for at least SOME amount of time even if their teammate starts healing them the moment they hit the ground. You have time to kick a gen, break a pallet and whatever else.
If you hook someone, that survivor could be back off that hook and in the injured state the moment you turn your back. It's not that uncommon for someone to have started making their way for the save as soon as their teammate got downed.
-2 -
If he has this problem I'd having 4 gens "nearly complete" regularly, then he's wandering around at the very start of the game and struggling to find survivors. And wandering for long enough that it's likely over a minute.
That's exactly what lethal is intended to do, is tell you where to go so you don't waste a full minute walking around aimlessly at the start of the match.
I'm also willing to bet that there's room to remove one of the 3 or 4 regression perks that aren't being used that early either to fit information in the build.
CI doesn't help you find survivors, and it only changes which "4 gens are nearly complete" if you're struggling with the problem of building pressure in the first 3 minutes of the game on a regular basis.
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- These are the easiest things you can do in the game.
Tunneling is the fastest way to win, assuming you find a survivor quickly and can finish your chases fast. Instead of juggling 4 survivors and giving them each something to do, you're putting maximum pressure on one person and letting the others do as they please. Whenever this tactic doesn't work, either by choosing poorly and picking the survivor better than you or by having a team that actually coordinates well, killers aren't adapting and changing tactics, they're here on the forums screaming for killer buffs or survivor nerfs. This is exactly the thing you complain about (and here again, you can't apply this "players don't adapt" logic to killers).
Camping? Your gonna argue that standing still at the hook is some galaxy brain challenging task? Come on.
Excessively slugging everyone is just lazy. This and camping are generally the "I can't figure out how to pressure, so I'll just let the survivors come to me/the slug".
Instead of adapting and being situationally aware that a second survivor (who isn't on gens) is making noise, scratch marks, etc near the chase for a save, people just leave someone on the ground and call it a day.
2. The in game perks do not stop these behaviors, and are generally so limited that they have limited (or single uses) against unlimited base kit killer strategy, and are so weak that killers didn't even pause to consider them anymore. DS used to give killers pause, and they couldn't even put it back to 5s again.
Even if you bring an entire loadout of nothing but anti tunneling, not only are you still going to be able to be tunneled out, but most of your perks are incompatible with each other. One hit immediately of hook and at least 3 perks turn off because of deep wounds. DS is the only thing left, and that's so weak that killers couldn't care less.
The only real way to stay in the game is to work as a team, and that's not a feature by design. It's also why there's a post complaining about SWF every other day, because it's basically the only obstacle for people to "one trick" the game, using exactly one strategy to win every match.
1 -
I just want to win. Everything else is extraneous. None of these strategies are really cure-alls. The survivors always have the potential to just nullify them with the gameplay loop.
The reason I tunnel is because every time I go for hooks normally, it's an extremely close game, or I lose, for seemingly no reason. They didn't loop well, they didn't bring strong perks, they could have done gens faster, and didn't seem coordinated, but hey, that was enough to beat me apparently, as I'm sweating the entire time. That's what convinced me it wasn't my skill, but the time disparity between killer and survivor objectives that causes such common losses. Realistically, a survivor is still at threat of doing their objective, thus beating you, as long as they're still alive, so tunneling 1 out ASAP and then another is often the best strategy. It's a 3v1 then, with no more than 1-2 survivors on a gen at a time. With 4 survivors alive, there's potentially 3 on at a time, and that's a losing battle no matter what, even with like 15-second chases. You physically won't have enough time to kill them before their gens are done. Your only hope is banking on getting inefficient survivors, who do like 2 gens for what should be a 5-gen chase.
Alternatively, you could stop survivors from doing their objective by slugging. Not only do your force people off gens to go pick each other up, but you deny them their Terminator perks. You know, you're supposed to get some kind of benefit from hooking people as killer, but all you're doing these days is activating DS, OTR, DH, Resurgence, Deliverance, We'll Make It, etc. And they're on hook for 70-seconds, allowing survivors to hook trade at the last second and still have a time positive on you. And then you've got to hook the same survivor 3 times to kill them, or else you may as well have not hooked them at all. They're still the same amount of threat. So slugging them, and getting their bleed-out timer down, is about as effective as hooking them. It's 4 minutes vs 2:20 (without Reassurance), but you often get free time on them because the team doesn't realize yet that you're going for slugging, or take more time to find each other if you've got Blindness/Knockout.
