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Need help with ghoul counterplay
I am not asking for nerfs, I want to try to actually learn his counterplay before i make such decisions.
I'm struggling a little with 1 specific part of his power. I don't know if it has a specific name but its where the ghoul can like launch himself forward at high speeds and tag a survivor with a extended cooldown animation which applies deep wound. I try to take cover, use the environment to make it harder to tag but I seem to be getting tagged before i can even react.
Any tips so i can fix my skill issue?
Best Answer
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There are a few key points to note
- The killer is strongest when they are able to do the slide. They can only slide on the leap that isn't the last (so the 1st leap, and also the 2nd leap when they are enraged) the last leap does not slide.
- Treat the killer like you would a blight most of the game, don't just go out into the open or you are gonna get hit. You need to stay in the loop until you force the killer to either break the pallet, or stun them with it.
- When it comes to the pallet vault thing, don't just drop the pallet, you need to try and stun the killer, or bait them. When they go to right click and go for the leap, if you keep running instead of dropping the pallet, they are slowed significantly enough that you should be able to get around the loop before they can catch up, resetting the situation.
- If you drop the pallet and they back up slightly, you are going to get hit by the power probably, you need to treat it like a huntress, or xeno, or nemesis etc and not just drop the pallet, you are going to hit by those killers too, just like this one will hit you if you do that.
- Seriously, pay attention to the slide, you get to see the icon the killer sees where they are aiming, so you can judge where they are going to land and where the slide is going to go to, so start to position yourself out of LoS of them based on that. When holding the attack they move slower than a survivor does, so if you get out of LoS you should be able to avoid them.
- Realize that the attack is HITSCAN and not a proper "hit". This is why sometimes it looks like you get hit through a wall, because the killer clicked the button while you were on their screen, and it happens on frame 0, then you stop moving and they dash forward and then the hit happens. In reality you actually already got "hit" as soon as the button was clicked, the animation just plays out later.
- Don't heal against the killer, but also don't not heal, treat it kind of like a plague with the fountains. You want to sometimes heal, but you don't want to just heal every single time. Its hard to judge when that is the case, but generally, if the whole team is injured, its time to go for a heal. If you need to go for a save, its time to heal.
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Answers
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You'll have counterplay once they give him some cool downs. At the moment they can easily injure you, then zone you with their power then instantly cancel it and down you.
Until that gets changed with some proper cool downs there's not much you can do.
6 -
His cooldowns are healthy, he needs number nerfs on his attack range and his post leap attack cooldown
-16 -
What has worked for me so far is completely ignoring using pallets, the 1st hit is super easy to get so never waste resources. When you are injured and he trues ti follow up swing, double back to a pallet, he'll go on cooldown for 5 seconds when using 1-2 leaps in enraged.
-1 -
Apparently, the Ghoul's special deep wound attack is actually hitscan, not projectile. Unlike Deathslinger or Dracula, where the attack is a projectile that can miss, the Ghoul will never miss once he's started the attack. Basically, as soon as he has the bite mark icon over you, he's going to get the injury.
Unfortunately, the only solution is to play it like Nurse, and prioritize breaking line of sight so he can't get that icon over you in the first place. In my experience, even if you try to move behind a wall after the icon appears, he often still lands the attack. The best way to play against Ghoul seems to be tall loops, so you can stay out of LoS as much as possible.
Hope this was at least a little helpful.
2 -
Theres no counterplay
8 -
Counterplay? That's possible against this trash heap of a killer…? The same Killer that's hitting me through walls and has crazy autoaim? The same killer that can leap across maps and flick more effectively than a blight?
Please, tell me more.
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Just run MFT + Resilience + indoor map offering like everyone else is so they can't actually commit to a chase after the first hit. EZ.
2 -
This one is tough. I've started to have some success in solo queue, but looping this killer is *heavily* dependent on RNG.
- Don't try to dodge the first hit. Your priority is getting to a strong structure or chain of tiles. You can not dodge the first hit unless the killer is severely inebriated.
- The vast majority of Ghoul players will M1 chase at tiles. I've had many reach bloodlust 1000 before they downed me.
- It's not always possible, but don't run into a dead zone. Ghoul will leap cancel and M1 you. You really need to have a chain of 2 or 3 tiles to have a chance.
- Don't hang out near windows or downed pallets. If you do, move as they start to leap+vault. Don't collide with them on the vault. It can down you.
- The macro rules still apply. Don't waste someone's entire chase by healing and not touching a gen. Do gens if they're proxying the hook and 1 for 1 at the last second. The over-healing is what's killing most solo squads. You're just giving a hook state for free if someone is in a chase and you spend the entire time healing. And please, please, please pay attention to where you're running and going down. I've had so many teammates repeatedly die inside of a 3 gen that we're trying to break since Ghoul released.
9 -
The vast majority of Ghoul players will M1 chase at tiles. I've had many reach bloodlust 1000 before they downed me.
I mean there's really no reason to try to use your power on a lot of loops. Trying for bodyblocking plays at pallets is pointless against people who realize they can just sit in the direct middle of the pallet and wait until he's on top of you & cancels to stun him. And at multi-window setups you usually have plenty of time to just vault the one window he's not blocking.
