General Discussions
General Discussions
Xeno changes sound like I should be playing Nemesis
- Turrests are more impactfull and stronger.
- People who allready knew how to counter you will have it even easier.
- People who had no idea will have it easier.
- Your charge attack speed is almost twice as long to do (and more clear audio).
- Tunnels are stronger.
- Attack miss is bit shorter.
Wow.. these sounds like massive nerfs. Even if they aren't massive, it still overall fun decrease for Xeno. Turrets will eventualy shut you off no metter what. It might be cool for theme of the killer (hit and run) but not for real gameplay. Like… Yea, I would rather eat pallets and hit tails with my Nemi than "oh no more tail attack go hide" killer.
Comments
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Also let me add this: People said reason why Xeno is so low popularity is because they don't like survivors having power in their hands to shut you off… well quess what… they made it much worse now. Nice. Top 5 bottom? More like top 3 after few weeks of testing xD
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It was a common debate as to who was better, Nemesis or Xenomorph.
It's not really a debate anymore. After Nemesis's buffs and Xenomorph's nerfs, Nemesis will definitely be the stronger killer.
Also they still haven't done anything to change the fact that chest offerings reduce the number of tunnels.
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[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
Post edited by Pulsar on-11 -
All the other buffs? Only buffs are missed attack and tunnel exit related buffs… the rest is all nerfs.
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Yes, there are some nice changes here.
The reduced penalty for missing the tail is also nice. Especially since the tail is much more reliable at destroying turrets, and destroying a turret with the tail counts as a missed tail attack.
The increased resistance to burning is also nice. If my math is right, it will be more resistant to being burned basekit than it currently is with the Emergency Helmet addon. I don't know what they're going to do to the Emergency Helmet.
The time it takes to get out of the tunnels will make it feel more fluid to play, though I don't really consider it to be a big deal as it is.
But you have to understand just how big a deal the nerfs are in comparison.
At the moment, good Xenos are rarely burned out of their power as it stands already. Increasing the resistance to the fire won't change that. The way turrets are used by good survivors, and understand that they will still be used like this, is to place them in loops where they act like protection hits. Survivors who know how to play against Xeno will be setting up the turrets in such a way that they can be chained together by a survivor holding W between loops.
Even with a good reaction time, the absurdly slow rate at which you recover from the burn now ensures you will eventually be forced out of your power by survivors who use them like this. Even with good reaction time, you'll still get slightly burned each time you need to destroy a turret.
Effectively, these changes do nothing to help survivors who are already bad at playing against Xeno, since they won't chain the turrets together or know how to set them up properly. It will make good survivors significantlly more effective than they already are against Xeno.
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Thing is.
0,5 faster tunnel is not the same as 95 seconds of cooldown if you have a lot of fire charges.
You need 15 seconds to start cooldown with 160 charges at 2charges/seconds you will need 95 seconds to cooldown (wich is insane).
Is literally better let yourself burn then go to a tunnel to reset your power.
If you ask me, it makes no sense that best strat is letting yourself cook. Is like asking trapper to step in their own traps to reset it.
That nerf is way meaningfull that 0.5 tunnel time and stuff like that.
At least i would consider tunnels also cool you down fast like power. It makes you waste time (good for survivors) but you can do something about your fire levels(good for alien) because right now you literally cant.
At least on paper of course, we need to try it first but i see this as a big nerf if you ask me.
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They made him last ever so slightly longer before a full burn in return for dropping your heat to taking 13x longer. This means that the killer will pretty much never have crawler mode available and in turn not tail use at all outside the beginning of a chase where no chases have occurred recently.
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"I'm no Xeno expert" yes I think that's clear. These "buffs" nowhere near make up for the nerfs. Xeno is already sitting at the lowest kill rate, it's the only killer below 50% and 6th lowest pick rate. It'll just be easier to counter him, more so than it already is. These changes do make it easier for beginners to handle Xeno, which I think is probably the main reason for these changes. Good players will have an even easier time which is already laughable.
