General Discussions

General Discussions

Knock Out Rework!!

"I used to pray for time like these"

Rest is piss Knock Out, you will NOT be missed

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  • Member Posts: 7,256

    YAY finally

  • Member Posts: 563

    To be fair I am going to miss it even though I didn't use it for griefing purposes. I run Knock Out on Nemesis alongside Brutal Strength, Enduring and Pop just to get that 'hulking brute with a strong punch' vibe going.

    Guess I have to find something to replace KO now, like Fire Up or Iron Grasp or something along those lines.

  • Member Posts: 405

    Tears of joy. I think we all can agree that KO was giving us horrible games due to the way it was used.

  • Member Posts: 563

    Good one, I am writing that down. I'm compiling a list of possible replacements and am going to try them all out 😁.

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    It sends the message that when slugging is the killer’s choice, it’s frustrating and should be fixed. But if survivors force the killer to slug, it’s not frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed.

    Survivors are still dedicating builds to making themselves unable to be hooked, but that’s not frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed? When I play against SWFs that swarm the area with flashlights, flashbangs, and sabotage toolboxes, to force the killer to slug... that isn’t frustrating, and doesn’t need to be fixed?

    Is slugging an issue on both sides of the game, or is it only an issue when it’s the killer’s choice to slug?

  • Member Posts: 3,968
    edited March 6

    Agreed... I'd have thought after downing someone with an m1, apply all the temporary effects (blindness, recovery speed, etc, and alike) and have them stay even if the survivor is returned to the injured state (via FTP or saves). Instead of crawl speed, give a hinder instead for the same duration.

    This would mean if the killer instant picks up and there is a save from their teammate, their teammate is still blinded, reduced vision and hindered when they atand up, and likely that teammate still needs to body block hard for them to reach safety, because the saved survivor is still "groggy" from the hit.

    This would fit "Knockout" much better.

  • Member Posts: 2,033

    I mean, it kinda can be explained by "being knocked out by a pallet", but that's a bit iffy.

  • Member Posts: 15

    No, thank YOU, the changes yall have been making recently are HUGE.

    Yall's communication, balance changes, and transparency are very much appreciated <3

  • Member Posts: 5,952

    Unfortunately all this will do is evolve the slugging strategy. Many have already evolved it being knockout because knockout only works against solo queue survivors typically, so why waste a perk for dealing with something you already should be winning against?

    We'll see what phase 2 does, but i don't hold high hopes as its all just "anti-killer doesn't play the way we want" rather than encouraging them to play they way we want, and we see how well that works for camping and tunneling.

  • Member Posts: 2,238

    I had been convinced Knock Out was going to get changed this patch, but am still so incredibly gratified to actually see it happen.

  • Member Posts: 230

    knock out becoming an anti predrop perk was not on my bucket list for today 😂

  • Member Posts: 413

    I’m just happy that we won’t have to deal with this perk anymore in solo que

  • Member Posts: 2,134

    Never understood why the perk existed to begin with. I'd be happy to see it go.

  • Member Posts: 888

    Great news, it’s bad and unfair when killers have good and useful perks!

  • Member Posts: 9,039

    oh finally that’s been a giant haha I’m a dick perk for years

  • Member Posts: 249
    edited March 6

    You realize that this perk on Clown will absolutely guarantee a hit now, right? What if it stacks with bottle? Have fun walking at 3.04 m/s for an potentially 5-7 seconds. That's a guaranteed hit every time.

    If the survivor is 16m ahead, predrops a pallet and moves away from it and into a bottle, and if the clown is invigorated, if both parties keep holding W the clown will catch up at around the time all buffs and debuffs wear off. 7.92 seconds.
    From 16m away. That's crazy. I don't even want to get into all the other stuff like Scamper, Spirit Fury + Hubris,…

  • Member Posts: 818

    I thought the same thing about Forced Hesitation, but that never did happen. So I don't see it happening with the new Knockout either.

  • Member Posts: 345
    edited March 6

    Have to see how it goes but could see them changing it in the future to pallet stuns instead of just pallet drops. Wonder how it would pair with Hubris also if they did that though?

  • Member Posts: 8,332

    Knock Out has been my least favorite perk in the game for years as a solo survivor. I didn't think they'd ever rework Knock Out to not be a slugging perk. I'm wicked happy they finally did something. This is great and it actual has more use now.

