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Opinion about the Blood Generator feature
Hey,
just out of curiosity what is your opinion about the new feature that survivors have to go to a blood pump, fill it up with blood, and then go to a blood generator and fill it with this blood. Of cause, the feature is still completly new but what is your first impression after playing as survivor or killer and play around it.
Also, what is your opinion that it is an intended feature that no perk (both sides), addon, and killer power applies/works with blood generators.
Comments
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I like getting oil and filling up those generators a lot more than sitting there for ages to do a generator and the killer easily finding you.
About the perks not interacting with it. I don’t mind the regression perks, but fire up is frustrating. Killer power and addons not affecting them is probably frustrating as well, but don’t play them so I’m not affected.
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Without Fixated on it feels extremely tedious. With Fixated on it's…. slightly less tedious. It gives damn near no Bloodpoints doing it, you have to be the one to finish filling the gen to receive the BP. If it gave more BP for the effort and awarded everyone in the match BP for the generator popping, I'd be happier.
Also, what is your opinion that it is an intended feature that no perk (both sides), addon, and killer power applies/works with blood generators.
Well, BVHR said it's that way because they're testing the feature. The blood gens work so differently from normal gens that regression and slowdown perks not working on them makes sense. Ditto for survivor perks. Killer powers and perks like Fire Up not being activated by blood gens seems bad, though.
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my basic thoughts:
- Cans on the ground should decay WAY slower.
- Cans while running should decay WAY faster.
- Blood pump auras should be revealed to survivors in some way in the future (offering/map/perk) because finding them on indoor maps is hard.
- Urban Evasion should be 50% or 100% more than what it is currently set to. Urban Evasion and Fixated should not be the same speed in the trial. It’s literally the same perk at that point? Urban Evasion needs a reason to be chosen over Fixated. Fixated is literally standing UE + scratch marks, which means it has more utility/mobility.
New features are difficult to implement. It makes complete sense that we would use the Blood Moon as a good opportunity to play test a new mechanic. We want to reduce waste, not risk another failure. Imagine how much time would be lost if they spent 20 hours reworking the coding for perks, when instead they could give us a delivered product to play around with. We can have opinions and thoughts this way without wasting anyone’s time. I’ve had a lot of fun this event so far.
I do not think many people realize it yet, but …
If Blood Generators are brought into the base game, THREE GENS WILL BECOME SUPER RARE. It is highly unlikely that all remaining generators will be BOTH close together AND all three the same type. If any three gen scenario holds a blood generator, three survivors can work on it at the same time and finish it very quickly. No more stalemates, just action and flow.3 -
Too scared of all the crybaby console players
???
If only it wasn't part of a mode.. BHVR still doesn't have the balls to implement anything new into the main game mode
You know why modes like this exist, right? I mean, events didn't used to take place in a separate mode, it all used to be one queue. The "serious players" complained to high hell about how every little thing added ruined serious gameplay. They want their gameplay loop to remain as it is. Nothing to do with PC vs console. Hell, console players are usually more casual; if you're serious about the game, you need the performance of a PC and the precision of M&K. If you're on console then you have to deal with the input lag, the lack of precision of an analog stick, the low fps, and the (sometimes debilitating) frame drops, and taking the game seriously will drive you seriously mad.
Post edited by BoxGhost on7 -
I wish perks still worked on them
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Not triggering non-regression things is… bad.
I don't know what Pig did to deserve a nerf this time, and not being able to use fire up just makes me sad. I want to use my goofy action speed build. :(
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These modes exist to allow players like myself to get away from the very stale game play that is normal DBD. Either way, they'll never implement any of it into the actual game. Just bread crumbs. I guess it's better than nothing.
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I'm disappointed the event modes haven't been crazier, really changing up the objective and what not, since anyone who doesn't like it can go right back to normal mode. In the event mode BHVR could test huge changes and see how they play out.
I wish they had put the piles of snowskulls from the winter holiday event on the Ormond maps. I miss the snowskulls so much. Snowball fights were one of the best things to ever happen in DbD. I'm probably alone in that opinion, though, which illustrates exactly why BHVR keeps these things relegated to a separate mode: everyone has their own idea of fun, and normal mode is the bread and butter of this game, it's always populated no matter what other mode may be active.
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As long as they have mindless drones logging in/eating up whatever they throw out, nothing else really matters.
