Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Xenomorph Changes Feedback
Hey everyone, it's TheMrHeadache, Xenomorph guide author.
I'm posting this here because it's well known that the forums are a main focal point that BHVR pays attention to when it comes to feedback, and I am deeply concerned about the coming changes to the Xenomorph, ultimately believing them to be incredibly unhealthy.
My main concern being the heat dissipation changes being an extreme buff to flame turrets. Flame turrets already are cited as the most frustrating aspect of playing the Xenomorph, so buffing them so strongly, is going to make an already low play rate killer, even lower.
The main problem with the heat dissipation changes is that since you will not be losing charges for such a long time, basically any flame turrets placed within 2-3 tiles nearby, become equal to the strength of a double turret setup (since you will not lose the charges quick enough before encountering the next flame turret). This is puzzling since the dev note cites that they wanted the Flame Turrets to not be as strong for high skill survivors, but this is just a net buff across the board for all skill levels while using the turrets.
The base charges given to Xenomorph will NOT enough to resist this, making the gameplay loop while playing Xenomorph even MORE frustrating. The rest of the changes are fine and healthy for the character, especially the miss attack cooldown (though this would be nice to be a cooldown for both miss and hit cooldown). However, the flame turret buffs will make the gameplay loop miserable for Xenomorph players.
In addition, many survivor players lament that they feel FORCED to utilize basekit counterplay in order to counter a killer they are facing. These changes definitely enforce that gameplay that survivors do not enjoy. So beyond the charge time being nerfed for the tail attack, survivors should not be happy about these changes either.
Overall, I pray you do not go through with most of these changes, mostly the heat dissipation buffs to the Flame Turrets. Please hear us out here so we do not drive more people away from playing one of the most iconic horror characters of all time!
Thank you!
Comments
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I really hope they don’t go through with these heat changes. It’s almost like when they added the overheat to Billy, which really sucks.
As for other changes, I’m afraid its tail attack becomes too reactable and too easy to dodge, as its hitbox is already very small. Hope this is not the case.
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The irony is that my previous main before Xenomorph was Overheat Billy LOL. I can't catch a break it seems.
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Please listen to this guy, BHVR. He wrote an entire exhaustive guide on how to play Xenomorph. Even Otzdarva gave him a shout out for being the go-to guy for learning how to play Xenomorph.
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The other changes are good, but I am genuinely not convinced that the flame turret changes aren't a typo due to how ridiculous they are. Maybe they missed a decimal somewhere.
1.5s for delay and 20/s for dissipation rate seem better?
[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge time to .35 seconds(was .2)[CHANGE]Increased tail attack charge sound volume for survivors[CHANGE]Reduced missed attack cooldown time to 2.5 seconds(was 3)[CHANGE]Increased the Killer Instinct range when exiting a tunnel to 16m(was 12m)[CHANGE]Decreased the time it takes to get out of a tunnel to 1.5 second(was 2.25)[CHANGE]Increased amount of fire needed to burn The Xenomorph out of crawler mode to 175(was 100)[CHANGE]Increased delay before the Xenomorph’s heat starts to dissipate to 15s(was 1)[CHANGE]Decreased the Xenomorph’s heat dissipation rate to 2/s(was 25)[CHANGE]Adjusted several Add-Ons to align with these changes.
-12 -
If it's a typo, then it's a typo. Until we confirm otherwise, then we need to treat it like these are the actual changes that are going forward.
I think there is more evidence to suggest it's not a typo than there is. The amount of resistance the Xeno will have to flamer turrets will be stronger basekit than it is currently with the Emergency Helmet.
I don't think there's any way they give it that much resistance to being burned out of its power unless they really do intend to go through with the numbers as we currently see them.
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I definitely will never play this killer again when Nemesis and Pyramid Head are just right over there. Constantly getting stunned out of your power is abysmal
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I found the OPs guide last night coincidently and it motivated me to try Xeno again.
You should read the guide, its good and it helps frame a lot of the silly aspects of the power that interfere with normal people enjoying the killer.
This one ( ) hope its okay to promote someone's work that's not me.
Anyways. These changes are bad. The heat dissipation things are silly, like stunningly silly.