I'm really starting to think the giga-high skill ceiling people are claiming this killer has is imaginary, and largely relies on survivor unfamiliarity & as you said, map RNG.
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The whole point of his power is to easily get injuries on the 1st hit and struggle on the 2nd like legion.
-1 -
Theyre one of those killers where you are going to get downed no matter what so it comes down to not getting instadowned and the team having enough gen pressure to finish the gens before everyone runs out of hooks.
Getting a 4 out is impossible unless the player is awful, getting a 3 out is hard unless the player isn't playing to win.
1E-2E should be treated as a win vs this killer in its current state, especially if you finish all the gens.
2 -
Literally this is the counterplay having 3% more speed is literally making it easier to loop him.
-1 -
It's the 3% + the faster vaults & gen speed from resilience, and then the cherry on top being on a map where his mobility is worse for both chase & macro. Throw in some friends with boons and you have about half of the matches I've been experiencing lately. Very fuuuuuuuuuun.
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It’s not impossible if people would just use made for this and resilience.
Post edited by DINNERBRAINS on-1 -
Good advice right here ^ people are exaggerating the lack of counter play substantially
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Don't hold W; hug loops and chain tiles that are close together. Don't try to greed for another tile if there is one closer to you. Use Made for This and another endurance activation perk like Dead or WGLF and greed AROUND your current tile as much as possible. On average, if a tile is average-sized, you will be able to run around it 3/4/5 times before he is within lunge distance. Be careful for them doubling back, as this will be how they try to outplay you when they realize you're running Made for This.
Boons also help against him, I've found. Free hits and all.
My build has its strengths. I use Balanced Landing, WGLF, Decisive Strike, and Made for This.
Resurgence, Overcome, Made for This, and Hope are also very strong against him.
Don't panic drop pallets if you have nowhere else to run, as he will just break it and hop on your back—greed pallets with Made for This.
Try to loop as far as possible from the gens being worked on, and also, if you know you're going down, run as far as you can away from the middle of the map, emote on pallets to waste time during pick up even if no one is nearby.
Try to play as if you're playing against Billy by losing line-of-sight and making unexpected pathing choices if you have distance.
Also, indoor maps are awful for him. Do with that what you will! ;)
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It’s literally the same counterplay as legion. I don’t understand why is it so hard for y’all to loop him lol. It takes a while for him to down someone using made for this.
-2 -
Nerfing this killer means made for this no longer should have movement speed granted on it. It gots to go.
-5 -
Either that or make the QTE system decide whether it applies deep wound or not. QTE = deep wound, no QTE = no deep wound.
-1 -
Can they make it more consistent first? It sometimes doesn't even show up long enough to have the prompt for me, which is annoying when it's the only thing they attached any real BP gain to.
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I think it might have something to do with distance? Like if you're right next to someone when you initiate it it gives you basically no time at all to do it? Which gets even finnickier with sliding (as does a lot of stuff). I dunno. It could definitely use a polishing pass.
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Unlike Legion though he has far better versatility with his power, and since indoor maps are no longer guaranteed, he can still traverse the map extremely quickly even on indoor maps.
When running into such survivors who are looping very well with Made for this, its more often than not better to leave them with the deep wound and catch other survivors off guard. With good regression perks and spread out pressure, it simply comes down to pallet resources and perks. I like running a mix of Centipede which blocks windows while enraged, and the Unknowns perk which gives 5% movement speed after vaulting. Friends till the end also helps with snowballing while corrupt guarantees seeing the obsessions aura.
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If you leave chase that survivor is gonna call it out that the killer left and is looking for someone else. And I saw how people were abusing the fire up exploit which isn’t supposed to be speeding killer powers vault but that shouldn’t warrant a nerf because people abusing exploits
-1 -
I've had better luck this weekend than I did during the week. Things that have been working better for me:
- Stealth: Have a hiding spot prepared and creep toward it as soon as you hear the TR, until you know for sure where the Ghoul is and whether it's coming to your gen. One good thing is that the Ghoul glows bright red, so you can often see it in the distance on outdoor maps.
- We'll Make It: If you time your save well, you can get a heal off before the Ghoul pops back to the hook.
- Play the first hit like Blight: The Ghoul has to interact with the environment before it can attack you, so listen/watch for it to hit the scenery, and then try to put the scenery between you and it until it loses the ability to leap again (the difference is you have to break LOS, obviously).
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Gen rush is your best bet; slap on Resilience and reject those offhook heals. You get more value spreading out than clumping up. Your life is on a timer like with Bubba once those Pallets are gone you're dead so you really need those gens going before yall die.
Some slight stealth and info go a long way, too. From my own personal experience running Treacherous Crows, I don't feel any more at risk vs this killer being permanently broken with Iron Will than I do normally.
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to add too if you’re not the best at the game and die a lot go with friendly competition over resi. Resi is for the entity’s bravest warriors.
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uhh you can't that's the kaneki tax and he can't down you with it either
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