    I think they should make it so survivors make a grunt of pain whenever they get hit with this new Knock Out, just like the killers do when they get a pallet stun.

  • Member Posts: 8,901

    That would get quite abit of hate for applying to ppl who use DS.

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    When survivor burn a Badham offering and a "basement in shack" offering, they are going into the game with the intention of purposely hanging out in the school basement, where it's literally impossible to get them to a hook.

    But for whatever reason, that's not considered unhealthy even though it's literally 100% being done to grief the killer. However, if killers try to slug for the 4k, it's demonized and considered unhealthy for the game, even though they're literally doing it to raise their kill rate.

  • Member Posts: 1,168

    I prefer All-Shaking Thunder. Drop, cause a loud boom and then just ######### RAHHHHHHH

  • Member Posts: 9,431

    Ok, but the perk is now dog #########. Could they have given a little more thought into what the change should be? Who is going to run this in any build?

  • Member Posts: 3,019

    Same. The way Knock Out preyed on solo q survivors was insane. A huge step forward for the quality of life in slugging.

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    This thread is about knock out being nerfed, because of a claim that killers are using it to grief survivors.

    And if we're actually being fair to both sides of the game, it means that things survivors do, just to grief killers, should also be nerfed.

  • Member Posts: 3,968

    True, though in fairness, it does only apply to m1's... less useful for Billy, Nurse and Blight, and a lot of the prolific tunnelers are m2 killers.

  • Member Posts: 6,152

    You bring KO for those rare games where you are "forced" to slug decked out 4-man SWFs? If you don't bring KO then this literally has no impact on your games. You can still slug them. There's even going to be a surrender option at the end of it for them so you don't even have to waste time tracking them down and hooking them.

  • Member Posts: 119

    Again, if you are bringing in knockout, you are bringing that before you know that the survivors are bringing this. No I do not agree with survivors bringing builds like that or playing like that and yes you have to slug in that situation, but that you blame that rare occasions like that as an excuse for running a perk like knockout or slugging in every game.

    You are grasping at straws and looking for the rare situations to justify a very unhealthy playstyle.

    In the situations where slugging is necessary, it's necessary. Knockout is by no means a perk to bring when slugging is necessary, as I said previously, it is a perk to bring when you go into the match with the intention of slugging.

    And if you want to talk about things being nerfed for used for griefing, then I guess the ability to move forwards and backwards needs to be nerfed on killer. Something tells me you make use of those frequently too.

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    I never said knock out should have remained the way it was.

    What I am saying is that if slugging is a problem that needs to be fixed, it should be fixed on BOTH SIDES of the game. But when BHVR nerfs Knock Out, and allows survivors to surrender early when everyone is slugged, it's basically only fixing the problems that negatively affect survivors.

    BHVR could have easily made or announced anti-slugging things that would benefit killers, that would help reduce the frustration that happens when killers are repeatedly forced to slug. But none of that happened. Badham + basement in shack, is still a super grief that survivors can do. Any all the other ways that killers can be forced to slug is still fully intact in the game.

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    I'm saying there's supposed to be this massive anti-slugging plan, that's so huge that it spans multiple phases of the year, and yet 100% of the changes so far are to benefit survivors, and there are 0 announced changes that will benefit killers.

    Are any of the anti-slugging changes in this giant 2025 plan, going to help killers?

  • Member Posts: 4,184

    I never said 0% changes will benefit killers. I said the anti-slugging project, that's literally supposed to be a multi-phased project, is so far 100% survivor sided, with 0% announcements, or anything to imply that killers are ever going to get anti-slugging things in their favor.

    And the map offering thing hurts both sides of the game. Some killer builds are just plain awful if you can't choose a map. And it still heavily favors survivors, because if they pick 4 separate maps, it's still a 1 - (.8*.8*.8*.8) = 59% chance they get a map offering they want, compared to the 20% the killer gets when they bring a map offering.

    And we already know that "adjustments to the kill rate" are sometimes just flat number buffs, with zero quality of life improvements. Kill rate adjustments are sometimes literally slightly faster kicking speed, which is a zero quality of life improvement.

    Because that is how these balance changes sometimes work. Survivors sometimes get real quality of life improvements, and killers are just promised a certain kill rate, like it's a giant present that killers should be grateful for, as opposed to something necessary for the game.

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