http://dbd.game/killswitch
The ghoul isnt even that good
honestly, he was just fine if not even weak on the ptb, but when hes released to the public and then nerfed again somehow hes still to op?
Ive played with him and his own power is contradictory, a high mobility killer that still relies on m1 attacks to get downs.
Hes just a worse legion. In all of my chases if someone can avoid LOS depending on the surrounding I literally cant get them, of course this doesnt apply to all structures, but adjusting playstyle is a fundamental rule for all killers. A general tip is dont loop long loops while healthy if kaneki is enraged.
and whats worse is after the special attack hes literally just a m1 killer, at least legion has the chance to get a down with his power. Kaneki can use his tentacles to attack a injured survivior but it wont do anything other than give a speed boost,
Additonally using your tentacles to glide seems like a good idea (and i admit i did that until high mmr) survivors just begin going to opposite way. What sucks about this is that if survivors just look at you, its pretty easy to tell where youll be gliding to, and they have free roam to exploit this. The only exception to this rule is when kaneki is enraged. In this state you get a additonal tentacle swing but even then it takes TREMEDOUS skill to out predict a survivor who can see your movements. The most optimal thing to do is just glide by them, which if your unaware is about the same time as just chasing regularly.
if you need tips on how to loop him, avoid long loops and use short loops that block LOS and if you get hit go back to the long loops
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He can still bodyblock but that's honestly ridiculously clunky, kinda feels similar to old twins due to "I know he can be strong but I can't stand playing him" feeling
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In fact, the nerf to Kaneki in 8.7.0 has been criticized quite heavily outside of this forum. (Reddit is probably the most vocal in its criticism.)
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Really? Where exactly? I have my doubts it's the majority of players complaining about the nerfs consdering how many people still complained about Kaneki being too strong before the nerf.
I think Kaneki is now in a fairly decent spot, if anything he is still a tad too strong. I fail to see how the nerfs were too much in any capacity. And I have been playing him almost non stop since the nerf. Survivors having some actual counterplay is a good and healthy thing for the game.
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There are some reddit posts bemoaning that they can no longer break pallets and immediately catch up to survivors, but the support to buff ghoul again is not nearly as big as that post claims.
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In my opinion Kaneki is pretty much in a perfect state now. If anything he might need one more tiny nerf and that's it. He is still very strong, but actually pretty balanced now.
Kaneki is still incredibly good at getting injuries. On top of that, he easily has some of the best mobiltiy of any killer in the game. I also fail to see how he is just an M1 killer after injuring survivors. Sure he can't down with his M2, but he can still catch up to survivors incredibly well with his power, just not as oppressively any more thanks to the cooldown nerf after he breaks pallets.
Sure, survivors can go the other way when you try to catch up to them with your power, but you as a killer can also predict that. It's not bad when survivors have some form of counterplay anyways. Not to mention you are most likely cutting them off from where they wanted to run to, potentially making them run to an unsafer spot, or even a deadzone in some cases.
I think the last 2 nerfs Kaneki received were perfect, and he is now in a pretty good spot.
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Perverting the text is the lowest form of argumentation. I posted my opinion that there was strong criticism on reddit for this nerf, but I never posted that there was a desire for it to be enhanced.
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Yeah that's what I thought. It's probably mainly just people who played a lot of Kaneki and have to get used to the nerfs and him being actually fairly balanced now. That or biased killer mains that play very little survivor.
But in my opinion it's a fantastic thing that Kaneki now loses 2 tokens on pallet breaks, it gives him more counterplay, which he needed.
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I don't know why you don't check reddit yourself and only believe the information that is convenient for you.
As for the Kaneki nerf, it is one of the topics of this update, and it is difficult to name a representative one. (Obviously, there are some topics that are strongly critical of the nerf, but since they seem to be posted by killer mains, they would not be appropriate as representative examples.)
Above all, it is possible that I saw many of those opinions due to my cognitive bias, so it would be fairest to see for myself.
However, not only is there a lot of criticism of the nerf, but also a lot of negative feedback on the advocacy for the nerf, and a lot of positive feedback on the criticism for the nerf. At least, from my point of view.-1 -
Im sorry but a lot of that is just not true.