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Personally I don't like them, nothing against them trying something new but pump to gen over & over just isn't for me, will play the blood moon until all the tomes are done & boost the community goals but I try to do the 3 normal gens first & let everyone else mess with blood gens unless its right there or over half done.
To each their own
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I wish the decay were slower id love to "wake up" a couple blood gennies
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Crouch-walking is half the speed of walking by default. Urban Evasion brings your crouch-walking speed up to the same speed as regular walking. Because you're harder to see while crouched and your injury noises are reduced by 50%, Urban gives you the luxury of enjoying those benefits without any compromise to movement speed.
If Fixated didn't apply a speed buff to walking, it would be a direct downgrade to Urban and Urban would be the objectively superior perk 100 times out of 100.
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- I prefer "old" generators. Trying excellent skill checks is fun for me.
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I assume this is a bit of a concession to the wish people have brought up often throughout the years that there be stuff around the map survivors have to find in order to be able to repair generators.
But personally I fail to see how this is an improvement over normal gens. On normal gens I at least get skill checks, which are the least bit engaging of a minigame, trying to get as many greats as possible. With the blood gens, I'm just walking back and forth between periods of pressing M1. Very exciting! It's another "non-event". Well, people that still need BP or are still excited about getting them will naturally find a BP-focused event thrilling, but for long-time players like me, it if anything makes things even less exciting, as spending BP is mostly just a chore. The bulk-spending feature can't come soon enough (and should have been here years ago already).
I will say that forcing survivors to move about more in order to do gens does encourage interaction, since they will more often encounter or be intercepted by the killer, then also losing part or all of the fuel. This could make for a workable replacement for gens if they increase the time it takes to complete these gens (and if all perks, mechanics, add-ons, powers also applied properly, of course). Although there should be more mechanics tied to it still - skill checks for starters, but also more interactive ways to collect fuel and lose it, such as stuns and hits for two obvious ones.
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i love the blood generators, they need more variety like this in normal games stat
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The blood generators are a good start to fundamentally altering what makes the game unfun for the survivor side.
Sitting on a generator while one person loops a killer so all can leave is not really engaging.
They've done a lot to work around this crippling design flaw, and I think the blood to bucket system can finally cover enough ground(engagement wise) to make the required rebalance of everything worth consideration.
So, I really like these, I wish they would give us a mode with just these, balanced time wise for the new play style and split classic DBD with the generators and current time issues into a separate thing, although I want such an approach I'm not sure what I would recommend for the implementation. I can sense a lot of players with heavy time investment into DBD classic wouldn't stay around if it replaced the base experience.
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I'm enjoying the variety it brings to a trial, I'd love to see it refined down the line and given more care in future iterations so it's fun for both sides for it to exist.
Some maps its abysmal in like swamp where the distance is huge between them, and the points they give are non-existant and frustrating if someone finishes one you worked the majority on.1 -
There's a lot of good things they've considered, many of them community complaints, and addressed with this system:
The good, or at least, the "we're listening":
- Survivors get an objective that's not just starting at a progress bar, but also isn't just "extra gens". A partial scavenger hunt with stealth encouraged.
- The draining mechanic is just regression by another name, which means killers are "being rewarded for chasing survivors who are working on gens". You don't even have to kick, it just drains naturally.
- Survivors are incentivized to move slowly/stealthily and traverse the map, which slows down progress and gives killers the opportunity to prevent gen progress from being deposited.
- The cans drain slowly instead of some stupid "you lose all progress when you are hit" mechanic (looking at you, potential energy).
- Blood gens prevent any progression, and regression/slowdown from applying.
The bad:
- The perks and abilities are too broadly banned on blood gens. Progression, regression, gen blocking, slowdown, etc are perfectly fine to disallow. Perks like fire up, or even pig hat activation need to be re enabled to function. (Maybe next iteration).
- Killers seem to not understand that chasing survivors and interrupting can progress is regression. People are just defaulting to camping and tunneling, which is the opposite of what this system is trying to encourage. I'm not sure how to make this more clear without just marketing it as "survivors collect gen progress at the station and it regresses when you chase them or they drop it".
- Blood gens and fuel stations need to have minimum distance to spawn from each other, some seem too close. This might be intended to prevent something like 3 genning (where all blood gens spawn on the left side of rpd, all fuel stations on the right, effectively making camping the lobby a new 3 gen scenario), but with 4 blood gens and RNG this situation seems too unlikely. Maybe having stations closer to the regular gens?
