General Discussions
General Discussions
Knock Out Rework!!
"I used to pray for time like these"
Rest is piss Knock Out, you will NOT be missed
Comments
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Yeah, this is a big positive. The Perk had no business staying in the game like this. And aside from people who were just using it for griefing purposes, there will not really be people who will miss the Perk. Glad that it will receive changes.
The Perk also does not look that bad, certainly a Perk which helps a bit against predropping.
26 -
YAY finally
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It needs a new name now, because nothing in the new effect has anything to do with being 'knocked out' 🤔.
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To be fair I am going to miss it even though I didn't use it for griefing purposes. I run Knock Out on Nemesis alongside Brutal Strength, Enduring and Pop just to get that 'hulking brute with a strong punch' vibe going.
Guess I have to find something to replace KO now, like Fire Up or Iron Grasp or something along those lines.-2 -
Like yall have no idea how good this is for someone like me (I only play solo que because I have 0 friends who wanna touch this game with a 10ft pole)
This perk was so annoying especially when they buffed it like 2? 3? years ago
Thank you BHVR for defeating this evil 🙌🏾12 -
We're stoked to hear that you're looking forward to these changes, and we're excited to see what kind of feedback the PTB will bring 💚
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Aside the point of the thread, but A+ username
On topic though, hell yes, this looks like a good perk- I might actually use this version myself.
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I always swear by Coup de Grace. Solid chase perk and keeps with the superpowered punches theme
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Tears of joy. I think we all can agree that KO was giving us horrible games due to the way it was used.
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Good one, I am writing that down. I'm compiling a list of possible replacements and am going to try them all out 😁.
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It sends the message that when slugging is the killer’s choice, it’s frustrating and should be fixed. But if survivors force the killer to slug, it’s not frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed.
Survivors are still dedicating builds to making themselves unable to be hooked, but that’s not frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed? When I play against SWFs that swarm the area with flashlights, flashbangs, and sabotage toolboxes, to force the killer to slug... that isn’t frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed?
Is slugging an issue on both sides of the game, or is it only an issue when it’s the killer’s choice to slug?
-15 -
Agreed... I'd have thought after downing someone with an m1, apply all the temporary effects (blindness, recovery speed, etc, and alike) and have them stay even if the survivor is returned to the injured state (via FTP or saves). Instead of crawl speed, give a hinder instead for the same duration.
This would mean if the killer instant picks up and there is a save from their teammate, their teammate is still blinded, reduced vision and hindered when they atand up, and likely that teammate still needs to body block hard for them to reach safety, because the saved survivor is still "groggy" from the hit.
This would fit "Knockout" much better.
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I mean, it kinda can be explained by "being knocked out by a pallet", but that's a bit iffy.
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No, thank YOU, the changes yall have been making recently are HUGE.
Yall's communication, balance changes, and transparency are very much appreciated <30 -
Unfortunately all this will do is evolve the slugging strategy. Many have already evolved it being knockout because knockout only works against solo queue survivors typically, so why waste a perk for dealing with something you already should be winning against?
We'll see what phase 2 does, but i don't hold high hopes as its all just "anti-killer doesn't play the way we want" rather than encouraging them to play they way we want, and we see how well that works for camping and tunneling.
-5 -
I had been convinced Knock Out was going to get changed this patch, but am still so incredibly gratified to actually see it happen.
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knock out becoming an anti predrop perk was not on my bucket list for today 😂
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Yeah whatever
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I’m just happy that we won’t have to deal with this perk anymore in solo que
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Never understood why the perk existed to begin with. I'd be happy to see it go.
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Great news, it’s bad and unfair when killers have good and useful perks!
-29 -
oh finally that’s been a giant haha I’m a dick perk for years
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You realize that this perk on Clown will absolutely guarantee a hit now, right? What if it stacks with bottle? Have fun walking at 3.04 m/s for an potentially 5-7 seconds. That's a guaranteed hit every time.
If the survivor is 16m ahead, predrops a pallet and moves away from it and into a bottle, and if the clown is invigorated, if both parties keep holding W the clown will catch up at around the time all buffs and debuffs wear off. 7.92 seconds.
From 16m away. That's crazy. I don't even want to get into all the other stuff like Scamper, Spirit Fury + Hubris,…2 -
I thought the same thing about Forced Hesitation, but that never did happen. So I don't see it happening with the new Knockout either.
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Current Knockout is not even good. The reworked version is better.
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Have to see how it goes but could see them changing it in the future to pallet stuns instead of just pallet drops. Wonder how it would pair with Hubris also if they did that though?