Yeah, he can't hit you with his power to get the down, but he still has his power. He can still use it to catch up, he can slide cancel to get the advantage of high mobility without the attack cooldown. He can also still use it to lock the Survivor in place and vault extremely fast on pretty much any dropped pallet or window.
And he is not a worse legion, he has arguably the best mobility ability in the game giving him fast but unrestrained mobility with a relatively short Cooldown.
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I have checked reddit myself. I have only seen one post so far that was complaining about the nerf where Kaneki loses 2 tokens instead of one, and it didn't even have that many likes, especially for a subreddit that is known to have a lot of killer mains in addition to people who are survivors mains or play both sides.
I am not saying I am right, but i just have a hard time believeing the majority of people dislike the nerfs Kaneki received considering just before the nerfs there were still a lot of people unhappy with how strong Kaneki was.
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I wouldn't say he can lock survivors in place when vaulting a pallet, his hindered has been nerfed and his pallet vaulting seems much fairer now. But in general I agree, he is still a very strong killer and definitely better than Legion.
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I'm actually 99% happy with how BHVR have been dealing with Kaneki as a Ghoul main. Giving his power a cooldown on breaking pallets is absolutely the most fair way to nerf him for both sides, compared to messing with his cooldown fatigue (which would ruin his potential for skillful plays) or messing with his enraged vault (which would make him a weaker version of Wesker.)
The one and only thing that I dislike about BHVR's changes to Ghoul is the two meter range nerf. I don't believe his mobility needed a nerf holistically, I think it would've been just fine to nerf the survivor grab range by those two meters instead and leave the dash range alone. But aside from that, the character is seriously well-balanced in my opinion.
I'm actually proud of BHVR for their…well, behavior in adjusting Ghoul. They've been infamous for "gutting" characters and have taken a lot of flak for it historically, and their treatment of Ghoul shows that they are not only willing, but trying to change for the better. Again, I just wish the two meter range nerf didn't happen but the character is still a total blast to play and it doesn't feel like I'm handicapping myself by picking him.
The only alternatives to giving his power an artificial cooldown on pallet break, would absolutely ruin the character. Nerfing the enraged vault should not happen because Wesker would be better in every way. (The reason why Wesker has a slower vault is because he can M2 you. Kaneki cannot.) Nerfing the power cancel fatigue would also ruin the character because he would be heavily disincentivized to ever use the power during a loop which is the fun part of playing Killer. They don't want his power to just be "I move around the map lol." Swinging around obstacles with the power and cancelling it at JUST the right time is what makes the killer who he is. You CANNOT nerf these aspects of him without ruining him.
So their solution (and it IS a great solution) is to give a forced cooldown when you break a pallet, which makes 100% perfect sense and is fair for both sides without ruining the killer.
Honestly I would like to see the forced cooldown thing on more killers and compensate them with buffs. Take one token away from Wesker when he breaks a pallet but give him more range on both dashes. Take both tokens away from Nurse. Take 2 tokens from Blight and let him dash faster. Give Kaneki his two meters back.
It's a REALLY good way to nerf a killer while keeping what makes them strong, strong.
Post edited by Leon_Loves_Cheryl on0 -
If you mess with the attack cooldown, you will end up with a worse Legion.
He would also feel very slow and clunky because he is foundationally not designed to just stare at you for several seconds while cancelling power. The cancel fatigue is balanced around whether or not he was able to outmaneuver you. 9 times out of 10, if he failed to outmaneuver you, you will still reach the pallet. That's the point of the fatigue and it correctly does its job. It doesn't need to be raised higher.
The concession they made to deal with the "break pallet then jump and instadown" problem (which absolutely was a problem) was by adding an artificial cooldown to his power when he breaks pallets. It was a genius way to balance the killer without touching the fatigue.
Post edited by Leon_Loves_Cheryl on-1 -
The reason why he's an M1 killer is because his power only provides mobility. Yes he can chase you and down you, but only if you're out in the open without anything nearby to use, such as a pallet or window. It makes perfect sense that Kaneki can down you in situations like this because ranged killers and other dash killers like Wesker can achieve the same result in the same area. Kaneki is unique because he can potentially swing around obstacles, raising his skillcap tremendously without being as unfair to play against as Nurse going through obstacles. In other words, he still has to EARN the down on you, he just does it in a unique way, and he's still heavily countered by pallets and windows, making him an M1 killer.
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