A Potentially Healthy Way To Limit Slowdown
Now, if you're the type that reads that title and reflexively starts disagreeing, hear me out. I think this would work out to be better for killers overall than the current setup, where slowdown continually gets nerfed because people can stack it for overwhelming advantages whenever the individual perks are too good.
And, on the flipside, it sucks as survivor to go against quad slowdown even when it's not super oppressive, it's just an annoying type of perk to see that much of. Everyone could potentially benefit from limiting how many slowdown perks a killer uses on average.
With that in mind, here's my pitch:
- Generators that are currently regressing cannot be damaged by generator explosions or blocked by the entity.
This sounds like a bigger deal than it actually would be in practice, so let me break it down.
Generators that are currently regressing already cannot be kicked, and this is a logical extension of that, but more importantly than that a generator won't be regressing unless you did something to regress it. To my knowledge, even a survivor failing a skill check and immediately letting go of the gen doesn't start a generator regressing, meaning the killer has complete control over when this new feature would actually affect them.
If all you're bringing is any number of gen-block perks, all you need to do is not kick gens that you think are gonna be blocked before the perk affects them.
If all you're bringing is some direct-explosion perks, ditto, and also probably don't bring that many or they'll start to conflict with one another.
This should, as far as I see, only affect the killer if they bring multiple perks of the same archetype, which is exactly what we're aiming for here.
The reason I say this should work out better for killers is because it allows for much safer buffs to slowdown in healthy ways. For instance, if the devs were to introduce this change at the same time they, say, raised basekit regression speed from 1/4th survivor speed to 1/3rd survivor speed, that'd directly buff gen kicks healthily as you need to keep survivors off the gen for the regression to add up, which is typically healthier gameplay, and it'd also be an indirect buff to perks like Ruin or Oppression.
At the same time, certain perks can be slightly buffed, like Surge or Pop, because they're very unlikely to be used alongside other slowdown tools.
All in all, I think it'd make for a healthier baseline than what we have now. I ask you to consider it carefully first, but I am curious: What do you think?
Comments
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Honestly with this approach the 8 regression limit could probably be reviewed. I like this idea, encourages game flow.
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I'm not sure I'm seeing the connection here, mind elaborating?
Why would this change prompt the regression limit to be reviewed?
-3 -
Because it would stop regression stacking from being as effective, sure it'd go to the next available gen, but limits may not be needed since gen progression won't be bursting down as the killer snowballs potentially.
I'm not sure how accurate my claim is but your proposal sounds good! LOL0 -
you'd have to buff the base regression to 400% to make this fair in any way and get rid of gen kick limit
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Hard disagree.
You don't have to do anything to make this fair, strictly speaking. It's already totally fair for any killer to only be bringing one of these perks right now, pushing players to make that choice wouldn't break the game or anything.
I just think it'd be positive to also think about buffing base regression a little to bolster that fact. It's not a necessary part of the change or anything.
-3 -
I think the regression limit should be removed, and regressed progress should be recovered while repairing at like 100% additional speed. In other words, survivors should be able to repair back to where the gen was at double speed, but at the normal speed after that progress is returned
-2 -
Surge would be so much worse, that‘s why I don’t like it.
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I'm not so sure that it would.
The generator would have to already be regressing when you get the down for Surge to be worse, which you'd have to do yourself— and if you're the one running Surge, you'd just… not do that.
-8 -
When I down survivors twice or more times next to a generator it doesn‘t give me anything.
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That's a fair point, that'd be an edge case worth considering.
I already would've considered Surge a perk that could be safely buffed if this change happened anyway, so that's a safe way forward.
-5 -
Well I would have to see how much it gets buffed to be open for this change. Aside from surge I would support this change.
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your not really recognizing the problem which is gen speeds if gen speeds were nerfed to where m1 killer is viable i'd be fine with dumpstering all gen regression
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I disagree that gen speeds are a problem, but for the record, this change is very explicitly not dumpstering gen regression. Most gen regression/slowdown perks aren't even affected by this on their own.
This is what I was asking people to consider carefully before responding, it's not actually a direct nerf in a lot of real-match scenarios unless you're specifically stacking a bunch of slowdown.
-4 -
I agree you don‘t need more than one regression perk. Stacking them is overkill. I just hope behavior finally buffs all the underwhelming regression perks.
-2 -
NO. DEFINITELY NOT. If you did this gen regression would have to be quadrupled. It would be better if they just doubled base regression and nerfed slowdown across the board.
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What makes you say that, any particular reason you think this'd be too hard of a hit?
-1 -
This would be a horrible change. It would harshly nerf almost every single regression and block perk and make some borderline unusable because they have a decent chance to just not do anything when they are triggered.
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Again, not on their own.
The only perks I could see that might be nerfed on their own are Surge (in an edge case that someone mentioned above) and, amusingly, Eruption, which seems to be a perk that will always get the short end of the stick.
For the other perks, though, how are they being nerfed? What makes them have a chance to not do anything?
-1 -
Other perks negatively affected even if used on their own:
- No Holds Barred doesn't work if the gen with the most progress is regressing
- Dead Mans Switch doesn't work if the gen they let go of is regressing
- Pain Res doesn't work if the gen with the most progress is regressing
- Thrilling Thremors now doesn't block regressing gens
- Grim Ebrance doesn't work on gens you kicked
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For all of those perks, I have one question, and it's not fully rhetorical- I am interested in exploring the answer. The question is this:
Why is that gen regressing?
-1 -
1,2,4,5 you kicked it.
3 you kicked it or hit it with a previous pain res
Yeah, you could not kick the gen, but then you would limit yourself so that your own perks work.
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Limiting yourself to lean into the perks is kind of the point. The point of the change is to make stacking slowdown less autopilot, and slowdown in general something you use more thoughtfully and sparingly.
So, yeah, you wouldn't kick the gen. The whole point of these perks is that they're supposed to provide more than kicking the gen. Those that don't right now can be safely buffed if they're much less likely to be used in concert with one another.
That's also why I suggested buffing basekit kicks, so that kicks are seen as enough without perks as well. The tradeoff would be very simple to apply regression without perks, or stronger regression that you need to manage a bit more with perks.
-2 -
I would agree with this change but only if base regression was increased as you suggested and also only if anti-gen perks were to slightly be buffed, but only SLIGHTLY, previous anti-gen perk buffs have been overhanded which is why eventually they had to implement overhanded nerfs to these perks in the end.
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Have you tried playing killer in high mmr without slowdown? It’s not even a matter of choice, if you want to have a chance at winning you need to stack at least 2 slowdown perks, if it’s a lower tier killer you are forced into quad slowdown, otherwise the gens will fly and you will be left in the dust. It’s annoying for killers too because it’s not even a skill issue, people focus on tunneling and slugging without addressing gen rushing: the reason killers use those tactics!
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I do play killer, and I usually only bring one slowdown, if even that much. If I do ever bring two, it's usually two that wouldn't be affected by this change, IE, something like Gift of Pain and Deadlock, or something.
I don't know if I play at high MMR and neither does anyone else. I do know that basekit slowdown is good enough for 90% of people, though, and for the 10% that might need potent slowdown, that's why I suggested buffing it after stacking it becomes a non-issue (hopefully).
Though, to be clear, that hypothetical 10% that might need very potent slowdown (really heavy emphasis on might) would have it anyway without any extra buffs, via Pain Res or Grim Embrace. Support that with good play and maybe a repair speed penalty perk and you're fine.
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Make gens take like 160 instead and this would maybe be balanced.
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