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It wasn’t a good and useful perk that killers were using tactically. Knockout was heavily used for the purposes of griefing (4 man slug and leaving everyone to bleed out at 5 gens) and ending the game instantly at 5 gens by slugging and camping everyone with knockout, third seal and deerstalker. Thats not good game design or healthy for the game.
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Knock Out has been my least favorite perk in the game for years as a solo survivor. I didn't think they'd ever rework Knock Out to not be a slugging perk. I'm wicked happy they finally did something. This is great and it actual has more use now.
I think they should make it so survivors make a grunt of pain whenever they get hit with this new Knock Out, just like the killers do when they get a pallet stun.
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Yeah, but the point is that it is no longer so simple to abuse against soloq.
With these changes, I will be happy to go back to soloq and help out my fellow soloq teammates - instead of feeling like I always need a duo to overcome these issues. W changes all around, I am glad they listened to player feedback with this change.
Bring Third Seal, it's whatever - Knock Out did not need to be stronger than Third Seal.
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That would get quite abit of hate for applying to ppl who use DS.
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If youre bringing knock out - you are going into the game with the intention of slugging. That is not situational that is intentional and you cannot blame that on the way survivors play.
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When survivor burn a Badham offering and a "basement in shack" offering, they are going into the game with the intention of purposely hanging out in the school basement, where it's literally impossible to get them to a hook.
But for whatever reason, that's not considered unhealthy even though it's literally 100% being done to grief the killer. However, if killers try to slug for the 4k, it's demonized and considered unhealthy for the game, even though they're literally doing it to raise their kill rate.
-2 -
Good enough that maps will be changed, so they're not guaranteed.
Still believe they need to be map bans, but it's either here nor there.
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I prefer All-Shaking Thunder. Drop, cause a loud boom and then just ######### RAHHHHHHH
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Ok, but the perk is now dog #########. Could they have given a little more thought into what the change should be? Who is going to run this in any build?
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Just want to gently remind you this is a thread about a knock out nerf
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Same. The way Knock Out preyed on solo q survivors was insane. A huge step forward for the quality of life in slugging.
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Amazing change!
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This thread is about knock out being nerfed, because of a claim that killers are using it to grief survivors.
And if we're actually being fair to both sides of the game, it means that things survivors do, just to grief killers, should also be nerfed.
-9 -
True, though in fairness, it does only apply to m1's... less useful for Billy, Nurse and Blight, and a lot of the prolific tunnelers are m2 killers.
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You bring KO for those rare games where you are "forced" to slug decked out 4-man SWFs? If you don't bring KO then this literally has no impact on your games. You can still slug them. There's even going to be a surrender option at the end of it for them so you don't even have to waste time tracking them down and hooking them.
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Again, if you are bringing in knockout, you are bringing that before you know that the survivors are bringing this. No I do not agree with survivors bringing builds like that or playing like that and yes you have to slug in that situation, but that you blame that rare occasions like that as an excuse for running a perk like knockout or slugging in every game.
You are grasping at straws and looking for the rare situations to justify a very unhealthy playstyle.
In the situations where slugging is necessary, it's necessary. Knockout is by no means a perk to bring when slugging is necessary, as I said previously, it is a perk to bring when you go into the match with the intention of slugging.
And if you want to talk about things being nerfed for used for griefing, then I guess the ability to move forwards and backwards needs to be nerfed on killer. Something tells me you make use of those frequently too.
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I never said knock out should have remained the way it was.
What I am saying is that if slugging is a problem that needs to be fixed, it should be fixed on BOTH SIDES of the game. But when BHVR nerfs Knock Out, and allows survivors to surrender early when everyone is slugged, it's basically only fixing the problems that negatively affect survivors.
BHVR could have easily made or announced anti-slugging things that would benefit killers, that would help reduce the frustration that happens when killers are repeatedly forced to slug. But none of that happened. Badham + basement in shack, is still a super grief that survivors can do. Any all the other ways that killers can be forced to slug is still fully intact in the game.
-8 -
I mean, hooks respawn now. Several maps have had hooks added in previously unhookable areas such as the upstairs area in Ormond. I think you're forgetting a lot of the stuff BHVR has done to combat survivors trying to make themselves unhookable. Even if that weren't the case, flaming people for being glad that BHVR are addressing annoying unfun gameplay doesn't seem like the smartest way of addressing annoying unfun gameplay
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BHVR has been working to try and prevent unhookable situation, in fact that have made many changes throughout the years focusing on addressing issues with Survivors holding Killer hostage via making themselves unhookable and unsluggable.
