yeah absolutely crawling away is always the move, if they’re following you crawl to anywhere but where people are.

I literally watch high mmr players do just that and get amazing results. They do that, or juggle two until the third arrives, be it on time or because they’ve got the other two on death hook. Then after their sweaty matches go “look at all these stacked perks” There’s a reason they can go perkless, it’s the strats and they’ve mastered them. Other people fail because maybe they’re playing a killer it’s harder to do that with, or they don’t play that killer enough to know all their ins and outs, or maybe the map, or maybe they’re generally not playing for kills but for hooks instead, but if there’s anything I’ve learned about survivor it’s that altruism is the real killer. It’s why they hate those 10 extra seconds so much. Killers in high mmr swear that you have to tunnel and slug though so what does that tell you?

yeah sure high mmr you can punish, agreed, punish and push gens(much easier said than done, probably much easier if you’re matched with players that also eat, sleep, and breathe the game more often than not). Apparently people aren’t always matched correctly though and Q times are prioritized. Or are they? Are the streamers tanking their mmr to get easier survivors for their streams? Or are good survivors dying consistently to this? How often does everyone escape at your level? 3 people?2 people? Even 1 person excluding hatch? Because best case scenario it’s 2 people on average according to stats(and that’s 4mans on comms) So if tunneling and slugging are necessary and most agree, there’s no way all the people chanting that, that have been on these forums for literal years are anything but mid to high mmr. So are you really punishing or are you sharing a space. Pure solo Q 1 person is surviving in the 30% range high mmr. There’s almost a 20% fluctuation between the lowest and highest point, and at the highest it’s HALF YOUR MATCHES NO MATTER HOW GOOD YOU AND YOUR TEAM ARE, or HOW GOOD OF A KILLER YOU ARE , if you’re at the absolute highest point you’re probably getting a 2k on average when you add up and divide all your games, if all you face are 4man swfs on comms, or it feels like it, and no matter what you do 2 is the average you can kill you, or manage to get out if you’re tracking that. So sure you can punish but realistically most of the killers generally agree you have to at some point(doesn’t matter when you decide to do it) agree that you have to tunnel and slug. I imagine had you not had unbreakable that match would of went much differently.

I can’t recall many matches where attempts to tunnel or slug doesn’t happen in some capacity, whether it’s from the jump, mid match, or at the end.

Even when you watch highest of high mmr streamers that predominantly play survivor they’re not 4man skipping out of there most of the time it’s 2 maybe three if they’re lucky, whether you’re killer or survivor, and they solo. They also still die about half the time, and it’s not because they aren’t good. It’s because strategies are that strong even at that level with all the macro and game counters included when survivors know how to counter what you’re running and generally counter the killer, and have loop knowledge, and game sense. Even with all of that 2 is the average for either side at the top of the mountain, publicly no restrictions. Two things are generally agreed upon though and it’s 1. Solo Q is rough. 2. Tactful tunneling and slugging is a must. If you’re averaging more than 2 per round as killer congrats you’re superior. If you’re getting out more than 5/10 matches as survivor congrats you’re superior. For the majority of the public it’s looking like 1k -2k as killer , and 3-4 out of 10 matches as survivor you go through the gate.

idk punish or be punished I guess it’s a pvp game it’s a dog eat dog outside the forums. I’m not complaining I’m just saying. I’d love to be matched with killers that almost never tunnel or slug when I start going up.

I generally agree with this, but it’s not always so black and white, and every now and then you get survivors that just do questionable stuff, but hey we’re all human, and we make mistakes and that’s okay. Also I’d say I play better when I solo because comms is super distracting, I’m more likely to do a stupid try for a save at endgame bc they’re my buddy and it’s just a game , and I’m very add and find it easier to clock in when it’s just me. At the end of the day though I’m just playing video games to have fun.

