General Discussions
General Discussions
Would It Be Busted To Give Self-Care Back Its Medkit Efficiency?
Title.
I've been thinking about how Self-Care is a really bad perk that heavily requires additional supporting perks to even be considered halfway acceptable, and how I'd fix that myself. It's a tricky perk to balance because raising its actual healing speed too much makes it broken, so instead, what if it gave you medkit efficiency like it used to?
Before, that was busted because medkits were busted, but now they're just balanced. Would it be problematic if Self-Care allowed you to eke out a few more charges from your medkit? What do you guys think?
Comments
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It could be worth a try.
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They could bring it back, medkits are a shell of their former self, but I’d rather increase the healing speed by 10% to 45%. Heals just take far too long.
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if i remember correctly before it had 20% efficiency in medkits right?
I don't care if they bring it back but it still wouldn't be very useful.
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They just need to give 50% heal speed back and rework strength in shadows. As both depending on the situation waste too much time.
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The number could definitely be increased. I was contemplating it potentially having a high enough number to cancel out Botany Knowledge if you ran both at once, that could be a viable use case.
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Hell they could increase the healing speed back to 50% and it still wouldn't be busted, especially if it retains the additional 33% penalty that medits have
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Yes. The heal meta unfairly gutted some Killers.
Next question.
Edit: 11 Downvotes as of this edit prove that 11 people probably don't play certain Killers much because the Heal Meta SUCKED. It wasn't OK. A better option is needed. The only way I'm okay with a change like this is if syringes get a change or nerf to not be instant.Post edited by LockerLurk on-9 -
Well, let's be reasonable for a moment- giving Self-Care medkit efficiency bonuses won't bring back old self healing on its own, that's hardly the only thing that changed.
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I've been trying the brainstorm while bored at work. I want to shoot this idea out, see what you think.
Self care works as is currently. Once you heal yourself fully, gain a token. Each token increases self healing by X%. Mac X tokens.
The starting speed could even be lower. Thoughts on how this could be abused, etc. Im probably missing something lol
Rats exist, and will do things even if perkless, so lets not let them ruin another perk idea lol. Thanks!
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We definitely could bring it to 70% and buff strenght in shadows to 100%.
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I think that would be alright. Self-Care is still a really good perk if used alongside Botany (or Hyperfocus), but giving it back the med-kit efficiency could make it an attractive perk in its own right again. Although its original 20% charge efficiency is a little lackluster with today's med-kits, where even if you use the two best charge add-ons it only comes out to 10 extra charges total, which don't even get you halfway through one self-heal. I think 40% increased efficiency could be good, as that way a max.-charge med-kit will give you 3 full self-heals.
Another thing I've been thinking would be reasonable is if Circle Of Healing were to apply to non-med-kit self-heals again. This would open up the viability of bringing Self-Care alongside Circle instead of Botany or the like, putting Circle back on the map a bit more again.
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No, that would be OP healing another survivor is essentially 32% of the generator, and given that two survivors need to get together, it's much more, self-care 50+ botany is 28 seconds + you don't need to waste time grouping
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It wasn't OP when it was 50% before the medkit nerfs when healing became 16 seconds, it definitely won't be OP if it's the new 24 second timer (meaning self-care takes 48 seconds to heal yourself), and it hasn't been OP since healing times went from 12s → 16s back in patch 2.3.0 - the perk has been mid since October 2018 and the 6.1.0 nerfs served to kill it outright.
Like don't get me wrong, self-care used to be the best perk in the game, bar none except maybe Decisive Strike. It has not held that crown for a long time because it wasn't the 50% that was busted, it was the 12s heals.
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Wait, I think I'm missing something - why would medkits having a debuff matter for how long Self Care takes to heal you?
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So when I wrote my original comment, I said that we could take it up to 50% again and it wouldn't be busted, especially if it also retained the 33% penalty for self-healing. I appreciate this wasn't worded the best, but it effectively then wouldn't be 50% as it'd be 50% speed reduced again by 33 (not 27%, that'd be a nerf, but I don't think it'd be much different from current live). When I wrote it I completely forgot Strength in Shadows existed as an example that that probably wouldn't be the case, but I figured it's worth mentioning because 6.1.0 is proof that they have no issues gutting an already mid perk if it's usage rate is high enough.
