Ghoul is unbalanced.

I mean, yeah, the point is that it's easy to get the first hit, since his power is nonlethal. Some of the hits can be a little questionable at times, though.

First hit's supposed to be easy like Legion. It also needs to be very forgiving to land for console.

Theres no need to act so surprised. Every time bhvr releases a killer they always end up adjusting it and fixing its bugs later on. The feedback from the ptb isn't nearly as accurate because the pool of players that can give feedback is much smaller compared to when new content is released to everyone. Theres no need to worry about it, they'll get to it (eventually)

I think he should get small nerfs, but nothing really major.

• window between his powers need to be smaller
• decrease hitbox on tentacle hit
• maybe slightly reduce movement speed after canceling his power
• fix hits though walls

idk, I don't share the sentiment. It's hitscan, and it has an indicator when it's going to land. I feel like even if it was 1:1 with the survivor pill box (which is already generous in comparison to most games) it'd still be easy enough to land on controller. Far easier than any other killer power in the game.

the problem is with the 2nd hit the marker is false as they slide past it anyways to their actual location, it's misleading if anything as it is rn.

No cares about Skull Metchant, just because now Kaneki fates is under being deadly nerfed, or live as long as possible in the niciest state (People just can't come to an agreement between). I dont say he dont needed changes, i say he dosent deserved nerfs to his power the way he playing, just because devs made him OP after ptb just by putting one stongest addon into basekit by "mains" calls. Remove or reduce slide, and this killer would be ok/

Thats the same thing i see. I only see Ghoul Players. This Killer is buggy, has way to long dashes, nearly no Cooldowns, and has a hitbox from 500 miles for Survivors. This is no fun anymore, if you cant use any tactics or skill, if this killer hits. every. single. attack.

I've played as, and against The Ghoul quite a bit (currently prestige 11 as them)

So, here's how I would change The Ghoul to make them fun and balanced to play against, while keeping the quality that make them fun, which is the mobility. Some of, if not most of these suggestions are from other people on this forum.

1. Increase the Kagune Leap cooldown.

2. Decrease the time the Kagune Mark's cooldown will last on a survivor after they mend. Therefore, less Enraged Mode time.

3 Decrease the range the Kagune Leap can grab survivors.

4. Make the sound cue when The Ghoul cancels their Kagune Dash louder. Pretty much like what they did with Xenomorph's Tail Strike audio cue. You can hear when they cancel Kagune Leap if you listen close, but it's too quiet the way it is right now.

5. Definitely rework the Yamori's Mask and Rize's glasses add-ons.

He can down you with his power at a pallet, though.

My conclusion is that it is always a challenge playing when a new killer is released because almost every match features that killer.

Honestly, I think he is a little unfair. I mean sure his power attack isn't lethal, but if you're fully healthy, you are supposed to be able to withstand 2 hits anyways so essentially playing against Ghoulboy means you only have 1 health state and unlike Legion, he can literally traverse the entire map within half a second. And don't get me started on the diabolical hit detection his power has, I would be fine with his power taking one health state away from me, but this ######### just makes it feel so unfair and unfun, because most of the power hits I've taken, were literally either a mile away from me or through a wall.... Not sure if this was intended or not but it's extremely frustrating and it literally just feels like I couldn't have done anything to counter his power attack. And also there is the fact that currently 90% of killers are playing him. He can be fun to loop, but literally almost every single god damn game I played in the last 2 days was against this killer and he's really just starting to annoy me...

I've never been happier to verse a Chucky in my life.

T he hit detection is hitscan

Personally, I find people have not adapted to The Ghoul(Kaneki). I can prolong chases usually. Depending on how much objects(clutter) is in a map. When he dashes, I find anything to put in-between him and I. If I noticed he overshot a bit I'll even change directions, running the opposite way. All this does help to gain those extra seconds. Which can make the difference assuming your team is doing gens.

I do agree and dislike how the attacks are unavoidable. Even with other Killers, you are usually able to counter via crouching or simply putting something between you and the Killer(i.e. Gunslinger). I would like to see a feature that enables you to either crouch to avoid the grappling-dash attack. This would lead to mind games for both sides. If a Survivor crouched the whole time they give up distance and if the killer just spams his abilities then you'll be countered. It should be viable to crouch in order to avoid being hit at any distance. Making the use of the Ghouls powers more skill and timing based.

The fact that he can also dash half way across most maps with ease. Makes healing and safe unhooks near impossible. This killer genuinely punishes unhooking. You have to wait for him to be in chase cause if he's just roaming most players will immediately dash back to hook.