I'm a 450 hour killer who joined just as the 400% BP bonus for the first 2v8 got reduced. I was drawn in by Dracula, because Castlevania is one of my favorite franchises, and having the character I hyperfixate on be a top 5 in this game is pretty damn nice.

That being said, I feel like a lot of the new killer frustration comes down to "gens fly way too fast". Sometimes, you just enter a game where you get curbstomped by 4 people on comms, sometimes you curbstomp those 4 people and get insulted, games like that just kinda happen.

I am sometimes forced to slug or tunnel to get pressure if a lot of gens pop in my face. I don't enjoy it, I think the slugging and tunneling meta is boring, but it's undeniably strong and often necessary when you have multiple people co-ordinating to gen rush you to hell. A lot of people complain about 4 gen slowdown perk killers, but I feel like there's a deeper problem with that: How are you getting these gen slowdown perks in the first place?

Let's talk about some really popular gen slowdown perk combinations: Pain Res and Dead Man's Switch is very good, requiring two killers you can theoretically get for free. Pop Goes the Weasel is popular and very strong as well, but it is paired best with Eruption, a perk on a premium killer. Deadlock is currently a premium only perk, but will be made free in the near future. Surge WAS free, but is now attached to Demogorgon, one of the killers who goes on sale the least frequently. Nevermind the fact that grinding all the way to Artist, only to then grind her all the way to P3 takes a lot of time, and you'll probably have to do that with numerous killers.

Meanwhile, Unbreakable and Shoulder the Burden, two of the best anti slug and tunnel perks in the game, are also free, with Bill being unlocked for everyone. I wouldn't change this, to be clear, but we should also acknowledge that the best gen slowdown perk that killers start with is Brutal Strength, which barely counts.

Personally, I am all for stuff like the basekit BT, I'm for changing the meta against slugging and tunneling, but I feel like the base killer needs a little built-in gen slowdown as well. I would do the following:

• Reduce the action speed for kicking generators by 20%
• Increase the initial gen regression from a kick to 10% (was 5%)
• Moderately buff the gen regression speed (no exact number in mind)
• Increase the time needed to repair gens

and here's the one i think would help new killers most

• When the generator is repaired to 70%, you are given a loud noise notification, revealing its presence
• Tinkerer is buffed to have slightly longer Undetectable, to compensate for its noise notification being made basekit

That red herring buff though, survivor hand holding I swear.

Something about the whole thing bringing up 2017 or thereabouts, is that too old compared to the post-2022 changes I'm talking about? If you want to talk that old, I'll bring up Memento or something.

And one more thing. I think you should think separately about improving quality of life when playing and bailing out as a second chance.

＞addition of bloodlust

If you want to eliminate the safe zone of combined Windows that you can never catch up without, except for certain killers, you can remove it, but if you do that, you'll piss off the survivor-only players, won't you? Give it time and Gen will fix it, so don't complain about it.

＞Additions of blocks to vaults when used three or more times in quick succession

If you want to play a game that goes around the same place endlessly, you can delete it. I don't think anyone would play such a simple game.

＞Increase in vault speed

ditto above

＞Change to hooks so they cannot be permanently broken with a tool box

I'd put it back, but then it would be all sabotage PT vs slugging killer matches. If that's what you want, I'd use Singularity and Twins all the time to match the meta.

＞Change to hooks so they respawn following a sacrifice

If more players know the hook can't be fixed and run away from certain positions, then I'll slug it out like before. If there are too many players in each other's camps who find that amusing, then I'm fine with losing it.

＞Change to hook spawns so they consistently spawn closer together

It would be appropriate to generate hooks now and then. If you play Survivor, the hooks are too close together and it's terrible! If you play Killer, you have no hooks and you can't get body blocked! If you play Killer, you have no hooks and you can't get a body block.

＞Change to BNP so it doesn’t auto complete a gen

If you don't have it, you don't have it, and if the majority of people play on that basis, then you don't have it.

＞Nerfs to toolboxes

It's still used a great deal, but do you think the toolbox is weak? If there are a lot of people who would play with it if it were returned to its old strength, I don't see why not. And while we're at it, let's return Memento to its old specs.