- It feels weird that killers are encouraged to kick gens, when the mechanic isn't kicking. Challenges and BP should be awarded for causing blood to drain from cans by any means, which would also help clarify that this is regression too.
The ugly:
- Blood points need to be awarded for depositing into the gen, not just on completion. Rewarding the "last person" to finish the gen is just silly.
- Event offerings should be shared with all 5 players, even if the amount is lowered accordingly.
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I think the game could use a mode where there's a mixed bag of many different kinds of generators. Blood generators and other generators like...
Sacrificial generator (20 seconds of using the sacrificial generator will progress the generator by 50% but also inflict one damage state on the player, the generator can't be kicked but will start regressing if a survivor is hooked and will regress faster if more survivors are hooked, regression will stop once all survivors are unhooked)
Battery generator (finding 2 batteries around the map and installing it on the generator will activate the generator and complete it to 100%, kicking the generator when it has one part installed will scatter the part In a 24 meter radius from the generator, installing a part takes 20 seconds)
The possibilities are great
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It's definitely an interesting function. As a killer, I don't think it changes much. Maybe it's because I mostly just play Survivor, but I find the gas stations very refreshing. It would also be cool if you could refuel the default gens with some sort of gasoline and then start the repair process. Maybe that would make perks like Currupt Intervention less lucrative or something.
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TL;DR: Neat idea, needs iteration.
There's stuff I like about this system. I've always been wary about the idea of putting a system like this in the game because I don't think it'd be nearly as good as people think it would, but this is a smart way of doing- both because it's only in an event mode, and because they didn't hard replace every gen with the blood generators. That adds an interesting layer of variety to how you're tackling your objective within a trial, because some of your tools will be good for dealing with regular generators, and new tools (many of which most wouldn't consider much otherwise, like Fixated) are good for dealing with blood generators.
In a similar vein (pun fully intended), I think it's smart not to allow slowdown or direct-progression perks to work on blood gens. Where I think we come up against issues is that blood gen completion doesn't count as gen completion either, so killers like Pig don't get to use their power nearly as much, and some other non-slowdown tools like Fire Up or Coup de Grace don't get to function as much either.
This isn't a tremendous deal right now because real generators still need to be finished, but it's the big, underlined, bolded feedback I'd give for next time: There's no positives to not letting these things work. Rule of thumb, the completion of a blood gen should count for any "when a generator is completed, X" tool. Even Deadlock- just only have it target real generators, and we're golden.
I also think that the blood stations can be a bit hard to find sometimes, and I think that would've been the perfect thing to put on this event's offering, since it only gives bloodpoints at the moment with no additional effect. Showing the aura of blood stations within a certain radius would be completely appropriate here, I think.
Overall though I like these blood gens. The animations are satisfying, the gameplay is interesting, and I've been enjoying interacting with them on both sides. They'd probably get old if they were in every trial, so probably for the best to restrict them to events, but I could see them in events more frequent than just once a year.
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they're ok, but I wish they were more interactive and gave more bloodpoints
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The idea is really cool, I just think they forgot that some Killers really do struggle more without some form of generator control. Not everyone has a mobility power. Plus, not all Killer players are gods and it's often hard to split pressure four ways for certain Killers especially the weak ones. If your weakness is chase, you definitely aren't going to be able to use chase as pressure as well as Blight or something.
It's fine to disallow these perks to work on blood gens for now. But if these gens come to the main game, either some Killers need serious buffs to basic gen regression, the gens have to be significantly slowed down, or certain perks must be changed to work on ALL gens. At the very least certain blocking and kicking perks should work; not every Killer is good at map pressure after all. Right now they just feel like a hard nerf to non mobile Killers and a nuisance to stronger Killers. And these gens should absolutely not be affecting perks like Fire Up, Coup de Grace, Unforeseen, and Blast Mine this way, those perks should be usable with these gens. Otherwise the meta becomes only chase, aura, and hexes/boons, and that becomes boring IMHO.
I also think they need to have five pistons. 2.5 jerrycans is clearly too quick, and leads to an unfun Killer meta for everyone of "just run strong sweaty Killers or Killers that make you hold things". That becomes quite boring quite fast. It's kinda insane that we also have nothing for Killers to interact with involving the blood pumps, I just don't understand why Killers didn't get the option to interact with those and must content themselves with kicking the jerry cans if they're dropped. That doesn't really provide any benefit when Survivors can so easily grab and fill a new jerry can anyway, and only serves to waste more Killer time.