The cooldown thing though, which the OP is okay with, turns him into Nemesis, without the Zombies. Why would you do this?
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Love xeno, but clunky hitboxes, awfull addons and annoying turrets(now insanely buffed), its hard to want to play Xeno.
Literally was the chapter i wanted the most and almost never play it. Just feels bad.
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I mean, having it be like 1.5 second delay and 20/s instead of 2/s for dissipation seems a lot more reasonable.
-2 -
I find it odd that they'd buff the turrets like this. Is this meant to help players who currently choose to ignore turrets entirely? Because as a survivor who enjoys using turrets(thank you alien players) idk if this is the way
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Someone on reddit slowed a video of xeno gameplay down to show how long the heat dissipation will take, and I simply cannot believe anyone actually thinks this is acceptable.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/cxwY1ygZv9
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While I can understand the logic the devs described for making the changes, the changes themselves don't seem to reflect that logic. The turrets are now actually more effective for experienced survivors because they can just run between loops to burn the Xeno out faster by planning their chase route. Newer survivors will still probably be burning the Xeno out by accident, because even though they don't plan routes in chase, the rate of burn loss is so small that it will likely happen anyway.
I agree that this change is going to make the Xenomorph feel more miserable to play. It feels like it's going to be pre-buff Singularity, where the killer item is not just a defense mechanism, but an "off button" for the killler's power that the killer has no real counterplay against.
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Honestly even setting it to 5 seconds before dissipate occurs and as low as 10-15/s would be more balanced than this clearly survivor sided nerf, it's crazy that they can even think to push a nerf this ridiculously, it very much felt like instead of taking input from both survivors facing xenomorph and killers playing xenomorph they read one post regarding someone's experience and threw all their complaints into a nerf.
I will however concede that some aspects of this are definitely needed however the severity of the nerf to flame charge reduction applied to Xeno will basically result in the power being down more than is active, it's the equivalent of taking let's say Wraith, reapplying the old lightburn mechanic resulting in a heavy stun, which was removed due to the un-fun experience for the killers, then also adding a down timer for his cloak as a result for being lightburned.
I love Xeno it's honestly the killer I get the most enjoyment out of playing but the severity in which this will affect them is honestly dire, I will not be playing Dead By Daylight until something is looked at in regards to this, the turrets are annoying as all hell as is, HOWEVER I proceeded to tough it out and learn to deal with them due to my love for the Alien franchise in general. This buff makes playing Xeno in higher MMR matches borderline impossible, heavily buffing the already strong double turret, resulting in absolutely ZERO counterplay, even if I efficiently destroy the turrets with this proposed nerf, it will result in exactly nothing. my power will still be made redundant and cancelled, the length of time between turret positions is rather short, even if placed poorly, it's a guaranteed GURANTEED knock out of power regardless of what you do, even if I position myself absolutely perfectly, throughout the ENTIRE match, at some point regardless of what I may do, it WILL result in my power being disabled, my tail becoming useless and any pressure I have spent time building up being dropped to basically 0.
I hope this matter is looked into and resolved to a degree that doesn't effectively cripple Xenomorph, it's a concerningly heavy nerf in survivors favour for a killer with an average sub 2% pickrate.Legit just made an account so I could comment on this.
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Yeah, I'm a relatively new xeno main (P2, mainly play survivor where I'm a P50-something Dwight with P3 everyone else) just because I'm a lifelong fan of the Alien franchise and it feels cool as heck to embody the character.
I feel like xeno already wasn't super strong. To be a happy xeno main you have to embrace the thrill of the chase and try not to sweat it when you get styled on by decent players. That said, the changes to the tail attack sound fair. Giving survivors a fraction of a second to bob and weave, and compensating by making the cooldown for misses lower, is a positive change for the game overall and should make xeno feel less oppressive to baby survivors without making the killer player frustrated. But the changes to turrets, if the numbers they've announced are accurate, sound like they're going to be miserable for the killer.
I actually like the idea of making individual turrets less immediately impactful, but rewarding survivors for setting them up properly. In that case you could maybe get away with trying some of the xeno's non-turret-related add-ons without being punished for it.
