General Discussions
General Discussions
Darn xenomorph is in the top 5 least played on nightlight
Comments
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breaking ######### to be able to proceed constantly is tedious. I feel like bubba in tcm sometimes. I'm not playing to do chores and the turrets can't really be ignored. Being constantly bombarded with flames only agitate me.
Power level wise alien fine but i just don't like using him.
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I think Xeno is fine the most part, I play her quite a lot and while good coordinated survivor really suck to go against you don't go against them too often. What usually happens is that survivors either put turrets right next to the tunnels, don't move the turrets after a gen is completed or just plain don't bother with them at all. That being said, she could use three QoL changeS:
- Tail attacks against turrets AREN'T counted as missed attacks.
- Basic attacks against turrets ARE counted as missed swings.
- An option to bring back the PTB chase music.
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PTB Terror radius was Godly, the chase music had issues, it caused headache to some people, but that could have been changed. The new music is cool and is Aliens themed, but my god the PTB TR was so insanely cool, t's not even comparable. I don't like the new TR, the chase part is okay i guess.
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I consider myself an avid Xenomorph player because I do tend to go on tears with him fairly often. However this is one of the ONLY killers in the game that I need to actively take breaks from because of how awful he can feel.
1. Crawler mode forces your camera and FOV to be super low to the ground. This makes seeing on certain maps way harder than it has any right to and god forbid you try to walk through grass. It feels bad to have your vision obscured so heavily and it's not like Pig where I can swap between "gremlin mode" and standing up. If I want to use my power, I need to constantly be sniffing the dirt. Doesn't feel good.
2. Tail hitboxes are weird. They're janky and sometimes just don't function properly. I've seen tail attacks go through people and do nothing, I've seen it hit air and hit survivors, I've smacked an invisible wall countless times and all of this is accompanied by the fact that the attack itself has a delay to compensate for it always being ready. This in and of itself feels bad. Every other mid range killer, I press the attack button, I do the attack. Xeno has to do a wind-up to spear people and that simply just doesn't feel good. It feels janky and cumbersome sometimes and it can cheat you out of hits you would have gotten on the other mid range killers. This doesn't make me feel like the Xenomorph, I feel like an Elden Ring boss with a massive wind up to give people ample time to dodge.
3. The tail attack itself just isn't as strong as other killers. Sure his ZONING is great, but if you want to use his actual power, the fun part of it being the actual attack, then he just falls flat compared to others. Everything Xenomorph can hit over other killers like Nemesis, Dracula, and Deathslinger also can but those killers also have more range and/or other parts of their kit other than just the tail attack that can help them. The only mid range killer attack that imo is worse than Xeno is Demogorgon and even that's debatable because Demogorgon can break pallets and has a longer range than a tail attack. I could legitimately see an argument for Shred being better than a tail attack.4. Turrets are overwhelming. Turning a corner just to have your ears blown out with a lout and proud FSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSH from a turret doesn't feel good. Having your entire screen covered in flames blinding you doesn't feel good. Getting knocked out of your power because a turret was placed in a way you just couldn't reach it in time, doesn't feel good. If you're something that has sensory problems turrets ESPECIALLY can be extremely unappealing to play against.
5. Xenomorph has very little perk/add-on variety. You can't use any m1 perks because you will mainly get tail attacks for your health states. You can't use any stealth perks because turrets constantly give away your location. Most of your add-ons are objectively terrible and aren't worth running. Information perks can be a hit or miss because of how your tunnels spawn. There's not many perks for this killer I'd say are good. Most things just feel "usable".
6. Xenomorph is a buggy and broken mess. Setting aside tail hitbox shenanigans, there are several times turrets don't get destroyed by an attack, kick you out of crawler mode despite being destroyed, don't deactivate when coming out of a turret, or hit you behind obstacles. While he's nowhere near the level of bugginess that some other members of the roster is, he does have his bugs and they feel particularly punishing since…losing your entire power because a turret wouldn't break is infuriating.
I hope BHVR gives him a lookover sometime in the future, because imo he needs it. I don't even mind his current power at all and if anything I like it despite its problems. But I do wish BHVR could iron out some of the pain points.5 -
I don't like the trend either, of killers having built-in counterplay that destroys their powers, like Xenomorph turrets, Singularity EMPs, being able to kill Victor, a million cures for Nemesis and Wesker, breaking out of Deathslinger's and Pinhead's chains so fast, etc.