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These buff do not compesate the nerfs, for example xeno can exit tunnels 300% faster, doesnt matter as you can hear him aproaching and prerun, also its not like it exits on you, there are fixed spots where you know it will exit. So a nothing buff really.
I am happy they are looking at xeno and it is likely they will buff him after ptb, but thinking these buffs outweight the massive tail nerfs its not it.
Also, while yes the tail attack is fast, with this change there is literally zero reason to play this fella over nemesis, like the amount of time save in chase by nemesis is way better than the mobility xeno has, and the attack which was already a budget tentacle is now even worse.
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The flamethrower changes.
A turret generates 25 heat per second. Taking FIFTEEN SECONDS to now remove that heat instead of 1 second, and then making it go from reducing it to 2 CHARGES PER SECOND from TWENTY FIVE PER SECOND. All for the sake of, now 1 turret won't knock you out of your power and it takes 2. Is a massive massive nerf.
This means that when a turret hits you for 1 second, you can't get hit by flame turrets at all for 15 seconds, and then it takes another 12.5 seconds to remove that heat. All for the sake of, now instead of it taking 4 seconds to knock you out, it takes 7 is not worth it. Especially since xeno relies on hitting the turret quickly in order to stop it. And hitting the turret already gives the survivor distance. This effectively means you might as well not even bother with losing heat, and just make it so you have to go to the tunnels after the survivor runs you through 2 turrets every time.
Instead of it being more skill based around where survivors place the turret, and the survivor routing you through a path where the turret knocks you out and you can't easily hit it, its just a mindless "run to 2 turrets and now they are an m1 killer unless they drop chase"
Ironically these changes have the opposite effect they want. It makes xeno more of a noob stomper when survivors don't know how to use turrets properly, but against high level teams that know how to use turrets effectively, xeno is massively nerfed.
To put it bluntly, this is basically the billy overheat heat mechanic all over again.
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"Other than the buffs, everything else is a nerf."
No kidding. Also, there's the massive increase to how much flame is needed to break him out of Runner mode. Pretty sure that gives Xeno a lot more time to destroy turrets
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Except that the Tail is better than Tentacle.
Nemesis does take two hits to damage, plus he gives a speedboost on the first non-damaging hit. Xeno does damage instantly, retains quite a bit of movement speed and the Tail can be dragged over objects.
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Tbh, my idea of buffing turrets would have simply to allow Survivors to carry them at current Fixated speeds.
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Its not massive, you really should try playing xeno, if you aren't running the flame reduction, or the turret range reduction it is impossible to start getting hit by a turret and hit it before it knocks you out of your power. This effectively makes it so you lose you power guaranteed after the survivor runs to 2 turrets. Which good survivors are always running you near a turret. And keep in mind that when not in the power, xeno HAS NO POWER.
Yes it gives you more time, but it takes FIFTEEN SECONDS before the heat starts disappearing at a rate of 2/s instead of 25/s. That is not a good thing.
Like, they buffed how much heat you need to lose your power from 4 seconds to 7 seconds. This is a buff, but then made it take FIFTEEN TIMES LONGER before that heat starts disappating, and then a 92% longer for that heat to disappear.
So mathed out its a :
- 75% buff to heat needed
- 1500% nerf to how fast before it starts to disappears
- 92% nerf to actually remove it.
That is not a buff.
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I discounted the fact that it takes 13x longer because I think it is obvious that it will be changed to something more reasonable. I don't generally consider things that I know are irrelevant, for example, the attack sound increases.
They aren't going to keep the 13x increase to cooldown. It will likely end up being 2x or 3x. High enough that turrets have a purpose, low enough that they don't keep him perma locked out.
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The tail hitbox is worse than the tentacle, has less range and it also breaks pallets, the distance the first tentacle hit gives you is comparable to the distance you get when xeno has to destroy a turret before chasing you (and they arent hindered btw).
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I did play Xeno.
Pretty sure this change gives you more than the Helmet does currently.
Two turret strat requires either communication, which most players do not have, or a LOT of time setting up which means you are probably winning time investment wise.
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Thus is literally the point we are saying this. They are asking for feedback and we are giving it.