Personally the dashing across maps is bearable, it simply forces survivors to be smart with unhook timing. Although pair dashing across the map with aura builds. It's GG 99% of the time.

My biggest pet peeve in this era of DBD is how bad aura builds have gotten. Killers no longer want to use their braincells. God forbid you actually have to play a bit of a detective game or chess to find the Survivors. Why actually try when you can just have some Meta-Aura build basically show you the Survivors every time you hook or kick a gen or down a survivor… It's the single worst crutch Killers have and it is also ruining the game.

Say what you want about DS or OTR… I'll probably agree and if you want to bash on Survivor aura reading. I'll fully agree. It's why the only aura reading perk I use on occasion is Bond. Since I'm a solo player but if removing all aura perks meant bye bye bond. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

The issue with these killers half the time is not that they are "unbalanced" usually but it's the fact that the perks/builds that complement these Killers can result in deadly combinations. The Ghoul is possible to loop but it's actually a refreshing experience because you can't loop Kaneki the normal way. You actually have to mind game and play some chess. Which is refreshing compared to Knight puts down pawn, run away from loop. Artist puts crow in front of pallet run away from loop. Kaneki actually is the first killer in a long time that has given me that adrenaline rush I first felt playing dbd for the first time. He's by far not perfect but honestly I think it has more to do with the over abundance of perks.

My two cents, BHVR needs to scrap perks entirely. Go with the class system we had in 2v8. It puts everything on the same playing field. Get rid of aura reading; get back to the roots of DBD being a horror hide' n seek game(anyone you says it never was is lying). DBD used to be a genuine terror to play that enabled stealth or aggressive playstyles. This obliteration of stealth has led to players forced to be aggressive which means more chases… Becoming desensitised to killers and that horror vibe much sooner.

I love perks but this is just getting out of hand. Having a class system is easier to manage/balance. It also enables BHVR to focus more on making a balanced killer over worrying about how they'll interact with the ridiculous amounts of perks they got.

If the majority of the survivors in your games are slugged at 4 gens that’s a skill issue, not a balance one. Personally I win the majority of my survivor games..and that’s solo queue. If I went in with my swf It’s a slaughter. Bhvr kill stats are also nearly worthless as measuring balance through kills is extremely flawed for a multitude of reasons. As a final note balancing for the top 20% doesn’t hurt the lowers as much as you think it does given we have an mmr system. Essentially you’d lose a few more games, have your mmr adjusted, and then you’d be back winning/losing the exact same amount of games with the only thing changed being your invisible mmr. If we didn’t have an mmr system and it was just a party game I’d agree with you on that topic.

WHY we win or lose is significantly more important than IF we win or lose. In other words I care a lot more about losing a smaller amount of games because of balance issues, than I doing losing a much larger amount of games due to me or my team playing bad. Meaning even if you lose more survivor games than killer, but it’s because you or your team played bad, then that higher number doesn’t really matter because it’s a skill issue. The losses that really matter are the ones that were because of balance issues.

"I agree, skill is a factor but if you win most of your solo queue matches you are playing at higher mmr. This means you have more competent teammates on average and we all know high mmr is Survivor sided."

Right but the thing is I didn't magically get there. I played through that low mmr to get there. Meaning if you are actually playing well yourself then you will end up with better teammates as well eventually. IE good players are not getting held back by bad teammates. If they are constantly losing from bad teammates at lower mmr then they are probably bad themselves and don't want to take ownership of that. Being a good player at lower mmr will eventually get people out of low mmr. If they aren't then they themselves aren't as good as they think they are.

"Your experience does not appropriately reflect the majority of players. That said, mmr also isn't always black and white. Meaning you can be low mmr and end up in a mid mmr match. This can happen in higher mid-mmr areas where you unintendedly end up in higher mmr games. Those skill issue players, often might of just been pulled higher up the ladder then they are ready for. It's not their fault it's just mmr compensating for a lack of players and faster queue times."

This is true, mmr does throw you into less accurate matches occasionally however in general in does keep accuracy. Also, this mismatching you're talking about happens even now, so what you're describing wouldn't be an affect from what I'm referencing, it happens no matter what already, meaning I don't think it's necessarily a counter argument.

"When you punish the top percentile of any game it has more than a "little" impact on the majority usually. I've seen this first hand in other games, such as PoE. In Path of Exile they nerfed loot and attempted to make the game slower to combat the top players/groups. It made the game masochistically borderline unbearable. The main excuse to defend this was, "oh you aren't masochistic enough for PoE…" As if it was a prideful thing to play an unrewarding gameplay loop. It's toxic."