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Especially in the case of Xeno and Singularity, it leads to slow and repetitive gameplay. It's a pacing issue when those mechanics are optimized. Everything slows down because both sides are constantly juggling the turrets or EMPs.
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No. Sometimes, a lot of the time, it auto-aims to the window sill or the high end of the pallet instead of hitting the survivor.
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Good deep dive. Nobody wants a ranged attack with trash hitboxes, and nobody wants to play a killer who's constantly getting stunned out of their power.
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it’s funny this thread was made days ago and just now the ptb has announced Xeno is getting buffed and changed
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Not buffed, it's generally a massively huge nerf. Now you cant realistically lose your heat. Heat dissipation dropped from 25 per second to 2 per second and wont kick in for a multitude of seconds with a very slight increase to max heat buildup to compensate. To put it into perspective, it takes roughly 13x longer to lose your heat, now. The compensation isn't worth it, as the new setup, you're pretty much guaranteed to get dropped out of crawler mode now since the heat pretty much won't ever go away. Every single turret now, even a one second burst, will be problematic. Xeno already was a very low pick, and now they have uber nerfed it further. I feel they are essentially wanting to remove the xeno from the game without actually doing it.
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The changes to heat build up and the amount it takes to remove crawler mode might not even matter if the two turret strat still works
Def seems like these changes lean more toward a nerf than a buff, though there are some buffs in there like faster tunnel exit time, longer killer instinct radius etc.
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That's fair, 2 turrets will still guarantee a crawler loss. I wonder if after being burned out if that also takes 13x longer to regain crawler mode? I'd hope not - if so, maybe they want to force killers to use tunnels to get back crawler.
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That's another part of Xenomorph that's really lame, like nobody likes having to stop what they are doing to enter a tunnel and walk back and forth for a few seconds just to get their power back.
It's also lame for the survivors because you spend time setting up turrets to burn xeno out of their power only for them to just undo it in a matter of seconds anyway.
It's worse for the Xeno player due to the sheer boredom of it, a lot of the time I don't even bother it's more fun to keep chasing and playing than it is to waste time doing that lol
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The changes are interesting to say the least.
Now the tail attack has the same prep time as the Nemesis but you can't cancel it whatsoever making it weaker overall. The sound cue is nice.
The turrets mini rework means individual turrets wll have a greater impact toward breaking crawler and double turrets will be as strong as ever. You are essentially guaranted to lose crawler mode if a survivor just runs from turret to turret.
So now, Xenomorph must drop chase more frequently and cannot go on long chase when multiple turrets are deployed. With a weaker tail attack, it seems we are leaning more toward ambush attacks over long chase. The cooldown change is nice but it's still worse than Nemesis. Can't cancel, can't drag into a wall, has a smaller reach, can't break pallets, has an equivalent fire time. It is worse than Nemesis, and having the infection (with hindered) and vaccines is still less punishing than the turrets. Xenomorph chase is worse than Nemesis overall.
However,
The buff to tunnel exiting is massive as it means the ambush will be waaay stronger than before. 1.5 instead of 2.25 is insanity. You are heavily encouraged to attack vulnerable targets with tunnels and leave chase frequently. I kinda like the way they want players to use tunnels information, speed and stealth more often leaning into the ambush predator style more.
You will lose crawler mode eventually but tunnels are better, you are even more of a 1v4 killer now, almost an hit and run centered around pressuring everyone with tunnels and sealing the deal very quickly in chase before turrets eventually burn you.
Tho tunnels RNG is still a problem, more tunnels alongside those changes would be THE good move. As simple as that, having more control stations would make the Xenomorph way better and smoother to play as tunnels would be more accessible and allow the Xenomorph to act uppn the information it gathered below, it's just a net positive in balance, theme and overall enjoyment for the player. Also, entering the tunnels should make you recover from the flames allowing you to not be insta burnable after exiting tunnels, because the heat dissipation is way too high without being able to do anything against it. This would mean you can choose to reset the heat by using the tunnels.
Interesting changes overall, im excited to see how it will play out. Can't wait to see the new add ons.