I'll bleed people out for a few reasons. If they've BM'd me all match, I'll just BM them back. Or sometimes if I hook them, that's the real BM, keeping them in the match longer, because they were about to bleed out anyway. Or if they literally crawl under a pallet, i.e. baiting that they have Power Struggle, I'm just not gonna pick them up, because on the off chance they have it, I don't want to waste extra time chasing, or potentially giving them a free escape (because hatch is such great design!).
I've never really done camping as a full strategy. If the survivors screw up, and wait til the last second to save, and I'm able to body block them before they can rob me of a hook stage, I'll do it. But the camping hook with Myers, Leatherface, or Oni has never been my style (except in endgame, just trying to secure a kill).
Look, if we saw that there were more fair ways to play the game, that actually were a benefit to us more than to the survivors, we'd do it. But because that's almost never the case, these are our strategies. It's the most efficient play; can't fault anyone for doing that. The "making survivors miserable" is a symptom, not the motivation. A majority of us are just competitive, and therefore want to win. We won't sacrifice a win just to make random people happy (if even, because sometimes they're just toxic regardless).
4 -
I don't find myself doing this very often but I guess I can see slugging sometimes is beneficial so you can leave to get a another already injured survivor downed without the wasting of time of carrying the survivor to hook while the other survivor is most likely all the way across the map being healed or most likely completing gens but I don't think obsessively slugging is a very fair play as that just seems unfun for everyone good question though see you in the fog
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And that's something that's underlooked. If the killer's just going for random chases, and he can't get anyone because he's playing bad or "nice," what way is that to win? The strategies that exist right now, tunneling and slugging, which are supposedly really hard to counter, and will fail as long as you just loop really dang well, that's way more exciting.
I don't think flashlight saving is cheating, but there are some teams who go in with flashlights just to make the killer mad and feel powerless. And some of the blind angles/timing survivors get is just not right.
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I’ve done hard slugging a few times and the reasons I have for it were boredom, experimentation, and good old fashioned spite
A while ago when talk of a “slugging meta” was making the rounds and the Slugging Singularity build was shown on YouTube I wanted to see if it really was all that effective, and in my experience, it does work, it just took forever and I was practically falling asleep at the keyboard
Only times I slug now is when I’m playing against dipshits with Boil Over or when I want to keep a Go-Nexter in the match for as long as possible
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That's what people don't get about using these strategies "at 5 gens." #1, the gens aren't all gonna be at 0%. Most likely they'll be almost done. It usually isn't the case that the killer is completely overpowering the survivors, and they just can't do anything. #2 If the killer has hooked the same person twice, got more than 1 survivor on the ground, or has camped someone to 2nd stage, all before 1 gen has even been done, I think that speaks to the survivors' bad looping/gen inefficiency more than anything. That team likely deserves to lose at 5 gens if they're playing that bad. But for some reason all the sympathy always goes to them, and the burden of proof is on the killer for why he's playing that way. Doesn't seem like a fair match analysis to me.
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I don't really tunnel, but i only slug if the survivors force it. Prime example, can skip to the final down (this was before final survivor mori). About 8:10 into the match.
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#2 is basekit for SWF, which is where the imbalance of the game stems from and what drives Killers to tunnel/camp/slug since it slows down SWF's (doesn't stop them), but then it does stop SoloQ matches. There is only benefit from tunnel/slug/camp and any nerf to it, is a direct buff to SWF.
-1 -
Absolutely in that situation the killer should secure that kill.
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For direct tunneling the reasoning is that getting into a 3v1 as quickly as possible is far too advantageous for the killer. The downsides to doing so would have to be much more drastic for tunneling not to be the go-to strat.