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Hitbox is smaller, closer to Deathslinger, meaning you can drag it over loops and get hits. Nemesis breaks pallets in Tier II, which he only gets after giving people a speed boost.
Why would Xeno have to destroy a turret? Most Survivors do not sit right next to a turret at all times. It is more likely that Xeno gets an easy first hit and a difficult second hit.
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I literally cannot even with you at this point, usually you are survivor sided in your bias but this is insane.
75% longer to get knocked out of power in exchange it takes 1500% longer before heat starts disappearing and 1250% longer before the heat goes away is not worth it, and does literally the opposite of what they want. Bad survivors who can't chain turrets are still gonna be bad and get hit, but good survivors who can and communicate obliterate this killer who will now effectively have no power.
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OP ignored the positive changes and said Xeno was worse than Nemesis.
Xeno is not worse than Nemesis, even if all of these changes went live.
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If you read my other comment, which I know you did because you responded to it, you'd know that I am ignoring that change because there is no realistic way it goes live.
What will likely go live is a watered-down version of it, in exchange for the other buffs listed. I'm honestly not convinced that they didn't miss a decimal point in the 15s. I wouldn't be surprised if it was 1.5 seconds delay, not great still needs changed, but it'd be more in-line with the other numbers.
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But again, the point of this is for them to ask for feedback, and we are giving it, and you are saying "well ignore that one because there is no way it happens"
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Ok no, as a very, very, very addicted slinger main xenos hitbox is not even close to slinger, part of why I hate playing xeno is you cannot hit between little holes and gaps which slinger CAN. I would compare it even closer to huntress, like it is massive compared to slinger.
Lets say a sur ivor was as dense as lead, somehow ignore the beeping of turrets(which are loud af even if you are not close to them) and got surprised by xeno, then got hit by tail because as you said they werent close to a turret, they go to where they know a turret will be and xeno has to STILL break it. So you didnt waste the initial tine, you did it mid chase, the sum of time is still the same.
And if the survivor is not running to loops with turrets against xeno, then im sorry to tell you but those players would lose against the tutorial trapper bot.
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I see your point, I believe you are correct.
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I can't remember at this point, can you see the turrets as a Survivor?
And as someone who played Nemesis religiously, his hitbox and Tail are (or were) much better than Tentacle ever was.
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Yes, white aura.
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Yes, you can see the aura of turrets
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I thought that was only when other Survivors were carrying them?
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No, you can see where they are placed.
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Hm.
Still, this is asking a lot from the…creatures that reside in Solo Q.
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If those same creatures beeline towards the yellow paint with WoO, then I believe my teamates can go towards the white aura that also has massive blue scanlines.
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I disagree completly, tail strike is worse than tentacle strike, especially after the next patch.
Tentacle strike gives 8 "free hits" with a massive hindered effect that almost makes the follow up hit instant, you have to walk like 3s to catch up and hit them again.
Vaccines are limited to 4, turrets are infinite, you have to hit a "bodyblock" and hit them no matter what, they kill your stealth and can outright remove your power for a whopping 35s if you decide to keep chasing.
Tentacle has a CD of 2.25s, Tail has 3s, 2.5 after the buff, still worse.
Tentacle can break pallet, not the tail
Tentacle has a 6.5m range, tail is 4.8m, even Nemesis in tier 1 has better range !
Tentacle strike goes after a 0.35s charge, tail is 0.35 after the nerf, so the same, they now have the exact same "reaction time".
You can hit a wall with tentacle strike then drag the hitbox in someone. The tail stops having an hitbox as soon as it hits a collision. You can only drag in the air. This means Xenomorph cannot prefire like a Nemesis, after the nerf to the delay, it will play exactly like a tentacle strike but worse in every way. And you still have the turrets …
How can the tail strike possibly be better than the tentacle ? Are the 8 hits with 20% hindered that important ? Especially compared to flame turrets that are insanely strong in competent hands (said by the devs themselves and every Xeno actual players ever).
Nemesis gets slowed down a tiny bit in early, it has been buffed, you get to tier 3 insanely fast and the free hits are a minor delay, not some massive problems.