Even if it ends up badly, im happy the devs are looking at Xeno.
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Right now this is wrong. If you're a good Xenomorph player, the turrets should rarely be knocking you out of your power. The turrets are basically the equivalent of a survivor running in and taking a protection hit for you. They only become threatening if they're placed in clusters, otherwise you should be able to tail strike them before they burn you out of your power.
If the PTB changes go live, though… this will be a lot more accurate.
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I don't think this update outside of sudden spike of "lets try new Xeno" will improve this. It sounds like a nerf to me honestly. Not a fan of these changes.
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Just commenting that every time a turret is destroyed, it does allow the survivor to make a good amount of distance. It's an on demand bodyblock (as you mentioned) but without the downside of anyone getting injured. A turret is a win-win for the survivor in every situation. If the xeno destroys it, you can get away easier. If not, the killer loses their power. The exception of course is if inexperienced survivors put the turret at a tunnel, but thats on the survivors inexperience.
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This update isnt helping xeno rise from bottom 5 at all. Such a shame honestly.
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It's kinda sad to see the Hag even lower than Twins, but it's easy to see why. She was never a popular killer, but she is currently in a pretty rough state. The combination of latency, MMR being stricter than how it originally was and a few maps where it's easy to see her traps or see her as she places them means that you can often get into situations where all survivors are skilled and know how to counter her, and because they know how to safely trigger traps AND latency can make it worse, a lot of the time you just appear insanely far away from the survivor who triggered the trap, even if you teleport instantly. I've been using the Bloodied Mud add-on everytime I want to make sure I don't have that problem in a match, which feels a little insane, because until a while ago the current effect of this add-on didn't exist and Hag still felt stronger and more fun than she is now.
Meanwhile, Twins are still a buggy mess, but they are way better than before since they got those buffs.
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Another unwanted killer changes that makes xeno unfun to play
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The only thing from brainstorming that I can find as a common middleground for Xeno is to allow turrets to slow you down versus breaking you out of your power. Allow survivors to pick up more turrets and place them around the map, allowing Xenomorph once if they're in contact - to slow them down and once destroyed go back to normal speed. It's either that or how it works now because Xenomorph can be quite oppressive if not taken out of their power or slowed down.
Singularity EMPs allow survivors to have counterplay when going to a gen that the Singularity is guarding specifically. Without EMPs, Singularity would have no counterplay and you can easily set up your biopods in different areas to allow the EMP to not destroy them. They would be quite oppressive on open maps as well. I don't see any issues with Singularity - they notice their biopod isn't in an area and can go over to reset them - it's a non-issue here. The biopod also allows the Singularity to teleport to the survivor and without the ability to get rid of biopods and the biopod on your back, Singularity would be quite too strong for survivors as a whole.
Without the ability to kill Victor, that would mean people can now hold down the ability button or pounce more often without any counterplay to Victor as Victor is Charlotte's main power and the most oppressive part of her kit.
Hyperbolic and exaggerative for the last two, Daniel. There's four syringes on the map for Nemesis, while he gets killer instinct when you use them. Most survivors that I see will go ahead and use them even if I opt to save it for when I am on death hook.
You get 12 sprays against Wesker, again you need to spray to avoid being infected and slowed down. These two issues are again, counterplay to Wesker and Nemesis who are 1 & 4 most used for killers via nightlight.gg.
Edit: I didn't respond to the Deathslinger and Cenobite - my bad.
Deathslinger's main issue for me is the ADS slowness (not saying he needs to quickscope - but at least make it a little better but that's just me, take that with a grain of salt). Anyways, the counterplay for Deathslinger is obviously to drop a pallet with them on the other side or using your terrain (or another survivor) to break the chain for you. Former is the easiest, while the two latter ones are harder to pull off (SWF can do the last one easier, but again SWF is not the majority playerbase) - once you're caught, you're dead unless there's an obstacle obstructing you and Deathslinger.
Cenobite's chains, yes - you can break around terrain and general pulling them off but once you're caught - you get hindered and slowed down causing the Cenobite's to catch up and hit you/down you. They can also catch you out of place when solving the box and cause a chain hunt as the chain can disrupt the survivor while in chase, stop a survivor from allowing a protection hit, or prevent them from opening the box.
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