I agree this is a fair point, however I think there's some nuance. I think you can balance to not have a completely busted top 20% clown fiesta without hurting the lower people. I don't think it's just one or the other. Also, as mentioned before, per mmr I don't think it would affect lower mmr people as much as you think. This is where I think PoE isn't a good example because that's against bot mobs, not other players, not really comparable. No MMR basically. MMR existing is what makes my point more valid essentially.

"DBD is getting smaller maps, faster killers, anti-looping and stealth is practically eradicated. I personally would not have an issue with all these changes, if meta perks were not a thing on both sides. It's one thing to quote "skill" and another thing to have a ghoul or blight… zoom across the map because of a brain-dead aura build. I think people would have far less issues with killers and even anti-loop killers if perks like NOED or aura reading perks in general were not a thing. That goes for Survivors not having DS or OTR and aura reading as well. At some point when you say oh it's a skill issue you completely gaslight and ignore the core issue."

Anti-looping and stealth eradicated? I 100% disagree, people do them fine. Most maps have been way too large for a very long time. Large maps encourage hold w game play which is unhealthy and boring. We want to force interaction. Most aura perks have clear base kit counters without even running perks, just simply game knowledge. I would always rather a killer run aura than more gen regression. I agree with NOED, it's a very unhealthy, no skill perk. Are we going to balance the entire game around ghoul and blight? That seems silly. The vast majority of the killer roster does not fit the criteria you're talking about. I don't think this is gaslighting or ignoring core issues at all, it's generally lack of accountability of people playing bad and making excuses instead. What you think are core issues I do not think are core issues. The only people generally complaining about aura perks are newer players that don't understand the game well, not the majority of the player base. I'd rather nerf some of the outlier killers than punish the entire killer roster.

"The fact of the matter is, I've talked with others and the 2v8 class system was genuinely loved by many and it's not to say we all don't love perks and the ability to have that diversity. Although, when you look at the majority of complaints… they all revolve around "perks". Hence, I genuinely believe "The Ghoul" would not be as negatively looked at if we had a more balanced perks system. It'd be easier to balance and the devs would have an easier time focusing on a proper killer mechanic over worrying about how is this killer + these perks going to hopefully not break the game. Cause dash distance etc… can easily be tweaked. Balancing hundreds of perk combinations is practically impossible. "

I mean I do agree the game has a perk issue. The vast majority of perks are terrible and many of the ones that are good are plaster fixes for core game issues that should be resolved at base than relying on us to do it with the perks.

Btw thank you for the cordial responses. Many people on the forums cannot disagree without becoming condescending or emotional.

No worries man, we may disagree on stuff but at the end of the day it's a difference of opinion and not the end of the world.

You make fair points that PoE is not the best comparison to DBD. I do agree it's possible to balance the top percentile without hurting lower mmr players. Unfortunately I think that is tougher for Devs to do than we realise. Top end players will always find a new meta no matter what. I've seen those videos of SWF burning through a match in less than a couple minutes. So I get it.

As for the bad survivors not taking accountability… I fully agree that this has a part to play but the mmr shifting stuff varies. I mean we can't be certain how often it occurs and it varies depending on time of day and how populated your region is. It's speculative really from both our ends but I'm aware it does happen I wont say how often it does though because I have zero clue. Although it just feels like I'll often see at least one baby survivor every odd match.

I don't play competitively anymore. I'm also a returning player. I first played DBD a little before Legion released I believe he was my first purchase. I left shortly after that though(killer main mostly). When I returned recently mid 2024 maybe, I tried survivor side and had fun with it, so I stuck with it. I'm by far not top tier skill lol but I've played in high mmr which is why I felt comfortable saying that there is a clear difference in higher mmr. You genuinely feel the consistency of having competent players in your team.

These days I play casually. I can still generally hold 30-60 second chases; sometimes more depending on the killer really. I'm by far not the most skilled but I've noticed wherever I am on the proverbial mmr latter. I notice a wide mix of players match to match. One moment everyone is doing gens and we escape do well. The next match, nobody wants to do gens and a teammate is going down in sub 20 seconds. I do my gens and do my best to take chase when I can but sometimes the Killer will ignore me after my first chase. I've had killers tell me I was good at looping but I mean maybe it's a skill issue on their end for not seeing I was only average at best lmao it's hard to gauge that stuff lmao.

As for individual skill, I agree eventually you should get to higher mmr if you have the skill for it. Although that's not always the case. It's not so black and white really. When you have players that sometimes don't do gens at all or they kill themselves on hook. Survivors abandoning the game or straight up dying early in chase. Solo queue is the reason I play casually.