It may not be intended as a Killer nerf, but it really feels like a Killer nerf, and no - it's not all just based around gen perks not working, it's just that the blood gens are frankly too easy to complete and too fast. That means they are low risk high reward. The idea is sound. But they badly need tweaking to be better and fairer to both sides, here. I expect some growing pains as they become more balanced over time.1 -
Interruption. Is. Not. Functionally. Regression. It's much more just your normal, bog-standard "Survivor is not on generator" pressure.
It's not "people do not understand", it's that you aren't understanding, in this case. Chasing someone with a can is lost potential progress, but so is chasing someone off a normal generator. You're trying to overstate the importance of how it means there's a waste of invested time, but then you're immediately factoring out:
- Survivor time on blood gens is much lower, so every second that isn't interrupted is many seconds of gen time.
- Blood gens have lower charges to completion anyway.
- Chasing someone off a gen midway is therefore more interrupting them after they've already been on it for anything up to 30-35s. Gen progress doesn't go back.
- Chasing someone before they get to a gen is like denying them 30s on a gen.
Delivering it in lump sums only partially overlaps with "more work needed", and really decreases the value of time-spent-not-on-gens, so it reduces pressure overall. It doesn't play the role dedicated regression does in extending the minimum time needed, it's playing the role of keeping survivors off generators… which is generally weaker, and also means chasing them off gens is still chasing them off gens..
And this one:
- Survivors are incentivized to move slowly/stealthily and traverse the map, which slows down progress and gives killers the opportunity to prevent gen progress from being deposited.
It also makes it much less likely that anyone's going to be interrupted to deny progress and makes finding people unsurprisingly a lot harder, because you only get to see where the gens are. So it slows down chasing anyone, too, because it's like you have to find the people sneaking around doing dull totems or chests instead of objectives.
Then it gets deposited quickly because everyone realised to bring walking speed perks or just gun it and spend more time filling up anyway, and it goes by even faster. Bit awkward.
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Interruption. Is. Not. Functionally. Regression.
So, let me see if I can explain my reasoning better here.
I'm considering this broadly, and at a minimum, the entire mechanic is "killers are rewarded with additional slowdown for chasing the survivors carrying blood cans".
You even agree with this.
So arguing that it's not "strictly regression" is just semantics. I'm using regression loosely to mean (and you get this): "taking effort or progress survivors have put toward their objective and either undoing it completely, or otherwise rendering that effort meaningless".
That's exactly what blood drain is. I even compare it to potential energy, where a nearly identical mechanic of "carrying gen progress to another location" is undone by hitting them. It's just undone in one instant instead of over time. But it still means that the survivors time was wasted.
The entire premise is that going to a blood station, and deliberately trying to be stealthy by moving slowly is serving the exact same role as a progress bar: it's an otherwise time waste. Undoing the effort there is equivalent to removing that progress, which is why I use the term "regression".
Your other points, that you numbered, are irrelevant to that. You're taking about whether it's balanced perfectly, not whether it counts as objective progress. I even mention very explicitly that blood gens are generally too close to the stations in my post. I'm not looking at if this is entirely balanced in it's current form, since it's a limited time mode (intended to not be perfect) and time is the easiest thing for them to tweak if they iterate on this is idea.
it slows down chasing anyone, too, because it's like you have to find the people sneaking around doing dull totems or chests instead of objectives.
This is possibly the worst thing you could've complained about, and I can't take this seriously.
Killers have something like 50+ aura reading perks, abilities, and add-ons now. Not counting things like killer instinct.
This event literally tells you "your slowdown perks don't apply to over half the gens", so maybe instead of running 4 slowdowns you have room for aura reading. Distortion was nerfed specifically and exactly for this reason: survivors aren't invisible if they aren't also being chased.
Complaining about "not being able to find survivors" is beyond laughable. You haven't even stopped to consider solving this problem with the tools you have available to you.
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Oh, I am running all info, but I do find that to be a silly solution (honestly, I'd rather run chase builds or something, but then there's no reliable where-is-anybody, which is kind of my point – needing info more than anything else to have some idea of where people might be. Maybe if the pumps also had visible auras?
Anyway, I'm just saying, IMO it's more like normal pressure than regression, because once you call this regression, keeping people off normal gens is also regression because it wastes time (the in-between parts where the Survivor is moving, specifically). The time investment in the objective either end isn't significant enough for disrupting that to be that much wasted progress.
You might as well call "Survivor can't find generator" to be regression.
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