- Boil Over nerfed from 33% of Total Wiggle Progress to 33% of Current Wiggle Progress.
- Adding a hook to RPD's upstairs of the library, which unironically just inverted the situation by creating a hook location that Survivors could not rescue another Survivor from. RPD's upstairs of the library would eventually be removed altogether.
- Hooks added to many locations to prevent unhookable situations.
- Hooks respawn (seriously the best change they have made in my opinion).
- Nerfing perks that discouraged the Killer from picking up a Survivor (e.g. Background Player) so the Killer can get hooks easier.
- Introducing new or changing existing perks that promote engaging with hooked Survivors (e.g. Babysitter, Shoulder the Burden, etc.) with the intent of reducing Survivor-forced slugging and addressing other aspects of the game (tunneling) with it.
None of this is to say that BHVR is perfect, they still do ignore some issues, but you are acting like BHVR has not attempted to reduce slugging and encouraging hooking altogether.
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Except that the map offering change will combat your badham situation so what do you mean nothing has changed to help killers? Plus look at the list in the above post. As I said before, you are grasping at straws and jumping on the "only killers get nerfed" bandwagon without actually looking at it from both sides. You think that hook related perks have been nerfed too much? Then why is pain res still the most picked survivor perk? You get 20% more regression towards a gen hooking on a pain res than you do slugging a survivor while the other three could be making progress on gens. Then you probably complain about gen rushers.
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I'm saying there's supposed to be this massive anti-slugging plan, that's so huge that it spans multiple phases of the year, and yet 100% of the changes so far are to benefit survivors, and there are 0 announced changes that will benefit killers.
Are any of the anti-slugging changes in this giant 2025 plan, going to help killers?
-16 -
Yet 100% of the changes so far are to benefit Survivors, and there are 0 announced changes that will benefit Killers.
Map Offerings are getting nerfed to be a 20% chance instead of a guaranteed way of getting a particular map. This throws a wrench in your whole argument here since you quite literally cannot guarantee that you get a specific map to abuse. The 20% effect does not stack either, and Sacrificial Wards still exist in full effect.
They are changing the spawn rules to make Survivors spawn closer together which helps a lot of Killers get early on pressure where they tend to lack it. Unironically, it also buffs Corrupt Intervention and/or Lethal Pursuer as well since Survivors are required to run Shroud Offerings to split themselves up and the increase pressure from CI and/or LP can be insane.
And recently they announced a lot of Killer changes for the PTB which includes a lot of buffs and adjustments to Killer powers, including the long awaited 24m TR on Pig that people have been asking for years.
But yea… that arent making beneficial changes towards Killer… they are just ignoring them the entire time… ignoring all that I put, just sweep that under the rug.
Are any of the anti-slugging changes in this giant 2025 plan going to help Killers?
We dont know. We are only getting information as they make changes, and they do plan on making changes and adjustments to Killers if necessary to not only keep Killrates the same but to help prevent the systems they are adding from being abused. Mandy (among other community managers) have already been saying this for weeks.
You want to see if they add anti-slugging changes for Killers? Wait. There is quite literally nothing else you can do since we all objectively lack the relevant information to know for certain at the moment.
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I never said 0% changes will benefit killers. I said the anti-slugging project, that's literally supposed to be a multi-phased project, is so far 100% survivor sided, with 0% announcements, or anything to imply that killers are ever going to get anti-slugging things in their favor.
And the map offering thing hurts both sides of the game. Some killer builds are just plain awful if you can't choose a map. And it still heavily favors survivors, because if they pick 4 separate maps, it's still a 1 - (.8*.8*.8*.8) = 59% chance they get a map offering they want, compared to the 20% the killer gets when they bring a map offering.
And we already know that "adjustments to the kill rate" are sometimes just flat number buffs, with zero quality of life improvements. Kill rate adjustments are sometimes literally slightly faster kicking speed, which is a zero quality of life improvement.
Because that is how these balance changes sometimes work. Survivors sometimes get real quality of life improvements, and killers are just promised a certain kill rate, like it's a giant present that killers should be grateful for, as opposed to something necessary for the game.
-13 -
These changes will benefit M1 Killers around pallets, discourage early pallet drops/pallet wastes, and do nothing to smart Survivors. It also benefits Survivors as it no longer is a slugging perk.
This is a good, win win change overall with good counterplay. I'm all for this change and it will make me use Knockout on Killers like Pig, Ghostface, or Legion - who struggle around some pallets - more.6