For aura builds, I will admit that if the killer is not running aura then stealth is still a viable thing and I was being overdramatic with the word "eradicated" lol. I'm not the biggest fan of regression builds not cause I think they are overpowered but they just remind me of legion matches. It's sluggish and boring. For me, the aura stuff is become more of a crutch these days rather than a genuine little information perk. I'd probably be more accepting of aura perks if it was a one aura perk per build kind of limit situation. Just currently even distortion is pointless most of the time. Especially when we all spawn together now and that basically defeats the point of distortion hiding you when the killer knows you spawn together and he sees three auras instead of four… it's not hard to deduce the fourth has distortion lol. Although that basically just eliminates 1 token and the other usually gets used up shortly after.

I'm not a fan the idea of running a perk because it counters said build. I've heard this from killers… oh just run distortion. So I do and the next match I get is a non-aura build and now I got a pointless perk that does nothing the whole match but that can happen with other perks. I also don't like the concept of being force to play a perk because it's "mandatory" to counter said build. I was told to run DS or OTR (no joke) if I don't like their build. So I did and then I got called out for using meta perks lol. I see time and time again killers use meta perks or specific perks that counter a certain build… as an excuse for justifying the build but then when you run those perks the hypocrisy that occurs is ridiculous. So much so that I've genuinely grown tired of the blatant abuse of aura reading and the lack of countereability on both sides. I genuinely believe that the game would be better off and more enjoyable if we removed aura. Not built in aura like scratch mirror Myers... I just mean the perks. Scratch mirror can be nerfed or buffed in accordance with how things are going.

Don't get me wrong I love the perk diversity but it's getting out of hand. I truly believe (my opinion) that Killers such as the Ghoul would not have such negative backlash if it wasn't for the accompanying perks/builds. Having a kaneki dash across the map to your location but doesn't know where you are exactly is terrifying but in a fun way. Having the same killer dash across the map knowing your exact location is frustrating because it eliminates that thrill. The killer taking those few extra seconds to find you is that added tension that just makes chases so much more thrilling. Instead of just having the killer zoom to your location and preemptively attack you around a wall because they know your "exact" location when you were trying to be stealthy.

I simply(my opinion) find aura perks to generally be unhealthy for the game on both sides. I've played plenty of them. Made my own builds and I know how powerful aura reading can be on Survivor side even. It's why I take such a firm stance on the idea that aura perks have gotten out of hand. They should either be limited to one per build or just remove them from the game entirely. Most will probably end up using regression builds but that just furthers my point on a class based system like 2v8. Easier to maintain/balance. Also the class system resulted in more teamwork in my opinion. From rebuilding pallets to engineers giving gen locations and healers… Scouts could be altered to not have aura but all in all like I said it's a subtle aura reading thing like the gen kicking in 2v8 I'm chill with that pretty much. I didn't hear a single complaint about 2v8 class system sucks. Heard how 2 killers can be overpowered or too many survivors or too little survivors but no complaints on the class system. I think BHVR should give it a go and create two modes… see how popular it would be and if the demand is there for it. They already have it set up basically. They just need to tweak a few numbers from 2 to 1 and 8 to 4 and vuala!

"I still don't understand how you think aura perks are so strong. I can't even remember the last time I saw a killer run even 2 at a time, most aren't running that many. Good survivors don't care if you find them, most even run up to clicky clicky at you for chase. Finding survivors isn't the hard part of dbd, time management and loops are."

You're dead wrong, soooooo many killers complained about not finding survivors who hide well… why u think they nerfed distortion? lol…you're dreaming with that statement.
BBQ, friends til the end, plus pink addon on Kaneki, lethal pursuer…shall i go on?

Wrong again…u guys want buffs for killers exclusively for swf…and that's 3% of your matches, the rest is solo Q who struggle IMMENSELY. Look at the killer streamers win streaks… come on guys be realistic. On top of all of that, you get Ghoul… how much more crutches do killers need to decimate even further survs?

"Wrong again…u guys want buffs for killers exclusively for swf…and that's 3% of your matches,"

If you seriously believe that's only 3% of matches I suggest you watch my streams. You are far from the truth.

" the rest is solo Q who struggle IMMENSELY"

They aren't. The game is balanced around solo queue. I do solo queue survivor mostly and I win the majority of my games.

"On top of all of that, you get Ghoul… how much more crutches do killers need to decimate even further survs?"

It's a killer that just came out, relax. An adjustment patch comes soon after release.