As definitions are important, direct tunneling for me means going after the same surv repeatedly until they are dead, without regard for the other survs or gens. Usually this means dropping chase to go back to the unhook looking to down and rebook that same surv again and again. If another surv is hooked in between that's more like juggling the survs which imo is different.
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These are the easiest things you can do in the game.
Tunneling is the fastest way to win, assuming you find a survivor quickly and can finish your chases fast. Instead of juggling 4 survivors and giving them each something to do, you're putting maximum pressure on one person and letting the others do as they please. Whenever this tactic doesn't work, either by choosing poorly and picking the survivor better than you or by having a team that actually coordinates well, killers aren't adapting and changing tactics, they're here on the forums screaming for killer buffs or survivor nerfs. This is exactly the thing you complain about (and here again, you can't apply this "players don't adapt" logic to killers).
3v1 asap is the best thing killer can HOPE FOR, not what killer can easily achieve at all. If you actually have the skill to finish chases fast, why would you choose to handicap yourself by not taking advantage of opponents' mistakes? And it definitely only seems easy against people who very much lack skill in the game, while it gets heavily punished against good teams so you actually have to think about if you should attempt it and how you should do it.
And let's be absolutely honest on this matter, survivors had so many very good perks implemented to counter tunneling, yet average survivor never seems to get value out of those, comes to complain on forums for killer nerfs, while good survs very often get value from their anti-tunneling perks + are not scared to use them aggressively at all.
Average killer tries tunneling right from the start of the match and is dead focused on doing it, you might ask yourself how can they not improve? Maybe because they are often facing opponents that don't bother learning how to counter tunneling so they just make it look easy.
Camping? Your gonna argue that standing still at the hook is some galaxy brain challenging task? Come on.
can we please stop equalizing facecamping for toxic purposes with camping in general? Because that's what you are trying to do and are actively trying to act like every strategy you play against is…"no-skill".
Excessively slugging everyone is just lazy. This and camping are generally the "I can't figure out how to pressure, so I'll just let the survivors come to me/the slug".
again, why don't we have counterweight here? Why don't average survivors do anything to counter excessive slugging? And let's be honest, the excessive slugging is much more rare than ordinary slugging for pressure, but even slugging for pressure gets displayed as some no-skill strategy. Wow, is there any killer strategy that is liked again?
Instead of
adaptingand being situationally aware that a second survivor (who isn't on gens) is making noise, scratch marks, etc near the chase for a save, people just leave someone on the ground and call it a day.
people literally leave surv on ground to go after survivor about to go for a save or any other survivor being around, that's literally the most logical and smart thing to do when you notice somebody around downed survivor.
The in game perks do not stop these behaviors, and are generally so limited that they have limited (or single uses) against unlimited base kit killer strategy, and are so weak that killers didn't even pause to consider them anymore. DS used to give killers pause, and they couldn't even put it back to 5s again.
It's not these perks that don't stop these behaviors, it's literally players who use it in a "pray killer is not going to tunnel me because i have anti-tunnel" manner rather in a "ohh great, you are going to tunnel me? Enjoy having loads of your time wasted". Anti-tunneling is literally in the strongest state it ever was.
Talking about DS, 5s is literally ridiculous change that catters specifically to people failing to get use of it against literal M1 killers with no gap closing capabilities. Just say you can't get DS value against M1s. The most needed change for DS was to keep it at 3s, but disable killer's power for a duration in order for it to be good against S-tiers while not punishing M1 killers even more than it already did.
And at it's current state, if you fail to get value of DS and think it's a bad perk, time to consider learning.
Even if you bring an entire loadout of nothing but anti tunneling, not only are you still going to be able to be tunneled out, but most of your perks are
incompatible with each other. One hit immediately of hook and at least 3 perks turn off because of deep wounds. DS is the only thing left, and that's so weak that killers couldn't care less.
incompatible with each other? Very usual hardcore anti-tunneling builds consist of OTR-DS-DH and Unbreakable.
Take a hit with OTR = prolonged chase
DS value comes from either forcing a locker or killer picking you up.
Killer slugs you because you have DS? Good, you have Unbreakable.