But I stand by my point, even if it's just at 50% healing speed, meaning it takes 32 seconds to heal yourself, that still won't be busted OP. It'll make it a good perk again, absolutely, but good doesn't quite cut it in the no-heal full-gens DH/UB/WGLF/SB/OTR meta. Why would you bring a perk to heal yourself when you don't usually need to do so more than once or twice per game & you're probably getting tunneled anyway so a syringe would give you more value (hell, second wind would give more value if you played it right). I genuinely do not see a world where 32 second self-heals break the game, especially not in its current state, when they didn't break the game in 2022 and didn't break the game in 2018. If you reverted the 6.1.0 nerfs to self-care, I do not think it'd see a particularly high spike in playrate at the higher levels, and at the lower levels would actively make weaker killers who rely on hit and run more better and more viable because players would think it a good idea to spend every waking moment healing.
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I'm just confused about why there'd also be a 33% penalty for self-healing, that's not something that current Self-Care has. That's just the penalty for healing yourself with a medkit.
Broadly I agree that 32 second self heals (or realistically whatever the number would be with Botany) wouldn't be broken, I just think it'd be more potentially interesting to go in another route to differentiate Self-Care from Strength in Shadows. Making it more of a medkit buffing perk would be neat, if it's done carefully.
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You are absolutely right.
With the current 16-second base time, self-care takes 48 seconds (or roughly 55% worth of a generator's progress) to complete, which is an utter waste of time, and a waste of a perk-slot, unless you pair it with Botany (which brings it up to 32 seconds).
I would be fine with them reverting self-care back to 50% and also giving it the efficiency bonus back. Though it could be more useful if the efficiency buff was 25% to counteract the debuff on self-healing with medkits
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I'd be opposed to this simply because the only thing it does is buff medkits, which they don't really need. The items that need buffs are maps and keys, not medkits.
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Because when I wrote my original comment I was very tired, had just done 4 hrs of work on UK land law, and didn't think my comment through very well lol. That's literally it.
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I'd say probably wouldn't be busted no... as long as the efficiency is a reasonable number.
The changes for healing over the years are to try and ensure that survivors are typically better off healing each other altruistically instead of themselves, which makes sense for a game where you're trying to really enforce the asym idea of working together but having this measured trade off about trying to save yourself.
The immediate concern is combining this with Botany Knowledge and Self Care, since you have a skillset that circumvents this core design principle...
However this isn't particularly strong, it's about the same value as just taking the brown add-on charges on a medkit anyway, and altruistic healing with things like We'll Make It are far more appealing.
I think this is probably the most well measured buff you could give Self-Care.
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Another thing to consider with the Botany Knowledge pairing is that you're giving up a lot of your loadout just to have relatively speedy heals - item, presumably both addon slots for the extra heal, and two of your four perk slots. I think it hits a healthy intersection of not being too much better than the alternatives, but also being proportionally rewarding for how much you're investing into it.
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The problem with it being 50% is efficiency.
The point is self care SHOULD take more total survivor time than 1 survivor healing another basekit.
- Right now it takes 16 charges at 1 c/s to heal another survivor. So basically, 16 seconds.
- Right now self care makes you heal at 0.35 c/s, so basically 45.7 (we''ll say 46) seconds.
So getting healed by another survivor takes 32 total seconds of survivor time off of gens, and self care does 46 seconds. If self care was buffed back up to be 50% for example, you could heal yourself just as fast as it would take another survivor to heal you, but without the cost of having to find a survivor, and be grouped up (making it easier for the killer to pressure). It effectively would take all pressure off of healing at all. On top of that, it can be used an unlimited number of times.
If you want to buff self care healing "SPEED" back up to say, 50%, so its the same as another survivor healing you, then it needs to have some kind of conditional activation, or activation limit, or some other factor that makes it so you can't use it forever, and that it can't stack with medkits to give you tons of heals.
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I think the self care efficiency should just cancel out the medkit inefficiency penalty 1 for 1.
So +33% or 50% depending on how you look at it but on paper it basically means medkits will heal for 1 second per charge. It does let you do 1 heal in 24s and then half a heal in 12s and finish it with self care in 24s for a 36s heal. Saving ~22+10s compared to self care alone
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