Xeno has to deal with slowdown for eternity, each turret is time wasted and free distance, or worse, you have to give up the chase entirely.
Xenomorph after the bug patch was stronger than Nemesis, then Nemesis got buffed and was better but the two were very close, each having their ups and down. The thing that Xeno had over Nemesis was the delay being 0.2, now after this patch, it has nothing, no-thing over tentacle strike. Turrets being way stronger than infection/vaccines.
Post edited by Heliosse on5 -
You would be surprised, since they seem to have trouble going towards a hooked teammate or a glowing Box
-5 -
Apparently the problem was that it was not possible to react to tail attack and not that the tail was so bugged that sometimes it literally pierced through the survivors without registering the hit.
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Xenomorph is by far worse than Nemesis.
Nemesis can outright eat through pallets, there's not much of a wind up problem with Nemesis (they're increasing Xeno's), not only the inclusion of how long it takes to wind up (survivors have more of a reaction time to crouch to counter the tail attack from Xeno).
I don't see anything that Xeno has other than map mobility, sure. Exiting a tunnel is nice, killer instinct range is okay (that's whatever), missed attack is fine, but what else is there for Xenomorph? These changes are a net nerf to the poor fella.
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Nemesis can eat through pallets after he gives Survivors at least two speed boosts. Nemesis' wind-up time, pretty sure it's longer than Xeno's even AFTER this change.
Map mobility and ability to counter higher walled loops by dragging the tail over. Also that he doesn't give people a free speed boost.
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A good Nemesis player will obviously kill their zombies to get tiers in their power. Yeah, sure a Nemesis gives a speed boost to the survivor (if they're not bringing the hindering add-on) sure. A Nemesis wind up is much easier to maintain, even if the Nemesis is pulling it up around the corner. It's more accessible to use than a Xenomorph's tail attack which is wonky.
Additionally, a Nemesis like I said - can destroy a pallet without any add-ons or perks - whereas a Xenomorph can do nothing when a survivor is doing counterplay at a pallet unless they run Dissolution (which is an awful alternative for Xeno).
The high walls is also a point for contention with Nemesis, unless the survivor is crouching under a pallet or window - but again, the same thing can be said about Xenomorph.
Yes, from doing the math Nemesis has a 0.5 wind up versus Xeno's now 0.35 seconds, but these are marginal differences when one is superior in terms of deleting pallets and the other is perk dependent.
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Unsure if they changed it, but Zombies do not give much Mutation Charge.
Nemesis can hold his Tentacle, true but that isn't what you pointed out originally. Likewise, Xeno's nerf to his Tail is only .15, which as you said is marginal.
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I'm not too sure because I'm not a Nemesis player, but I do know that they helped Nemesis tier up faster regardless - that was one of his buffs if I'm not mistaken.
Most Nemesis players use mutation rate add-ons. I also see the hindering add-on where the Nemesis hits you and you barely make much distance as well.
I just think even with that being said, Xenomorph's add-ons are not as good as Nemesis' and most use the add-ons to lessen the chance of being broken out of their power.
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I hate the tail attack nerf. It is difficult to dodge because it is so easy to break Xeno out of his crawler mode, so it should feel as consistent as a M1, and not as easy to dodge as Hellfire of Pyramid's range attack.
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What they should do is to finally make the animation match with the hitbox to make the tail less frustrating.
Its LONG overdue and would definitely make the killer nicer to play already.
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The changes are outrageous, man. He was already a dead killer because of the inconsistent tail and free flame turrets! They really hate Xenomorph players. Could we consider this another cash grab chapter, like Chucky? Because that's what I'm thinking.
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Honestly the issue with these changes is their effect on design, not strength. The best survivors could already knock you out of power consistently and immediately with double turret setups, now it'll still be consistent but not immediate, and it's always been balanced out by the fact that you can get your power back by spending less than 5 seconds in the tunnels. The issue is that this makes xeno gameplay more scripted than it already was since it goes from "react to the turret in time and keep your power or take too long and lose your power" to "almost regardless of how long you take you won't lose your power now but you're guaranteed to lose it in a bit"
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