If you pick yourself up with Unbreakable, you will be able to use DH.
These perks are literally in a perfect synergy, what are you even talking about?
Not to even mention that greeding on hook also prevents killer from tunneling because hey, killer can't tunnel surv that is already on hook.0 -
”Anything else is an excuse”? Ok. Please show us some of your killer gameplay so you can show us how easy it is to beat good survivor teams without ever using these tactics regardless of the situation. Us “excuse maker” killers who use these tactics when the situation calls for it need to learn from players like you.
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I will use any of these tactics when the situation warrants it. Some matches I won’t ever have to use them, and some matches I can barely keep up even with using them. Depends on skill of the survivors and their coordination. A skilled, coordinated SWF team is very difficult to secure even one kill against without using these tactics to apply additional pressure. For those of you claiming otherwise, please show us some of your gameplay so we can see how easy it is to win against good coordinated teams without any camping, tunneling or slugging.
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Because they are easy to execute, difficult to counter and very effective against most opponents.
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Simple answer...swf is what drives me to tunnel, camp, slug, bleed out. Swf has advantage of coms which basically give survivors full aura reading of where the killer is at all times. This alone is a huge advantage and negates pretty much any stealth gameplay. When in this sort of situation then ye I'm going to use all the tricks I can, if that means tunneling or camping or anything like that…I'm going to do it.
Perfect example is when I play Myers, tombstone or scratch mirror. Both styles are fairly reliant on stealth, not just to win but to actually make them fun. The good thing with Myers is his ability to jump scare. This gets demolished by swf on coms because they communicate where the killer is, there is no surprise element or jump scare, just a basic, slow moving M1 killer that gets looped like it's nothing. This is why I camp and tunnel in particular.
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This is the only thing left in the killers' arsenal.
Thanks to the efforts of the survivors, hook perks and hooks themselves are discredited in the eyes of the killer. We have lived to a point in the life of the game where it is much more profitable for the survivor to be on the hook than for the killer to benefit from the hook.
12 hooks are literally an unrealizable dream of naive idealists. You will not be able to sell this idea to those who are looking for profit and want to win. We are not ready to play for the idea of fun. But you can negotiate with us by offering a good deal.
There is simply one constant in the current DBD. When survivors and a killer load into the game. One of them will definitely suffer. The only question is who will take on the role of a martyr? I chose for myself that anyone will suffer, but not me. Consider me an egoist for this, but I choose my happiness, and not the happiness of the other side. Nothing personal.
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Nothing better than watching a survivor crawl around leaving a red trail behind.
-4 -
Tunnel and Slug? Well, basically when I am presented with an option to do it by survivors and I feel like it's time to win the game…
Bleedout? When I decide survivors annoyed me enough (Usually SWF, where everyone focus on one strategy).-1 -
Tunneling is to turn the match into a 3v1, so you have less gens to pressure. You could fix it by limiting the survivor off the hook agency to "able to do nothing" for like 45 seconds, similar to old Eruption. I know this would be popular, like Eruption was.
I slug people if its too much work to take them to a hook or is a game play error to do so. You could fix this by giving an unlimited, map wide generator regression event to each hooking action. You can just keep upping the regression % until slugging self resolves.
Camping, I'm confused about the definition of this. If you mean face camping like bubba used to do, I only do it when I want to inspect the geometry of a mesh, usually the new fertility icon the team is pushing out for an income boast.
If you mean area control camping, always. Trying to find a hook in the middle of the three or four generators you need to keep control over is such a basic idea. The only way I can avoid doing it is to deliberately take the survivor to the worst possible hook. Oddly they always seem to see this as an unintentional failure on my part and don't say "Thanks for letting us control the center of the map!"
And I bleed people out if I forget about them or they crawl to a corner to waste my time and I'd rather go make a cup of coffee over looking for them.
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There are so many answers here already, but this one by Tits is very likely among the best answers available to this question. I would add, though, that there are certain players (both survivor and killer) who just want to bully their opponents, and it's pretty clear when you face them.