But these numbers are going to mean that if you're facing an even vaguely competent survivor squad, you're guaranteed to get knocked out of your power in chase. The ability to get quick downs with skillful tail attacks is the only thing xeno really has going for it, so making it far more likely that you're going to spend far more of a match without it (or dropping chases to get it back) sounds BAD.
[Tbf xeno also has better map traversal than many other killers, but even that isn't a sure thing owing to questionable control station spawns, like the one on Hawkins that becomes impassable if there's someone hooked by it.]
With these changes I'm imagining popping out of a tunnel, getting hit by some flames and destroying that turret, chasing and injuring a survivor who damage boosts to another turret, getting knocked out of power there since the charges from the first one haven't dissipated, having to pause and destroy that turret, drop chase and get back in the tunnels to get my power back, pop out of another tunnel, get hit by some flames, chase and injure a survivor who damage boosts to another turret….repeat ad nauseum.
The turrets are already a very annoying mechanic as xeno, made bearable with add-ons like star map and emergency helmet. This sounds like it's just going to make that pain point of embodying The Perfect Organism way, way more painful.
I made this account just so that I could comment on this. The blood ran out of my face once I processed what I was reading in the dev notes.
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At the end of day, survivor fun is the priority, and currently survivors don’t enjoy facing the Xenomorph.
-1 -
If my math is correct, than it means heat from one turret encounter will go away in 90+ seconds, which is insane. It's actually faster to tank the turret and wait until crawler mod is back, than to wait heat to go away.
And it also means that no matter how fast you breack a turret, you will not get rid of the heat before survivor runs to seconds one. So it means that you either avoid turrets like a litteral fire, or you GUARANTEED to lose your power in 2-3 turrets. So you as a killer doesn't get rewarded for correct play (destroying your counterplay asap), but survivors do get rewarded for poor turret placement.
For a second I thought "but maybe new addons will fix everything" but then I understood that this would force xeno to run the same addons every game (just like they currently are lmao) , just because turrets are THAT strong. I want to run Acid Blood or Harpoon Gun, but I wuold be forced to run double turret addons once again.
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Yeah I don't really get the turret changes either. They still don't do anything if survivor's use them badly or put them in bad spots. Seems like it just gives competent survivors an easier time to counter crawler mode which kinda sucks.
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As a Skull Merchant main, i stand with you, Xeno
what are these nerfs bro 😭
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These changes absolutely can't go through. In stead of tweaking the amount of fire damage the turrets do when placed solo vs when placed with a certain radius of one another would acomplish this issue. Instead they pulled some random bs out of a hat and said "yup that'll do."
Bhvr really dont understand theyre killers.
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As someone who believes turrets are fine if placed well, it does seem strange that now a well placed turret is no longer likely help you vs. Xeno, and you're basically forced to lead the Xeno to your teammates on gens or face the tail... and of course it does nothing vs. Double stacking turrets.
We'll see on the PTB but I feel like if the frustrations are that turrets are unreliable for Survivors and double stacking for Xeno, I'd consider: -
- Changing the Helmet add-ons that reduces turret range completely, don't tamper with this value with add-ons and balance it accordingly (as it will always be a required add-on otherwise).
- Reduces the hindered effect from 35% →25% while carrying a turret so it's not quite so cumbersome to set up. Also an "instant drop" would also be nice.
- Getting hit by two flame turrets still counts up burn at the same rate as one (66 c/s).
Turrets should be placed with forethought and care, and should be rewarding to do so for a solo player, without greater benefitting SWF.
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Xeno mains are going to have a real headache on the ptb
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Please listen to this guy BHVR, 102 seconds to recover from being hit by the full force of the turrets is insanity.
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I agree with most of this but not that this is a net nerf for xeno, I would say this buffs xeno vs better survs since it'll go from losing your power immediately no matter what from double turrets to losing your power eventually no matter what. The issue with these changes are entirely from making xeno's gameplay more scripted, a design issue, not a strength issue.
-5 -
Which to me is wild, Xeno is already the perfect killer for Survivors
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I agree with the common consensus. The tail nerfs for increased charge up time and a louder warning sound reasonable. But the burn changes damage Xeno players far too much.
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