Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Devs, why did you all backtrack on slugging?
People aren't slugged everygame. The devs have admitted this on reddit, they admitted slugging is not a big deal, now they are backtracking.
Knockout is now being nerfed when according to trackers it has a 1% pick rate.
Why are the devs backtracking so much?
Comments
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Knockout is buffed not nerfed (but they remove its old effect)
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They want to patch out the extreme cases. I don't think they think regular slugging for pressure is an issue. If you're going into the game with the intent to leave everyone on the ground, THAT'S when it becomes an issue.
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Even as someone who plays a lot of killer, the perk was just unhealthy for the game. I'm glad to see it redesigned.
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bro you can't be serious, it's only -1.20m that the killer gets, even against the fire up singularity, the survivor can always run to the next pallets so these 5% for 5 seconds are useless, It's better to take a coup and get about the same distance but at the time you need it
-2 -
In dbd small distance can have a huge impact. Survivors will in many cases not get to loops because of it. It also has a lot of good synergies with other perks.
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Knockout's being changed because it promotes unhealthy playstyles that heavily punish solo q survivors
BHVR want killers to hook people, not leave them to bleed out for several minutes. This is also why the slug surrender mechanic is being added, so instead of a 4 man having to wait to die they can just give up and move on fast.
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I agree Knockout promoted an unhealthy playstyle, I would personally like to see sabo builds get nerfed or even flatout removed as well. I feel like disabling a killer's possible only way to get a hook is also fundamentally unhealthy to the game. Survivors already have pallet and flashlight saves, they can bodyblock, there are perks like Breakout to make preventing hooks stronger anyway. If slugging is gonna get nerfed like this, killers need some alleviation so they can more consistently get pressure from hooks as well.
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flashlights and sabotage have nothing to do with slugging. if you got knockout in a build then you started the match not intending to use hooks. this is a ridiculous attempt to defend a toxic playstyle.
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If I go into a match seeing a bunch of flashlights and toolboxes, I'm obviously not gonna be incentivized to go for hooks. I mentioned earlier that I agree that Knockout is unhealthy, I would agree slugging more than 2 survivors is kinda toxic. Slugging is the natural counterplay to sabo builds, because you deny their attempts to deny you your objective as killer.
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They also said Legion was fine and didn't need buffs. Things change.
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It's reworked and new version is not really good…
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I am glad the Old KnockOut is gone. That perk was terrible. I will happily at least try the new Knockout with like brutal or something.
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Which they didnt need along with the annoying doll. It was nice being relieved of chucky for awhile.
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Bruh;
Enduring, Spirit Fury, new Knockout.
Put that on any kind of insta-down/pallet-shredder Killer and it's basically a guaranteed hit/down unless there's a god window/pallet within the next 15m.
No need for Brutal when you can essentially force Survivors to predrop or get downed.
Post edited by Skillfulstone on1 -
Considering that this would be best on Bubba, Nemi, Hillbilly, and Iri Button Legion, what do you think best fourth perk would be? I'm thinking Surge myself
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Lets not doom it before we have even tested it.
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It's a goofy perk that is only strong due to fundamental issues with solo queue this change is a long time coming
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Assuming the point isn't necessarily to win at all costs, the 4th perk would likely be some kind of info perk like NTH/BBQ to get into chases quicker or Bamboozle to soft-counter windows or, if strictly sticking to anti-pallet gimmick, something like either Twack (for mini-info after breaking a predropped pallet and possibly using the scream to cancel a flashlight attempt) or Dissolution for small or double-pallet tiles.
Hubris would be a solid pick too.
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If BHVR wants killers to hook people, then why didn’t they address any of the reasons why killers are sometimes forced to slug?
Why is it that when bully SWFs literally go into a game to make fun of the killer, and sometimes do this publicly on a stream, it’s not considered unhealthy for the game? Why is griefing only important when it happens to survivors?
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If they want me to hook, maybe don't nerf Pain Res and Pop and Grim Embrace, while buffing Off the Record and Dead Hard and DS and Sabotaging and Flashbang, and allowing flashbang to be bugged, and adding Shoulder the Burden.