＞Nerfs to medipacks

ditto above.Even now that it's been nerfed, I see PTs where 3 out of 4 are like instant heals, but on the other hand, do you find the current meta interesting?

＞Changing the hatch so it doesn’t spawn mid match anymore and only one person can escape as opposed to three

If that happens, I think players who definitely want to get 4K will use a lot of slugging, and players who definitely want to escape will start playing hide and seek. If they decide that's good enough, then maybe they'll go back to the old specs.

＞Implementation of continuous gen regression

I keep saying this, but if enough people, killer survivors or not, think it's fun to go back to the old specs, then maybe they'll go back.

＞removal of many ‘infinites’

It's like the windows story, but if enough players think it's fun to go back to the days when there was always a safe zone on the map where you could run away from the killer, then maybe they'll go back to the days when there were always safe zones where you could run away from the killer.

＞Changes to loops in general to a more unsafe design both historically and recent e.g blocking up a second window in the shack and putting holes in buildings where vaults were before

If you want an environment where you don't see any of these 4.6 m/s killers, why not bring them back? I don't think the level of discomfort is going to change that much, since the Red Forest and Badam still produce killers that can't be played properly depending on the generation.

＞Nerfs to gens speeds

If they decide they want to lower the kill rate by 10-15%, they'll go back. If enough people want to play Survivor and play a game where they can get away with 70%, keep speaking up and Jeff will adopt it.

＞Making maps smaller to increase map pressure/mobility

There's Red Forest and GoJ, which have been reworked and enhanced to be more like Survivor Side, rather than being reworked and not changed at all, but if you can balance the game by making everything more like that, why not? I've been using nurses for a while.

Various long ago included elements that both camps find boring to play with (especially the infinite loop), but you're mad about that as a mere nerf? There are a lot of elements that were removed because if they were there, the game would be unbalanced as a PvP game, but you put them back and you think it's a fun game to play?

Yes, the strongest survivor perk of all: Discord

Perks like Dead Hard and Shoulder the Burden are very literally second chance perks. You get an extra hit in chase, and a third hook state.

On their own they don't seem too huge, but when you have stuff like that on every survivor, it's a lot of extra time.

Forcing the killer to spread hooks makes a ton of games unwinnable. While you still have 12 hookstates to win, you no longer have someone dead at 5 or 6 hooks, and the game is lost. There's a huge difference between a survivor on death hook and two survivors hooked once.

The perk can delay the first death by one or two hooks and that's huge.

For the reactions. I, in good faith, cannot take any killer seriously when they say that the game is "Survivor-Sided" or "Survivors are Spoonfed" when BHVR CONTINUES to actively prove otherwise.

What it really comes down to is Killers raging at SWF without paying attention to SoloQ just to make things more and more difficult for SWFS to do as they do. Survive. With. Their. Friends.

As everyone knows, any change made to SoloQ can be abused in the hands of SWF and this leads killers into throwing a fit about how SWF are just "Too powerful." when it's just them properly communicating.

Case and point, Background Player.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Background_Player#6.6.0

This perk was immensely complained about because it allowed people to get crazy distance and Flashbang/Flashlight Saves more often. Given to the hands of SWF and it made the game far more challenging to Killers. They didn't like that.

Yeah, that's cause most survivors are totally awful at the game.

It does seem that way because the game demands more from survivors. If it was properly fair and balanced, you would see equal amounts of awful players on both sides.

I, too, am blown away by the complaints on Shoulder the Burden. It's literally a perk that screams, "Don't tunnel that guy, tunnel me instead!"

I don't think the perk is on it's own problematic, but to say it's not strong because it sometimes doesn't get value is ridiculous. Match where the killer is spreading hooks already have so much in your favor as survivor that you don't need that perk slot.

It's like saying NOED or No Way Out are weak because you can win matches before endgame.