But more often than not, as Tits mentioned, I think a lot of killers who do this at four or five gens have developed a misconception that they need to tunnel, proxy camp, and otherwise be as aggressive as possible, regardless of how rude the tactics are, to not lose every match.
However, that should be an impossible scenario. If a player is losing every match, their MMR should decrease over time until they sometimes face opponents who will lose to their current skill level. At that point, their MMR with whatever killer they're using will become stable, and they can build their skill with that killer.
The only way that's not true is if you get locked into the top bracket of MMR and can never have your score decrease, which seems unlikely. So I'd say most people who do these things in a way that survivors find offensive have really convinced themselves of something that isn't true... unless BHVR coded their MMR system wrong. And that's not impossible. I don't believe BHVR did this, but it's possible that the rubber banding killer MMR effect is heavily restrictive such that if you are a top Nurse or Blight, the MMR for your other killers becomes anchored too high, making it almost unfeasible to win matches. I doubt that's the case, but it's something worth asking our overlords about :)
4 -
tunnel - someone who intentionally gets in my way despite me clearly trying to ignore them (looking at you freshly unhooked Endurance)
slug - someone who tries to die on hook or runs into me to get out of the game cuz they don't want to dc (a survivor downed at a pallet or has a flashlight user 5 feet away who is not discreetly hiding is NOT slugging)
camp and bleed out - someone abusing some bs that has no response to like when Survivors could phase into lockers with a flashlight and be safe from most harm
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I slug if I need the pressure and hooking them isn't worth it at the time, which isn't very often. Or if there's someone hovering for save, or someone is nearby and it's better to try and down them too than to settle for the single hook. Tunneling I find isn't reallly worth it against stronger players since they'll almost always bring DH and DS, and Shoulder the Burden is a thing, at least hardtunneling doesn't feel worth it. Although, if someone that's recently unhooked runs into me and doesn't play safe, I won't hesitate to target them again if I think there's no anti tunnel in play and they're in a bad spot. And of course if I spot someone I know has a few hook states later in the match, I'll target them to get them out of the game if I think it's a good move.
Camping is pretty heavily punished now with the longer hook timers. Although if the situation calls for it and the survivor has little time left on their hook stage, I may proxy to secure their next stage or get a trade. But usually I'll be somewhere else pressuring survivors there since againt camping isn't worth it.
As for bleeding out, I don't. Not a fan of BM in general, so I don't bother doing it no matter what. Though sometimes at the end of a match if a few people happen to be slugged, some survivors will crawl away and hide somewhere and I can't find them till they've bled out. The surrender option will probably help against this boring part of the game, walking around and collecting downed survivors, putting them on hook, making sure they don't self unhook, etc, when the game in reality is already over and decided.
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The reason tunneling and camping became prominent in the first place was because map safety was high while gen speed was fast, this is still the case.
The reason "slugging" with knockdown builds is becoming more prominent is because you generally experience fewer effects that feel like complete bullshit if you just don't bother hooking in the first place or only hook strategically after cooking lots of pressure.
Nobody playing killer thinks it's fun or fair when they get punished by "anti-tunnel" effects even if they don't tunnel. You can't have things suck as badly as they do for killers who are trying to "play fair" by not disabling collision when endurance is active and allowing the effects from OTR to persist even if the survivor is healed to full and/or the killer has chased, caught and hooked a completely different survivor.
The effects of DS cannot persist if the killer has chased, caught and hooked a completely different survivor.
Should there be legitimate and honest anti-tunnel effects? Of course, but there must also be fair shut-off conditions or these effects are weaponized to damage the atmosphere of fair play.
It's not realistic to expect killers to eat crap and lose to undeserved anti-tunnel effects, have zero fun/feel scammed because of it, and to never seek a workaround to a situation that blows and just becomes worse with each update.
0 -
Camping and tunneling are easy to explain. Killers have no way of knowing if they are going up against a casual team with meme perks or a government sanctioned SWF squad equipped to the gills with strong perks. Since losing as killer often results in your opponents trying to rub it in your face, its better to just play hardcore from the start and not take the risk. Bleeding out is a bit harder to justify, usually it only happens in no-hook-around scenarios. That argument is weaker now that hooks can respawn.
