Feedback and Suggestions
Feedback and Suggestions
Should Ghost Face have a 24 meter Terror Radius??
This is something I've been going back and forth on since Ghostie released.
The most recent cooldown changes were quite welcome, but I still feel like it's kinda in that sweet spot of being just a little bit too long in basekit to feel like a reliable stealth power against more experienced players— especially on smaller maps or maps w/ many pallets like The Game or Garden of Joy (though these maps are pretty tough for a lot of the cast, fairly).
So, I figure Ghost Face having a smaller Terror Radius would be a more… interesting and nonconventional way of buffing him. Should Ghostie be the next 4.6 m/s, 24 meter terror radius killer, following in Sadako's footsteps?
Alternatively, should Ghostie have a way to reduce his Terror Radius on the fly more akin to The Pig? I'd really enjoy seeing something like Ghostie's Knife Belt Clip add-on (reduces Terror Radius by 12 meters while crouching) be integrated in his basekit? This would enable Ghostie to be consistently more stealthy by slightly softening the blow of losing Night Shroud and letting him be a little more stealthy during that kinda lengthy 17 second cooldown. Seeing as Chucky, for instance, has a 10 second cooldown on his stealth power that's MUCH stronger in chase, this could be a route to take that doesn't include purely reducing the cooldown to something super short.
Right now I could go either way on it, and could think of some pretty good arguments for both sides. I dunno, lemme know what you think. :)
Comments
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Good idea.
I think one mandatory change that should happen is survivors not being able to reveal you on hook. Or at least reduce the range they can reveal.
I get that it was added to prevent camping, but:
1. You can still camp as Ghostface, you just have to position yourself where they can't reveal you.
2. Camping as Ghostface is stupid idea anyway.
3. It's a massive annoyance. You get revealed from 30 meters away behind a rock by a hooked survivor
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I don’t understand why most stealth killers have a huge terror radius anyway. I’m all for reducing them for those killers. Your other suggestion sound good too.
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I did actually suggest earlier this week that Ghost Face get the delayed reveals add-ons on hooked and downed survivors added to basekit!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/434058/a-couple-more-ghost-face-tweaks-to-make-him-perfect#latest1 -
guys they did it let's goooo
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Hey Congrats
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LOL
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I welcome the 24 meter terror radius. It will allow you to not show heartbeat that suddenly dissapear and make people run from gens, A build i could imagine myself running is franklin/weave/surge/monitor and abuse to get it down to 16 meter. You do not really need more than Surge as ghostface anyway.
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No. Killers should be encouraged to use their power, stealth killer gameplay is faceroll enough as it is
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? lol ghostie is bottom five killers in the game, if anyone needs to be using their power effectively, it's ghost face
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This change isn't going to discourage Ghostface from using his power. It just makes him a little stealthier particularly when his power is on cooldown.
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I feel like "stealth killers are faceroll" is a great example of the general phenomenon where survivor mains don't understand what parts of playing a killer are and aren't skillful play and vice versa. People that don't play both roles end up with some wild misconceptions about how the game actually works that drive a lot of really pointless arguments, and this is how we end up with a million dash killers and second chance perks, because every time a killer or survivor didn't do something right in front of their face it's "unfair."
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Is that supposed to be a rebuttal to what I said? where is the correlation
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Yeah without any skill or risk like that which is required to actually use the power
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Ok, but I play both sides and still I say stealth killers are faceroll. Very little mechanical/macro skill required if any, usually just taking advantage of lack of info given to survs in uncoordinated teams to sneak up on them and get free hits, that's not skill, thinking it is is just confirmation bias
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That’s a wild take. Stealth killers are a lot weaker than the other ones and you know that you play a horror game? These killers are the only ones who actually embody horror to some degree.
You would probably say nurse is more skillful, but on the other hand performing well with ghost face requires a lot more skill.
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Its a horror themed game, doesn't mean killers popping out on top of you and getting a free hit just because you're not on comms takes any skill, there are plenty more intelligent ways to buff ghost face that aren't free. And yes nurse is 1000% more skillful than ghost face, doing well with ghost face doesn't require more skill from the killer player it just requires less coordinated survivors
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So why doesn’t ghost face have a 1000 win streak? If nurse is so difficult compared and requires so much more skill than him, ghosty should be able to do the same.
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Because coordinated survivor teams exist
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I'm sorry but I really think you're misunderstanding this Killer, possibly because you may not have played him before. Knowing when to activate or not activate Night Shroud IS using his power, it's his entire power actually. Playing with the terror radius being there/being smaller/not being there is very important to playing Ghostface effectively, all half decent Ghostface Mains do this and he even has addons for it. It's like how Huntress Mains know how long to hold a hatchet for, or how Demo Mains know to fake a shred. It's just a lot more passive.