And before you accuse me of anything, literally the only time I ever used knock out was for Bubba Adept. I agree that it needed a rework. But the idea that the knockout rework encourages killers to hook is just wrong. Playing killer I find myself more and more pushed towards slugging people because if I try to hook I get punished.
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Lets address that they said slugging was not an issue before they implemented the finisher mori. They posted stats at that time. I would love to see where the stats are now with the finisher mori being a thing for… how long?
Those of you complaining about the need to slug can do it with similar results, you get the win against solo q and you get rekt against a swf; that will not change with the KO update. Get over it. Stop making the games miserable for survivors. When I play killer, I don't have to slug to win (past the occasional opportunistic slugging). If you have to slug to win, that's a skill issue.
Waaaaaahhhhhhh our slowdowns were nerfed. Maybe if you all didn't stack and abuse them, that wouldn't have happened. Survivor's DH, Adrenaline and Background Player were all nerfed too but you all seem to forget about those.
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My post wasn't really meant to be a big statement on balance, I was just stating what I consider to be a fact about the devs/BHVR and that's why they make these kind of changes. On top of addressing player complaints I mean.
Not saying it always makes sense, mind.
-1 -
The devs aren't backtracking. At least not yet.
- Changing Knockout doesn't mean they're going full anti-slug. The dev team has killer mains that comprehend the purpose of slugging as a mechanic and strategy in the game.
- Adding a surrender option is simply to combat toxic situations where sadistic jerks bleed you out for 4 minutes. Now, there SHOULD be some kind of grace period to allow for things like Unbreakable to have a chance to play in (because people are quick to give up in this game for some reason) but in a vacuum the change is fine.
The real problem I'm seeing is that they haven't fixed flashbangs yet. The bug where the Killer loses collision when picking someone up is the main reason why flashbangs are such a big issue right now. It doesn't take as much timing or skill as flashlights and it's really oppressive to play against as Killer.
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You should just say "on top of addressing survivor complaints", because that is what happened. Every single possible complaint that killers might have, about survivors forcing killers to slug, has been 100% ignored.
The only slugging changes that were made, were 100% for the benefit of survivors.
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Old Knockout, even from a Killer Main like me, is a bad perk that promotes bad game design and unfun choices. I play enough Survivor too to know this isn't fun, and personally I am not a fan of slugging everyone and wandering the map as Killer while they bleed. There's no need for it, it's not fun, I don't get points that way, I want to hook people.
This perk change is way healthier, helps M1 Killers around tiles against predroppers, synergizes way better with certain perks, punishes Survivors who try to make loops into "let's run the Killer for five gens by dropping the pallet because I know the Killer can't get me here", and makes the game way fairer for everyone involved. It has no use on some Killers but helps scads on others, it adds more value to the game for M1s, it makes M1s more viable, it gives some Killers protection from excessive stuns, and it removes an unfun, sweaty, over the top tactic as viable that very much sorely needed to leave the game.
This is a great change. I'm sorry your primary goal is to slug everyone and then let them bleed, but most Killers - the vast majority of us - are normal people who just want to play a game and only slug for a few short seconds to get pressure, and who do not need to run perks to slug better, but would really love a perk that helps those weaker Killers in our roster become more fun in chase.2 -
They implemented the finisher Mori after nerfing the strongest hook related slow downs and buffing sabotage and buffing flashbang and before adding shoulder the burden. Of course slugging goes up in that time frame, even without a finisher Mori.
Knock out change is healthy. "If you have to slug to win, that's a skill issue" is absolutely dumb tho. Like what can I say besides "No, you're wrong." Like Hens made a video called "Killer Vs Survivor - No limit showcase" and the two games the killer won they slugged and it still ended up being close games. Yeah, you don't have to slug every game or every down. But the idea that you should go for the instapick 99% of the time is just stupid.
Adrenaline was nerfed by only a small bit. They just announced a Dead Hard Buff. Background player got a huge compensation buff to the point the change was more of a redesign than a nerf.
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