IMO none of that is any better or worse than strategies survivors can use to make things easier for them, like BNP, OTR, DS etc. Its just people wanting to win in a video game.
3 -
Well there's no reason not to do it:
It's effective to a point where it's actively a inconvinience not to do it.
Even if you want to have the survivor players in mind and choose to not do it because of that well... you'll lose more because of your own choice and you'll be bm'ed because you didn't use it.
You never know if the people you're playing against are insane or horrible, so ether you instantly play hard and you'll destroy a lot of people, or you'll get destroyed in the case they are really good.
In short: it's way to effective not to do it, and no one will thank you for it. I'd rather be insulted for tunneling and camping than bm'ed for not doing it xD
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My response might not be well formatted and long but I must say for the most part I try to avoid these "toxic playstyles" that is until I feel disrespected. If someone body blocks me with endurance off the hook while I'm obviously avoiding them to go for the hook saver or I get teabagged at a pallet… I feel justified for tunnelling. Slugging is a little different imo. Sometimes a mf just gotta slug fr. If someone sabos a hook; I'm dropping who I'm carrying and going after the sabotager, it's that simple. There is a point where even I draw the line how ever.. I will not in good conscious slug and bleed people out. No need to make people eat dirt for 4 minutes each.
3 -
Outside the leaving survivors to bleedout, as others have said, the strategies are combination of easy / optimizing chance to 4k.
The fact that average team refuses to learn important aspects of this game is the only thing that makes it look easy.1: Easy can mean two different things. It can mean a degree of difficulty towards success, or a degree of difficulty to implement.
Target the first survivor you find, ignore the others, is an 'easy' strategy to execute. So is something like slugging with knockout. The strategies are incredibly basic.
2: All strategies have counters that usually appear relatively simple and straightforward.. Whether we're talking about the King's Gambit in chess, a pick and roll in basketball, zerg rush in Starcraft, west coast offense in football, tight play in poker, or a slugging killer in DbD, everything has a counter.
Saying the counter is simple. Executing it is a much different thing. This isn't an observation about DbD, its an observation about competitive games in general.
3 -
Tunnel: when the Survivor wants my attention or tries to save the next person I down
Slug: when I don't have a hook nearby or other Survivors are waiting to save the Survivor that I just downed
Camp: when saves are happening quick
Bleedout: when the Survivor runs to an area of the map that I can't get to a hook
3 -
The answer is easy, I slug survivors because all other avenues of applying pressure on survivors has been nerfed to oblivion by the devs:
- Wanna pressure gens? All gen slow perks are nerfed and useless ( Pop nerf, PainRes nerfed, Call of Brine nerfed, Thana nerfed)
- Wanna pressure hooks? They added time to every hook stage and made it what? 70 secs. No chance of pressure there. Some killers like Freddy literally lose their power if they hook. Survivors wake up if you hook em so now you must waste more time trying to re-sleep them
So if I cant pressure gens and cant pressure hooks the only available way to pressure left ( at least now) is to slug survivors or to tunnel survivors. Both of em make people get off gens and come to either pick up the slug or take hits to try to save their buddies.
I personally do not tunnel unless they're on death hook but I will absolutely SLUG em ALL. Slugging also stops the 20 or so annoying META perks from proc-ing. No DS, Deadhard, Off The Record.
2 -
Then you're struggling because you're focused on the furniture in the game.
Try pressuring survivors in a PVP game.
If you chase the survivors who are trying to do gens, they can't do gens. If you wait near a hook, you're just spending your time on the survivor that already can't do gens.
I don't understand why people think that leaving 2-3 survivors completely alone is the play. There going to do what they want, which is almost always gens. This game is designed for the killer to give them something they have to do, so they can't focus on what they want to do (gens).
If you only give one survivor a chase or hook, sure there's a rescue that has to happen at some point, but 2 other survivors are doing gens. For players who scream about 4 seconds of DS, there's an awful lot of standing around doing nothing, invested in static objects in the map (hooks and gens), that killers seem to defend relentlessly.
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