Besides, as a low mobility stealth Killer that by nature relies on ambush and not chase, there is absolutely no reason on Entity's Fog-laiden Earth that Ghostface should have a 30 m TR. It just does not make sense, and it actually hinders his ability to get close, settle in and stalk properly within a decent striking range before sneaking up in stealth for the down. The same is true of Pig, and that's because you're intended to use your TR or lack of one to fool the Survivors a bit. With Ghostface especially, the whole idea is you use your stealth to stalk and your lack of TR/small TR to confuse Survivors into bad plays or misreads on where you are.
These Killers do not need fancy kits or a lot of crazy chase powers, and not having those doesn't make them less skillful or easier to win with - it actually requires more basic Killer skill and makes them a lot harder to win with since you have no fallback if you fail. For ambush Killers like Pig and Ghostie, you're supposed to strategize. Basic M1 chase and mindgames can pick up the rest of the slack when a chase does happen, and DOES take considerable skill to be good at. It may not be flashy, but stealth Killers aren't supposed to be flashy. They're supposed to be sneaky.
This is a good change and a slight buff to a Killer that could use some buffs. Now all that's needed is frankly to fix his Reveal to be more fair both sides, maybe shrink what distance he's revealable from a bit to encourage stalking more or lengthen reveal time, and perhaps some addon changes to make certain addons more useful. These are all things I head Ghostface Mains say he needs, and I can agree as I sometimes play him myself - and if you've ever actually played him you'd know that being stealthy against and out-mindgaming coordinated Survs is NOT at all easy, NOT at all free, and does in fact require skill at Killer in general.I think you just might be biased because you believe M1 Killers are too easy to play and thus have no value, which just is a terrible take. Not everyone wants to play complex Killers. Just because you can easily spam a power without thinking, or the power has a lot it can do, does not make a Killer "more skillful". In fact, I'd say Nurse is one of the easiest to understand and least skillful Killers in the game compared to someone like Pinhead, Huntress, Singularity or even Pig or Trapper (who require planning things out a bit). She just is not that complicated.
… Actually, I would definitely say because Ghostface has a lot more to worry about based on how he gets his power and uses it, and how he is intended to stalk, he definitely takes a little MORE effort than Nurse does simply because you need to be clever with his power to do well.Mechanical skill with a power is not the only kind of skill you can have in this game. Or any game for that matter. Strategy is also a skill.
Post edited by LockerLurk on3 -
It sounds like you might just be upset that you have to bother looking around and being aware of your surroundings. Normally survivors can play the lazy game and just watch for a red heartbeat to know when to do something other than holding m1 down on a gen. With stealth killers, survivors have to make the effort of being alert and watching for signs of a nearby killer (sounds, crows flying away, etc...). The issue isn't a killer lack of skill (which ghostie needs a ton of since he needs to be VERY good at m1 looping and mindgames to succeed) but instead an issue of survivors actually doing more than holding m1 on a gen.
If ghostie is so problematic for you to face, you need to consider than you're getting beaten by one of the weakest killers in the entire game - one of the easiest ones to play against. Ghostie has no chase powers, no ranged powers, no anti-loop, and so on. His entire kit is built around ambushes, mind games, and the element of surprise. As a survivor, it's the single thing you have to worry about vs him as a killer as opposed to the large amount of things you have to worry about on other killers.
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It's not "strategy" to mindlessly sneak up on survivors with little counterplay for uncoordinated teams. "Fooling" survivors is not skill, it happens automatically by playing a stealth killer and with this change even moreso, so long as you're up against a team that isn't an alpha swf. Word it however you want but sneaking up on people isn't skill and the copium is crazy
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Mindlessly sneaking up on survivors might work at the lower MMR brackets, but going up against experienced survivors means getting into their heads to try to come up with an approach that they don't expect. It's just like looping - anyone can chase anyone in a circle around a wall, but it takes skill to pull off mindgames to trip people out during the chase.
With ghostie, you have to put in a lot of game experience to best figure out the most likely place survivors are, which paths they are likely to take, and cut them off in an ambush. If you have no skill in doing so, then you'll be ambush no one and wasting precious time.
For example, the following was part of a small series I was putting together about ghostie ambush logic. This isn't comprehensive, but was a quick example of how to take a step back and gauge your surroundings to find a good place to ambush. Just running stealthed in a straight line like you suggest "works" simply doesn't cut it at higher level play.
Here's another utilizing your actual TR to generate the illusion of a chase, then using stealth to make them feel that their exit is safe
And one more example. Someone with zero stealth skill probably would have just kept chasing or tried to cut them off and end up catching no one. However, a skilled ghostie can get into the mindset of the opposing players to have their tactics work against them. This link should automatically skip to 6 minutes, but if not, skip to 6 minutes.
None of this is just stealthing and taking a straight line to the nearest gen like you assume that all stealth plays are like.
Even if you disregard all of this and pretend taking a stealth direct line to a gen is the only stealth play and takes no killer skill, the entirety of the survivor going down in that case is entirely on the survivors skill. If a survivor is caught off guard on a gen, that's entirely on them, as an experienced survivor would be looking around and being very aware of their surroundings. Your whole issue comes down to a lack of survivor skill, not a lack of killer skill.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on1
