http://dbd.game/killswitch
A Healthy Solution to Tunneling/Camping/Slugging (A Message to the Devs)
While I am pleased with the QoL initiative BHVR has been pushing for recently, the possible changes to counteract slugging/camping/tunneling are very concerning. If these changes are implemented incorrectly, they will essentially kill the entire killer playerbase and make playing the role miserable.
Instead of punishing killers directly for employing these strategies, developers need to target the root of the issue - the reason why killers camp/slug/tunnel. Killers enact these strategies almost never out of toxicity or spite, but rather because the situation of the game they're in requires it in order for them to have a chance at winning. Even so, there are many perks available to counter these strategies anyways, all of which are popular and are meta.
For instance, someone may be playing an objectively weak or mediocre killer (like pig, cenobite, deathslinger, etc.) while on an unfavorable map (Gideon, Garden of Joy, Eyrie, Badham). As a result, chases will almost always take a long time (even if the killer player is very skilled) while gens are able to be done quickly, especially in a coordinated team. In order to have a chance at winning, it is virtually required for the killer to tunnel and/or proxy. Sometimes, players will be very altruistic and/or have flashlight or sabo builds, forcing the killer to slug. Or perhaps only one gen remains and the killer has no time to carry a survivor to the hook before the gen pops. In any case, there are many situations in which the only way for the killer to have a chance at winning is to enact these strategies. It does not mean they are toxic - it's just the nature of what needs to be done in order to win and complete the objective.
A good solution, in this case, would be to reward killers for not tunneling/camping/slugging. This will simultaneously help resolve the issues and pressure that many killers encounter when faced with unfavorable situations beyond their control. For instance, if a killer decides to spread hooks instead of tunneling the last unhooked survivor, then gen progress should be impaired in some way or another benefit like aura reading should be granted. Same thing should occur if the killer keeps a distance away from a hooked survivor and if they pick up a survivor before a certain timeframe is reached. Of course, if the killer is hard tunneling, slugging, or camping, these rewards should be revoked.
Pain resonance and grim embrace are good examples of perks that encourage hooking and spreading hook stages, as they motivate killers to hook survivors sooner and reward killers for hooking unique survivors, while lessening the consequences of not having a survivor out of the game sooner. Similarly, friends til the end, furtive chase, BBQ, devour hope, no way out, agitation, and forever entwined are other perks that encourage picking up survivors sooner and venturing out from the hook to look for unique survivors.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Moreover, if you really want to get into the thick of it, a reward-based solution to control a behavior is almost always more effective than a punitive one. This is shown consistently by countless studies in behavior psychology, in which positive and negative reinforcement produce more long-lasting changes in behavior, along with minimal negative side effects compared to punishment.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
tl;dr - Developers should not seek to punish killers for camping/tunneling/slugging as it can be abused and oftentimes is needed to win for the situation a killer is in. Additionally, there are already many strong, popular survivor perks to counter these strategies. Instead, a healthier way to deal with this issue is to reward killers for not enacting these strategies. This is well-demonstrated by existing perks that reward hooking unique survivors sooner and venturing out beyond the hook. These rewards should be revoked or not granted if the killer blatantly camps/tunnels/slugs.
Comments
-
It's the progression V regression
1.0-2.2 V .25
So that means 3 Gens can be done in 90-95 seconds
The only thing that would effect that is the skillchecks
Then add in Toolboxes… and that speeds things up further
Then add in perks… and that is both Killer and Survivor perks… so it depends on all situations and occurrences
So if the Killer can get rid of a Survivor early on then only 2 Gens might pop with a third having some progress on it
2 -
People want the game to be more fun and balanced for everybody. We want the game to go in a direction where going for max hooks is rewarded and encouraged.
The concern over the upcoming anti tunneling/camping/slugging changes, while we know they are well intentioned, is that competent survivors in SWF will abuse them to make the game unwinnable for 90%+ of the killer roster. The game will become more obnoxious and frustrating for high MMR killer players. We know there's literally no intent or desire to ever nerf SWF and these concerns are always dismissed away as "who cares if they completely break the game, you never play against them anyways" even though I'd say in my own experience 30 to 40% of my lobbies are full stacked meta with people on comms
2 -
That isn't why people tunnel, we know this.
During the best time period for Killers, directly after 6.1.0, there was still rampant tunneling and camping. This was at the height of Eruption, Overcharge, Call of Brine, PR, Corrupt, DMS etc etc. This was pre addon nerf Blight times.
So why did people still tunnel if they didn't need to?
Because they could and it got results.
There are some matches where you do need to tunnel. These are few and far between. Teams that are genuinely so good that you have no other recourse are exceedingly rare. Most players tunnel because the amount of skill you need to successfully tunnel someone out (and thereby astronomically raise your odds of winning) is far lower than the skill (and coordination) required to prevent a tunnel out.
This is the crux of the issue. Tunneling is too much of a boon for how little skill it takes to pull off.
Tunneling either needs to be less impactful on the match or it needs to be much more difficult to execute.
4 -
Agree with your points. In general I think when people massively down play how many matches are swf at high mmr it's just telling me that they don't play killer at high mmr.
-6 -
Well said, my friend.
Most tunneling is done because it can be done, you will rarely ever come across a situation where you have no choice but to tunnel someone out of the game.
I think the new anti-tunnel features, whatever they are, have the potential of being one of the healthiest changes in a long time.
1 -
Couldn't have said this better. This is the main problem with tunneling, and that while it is a strategy that can be used in certain situations and is even needed in others, there will always be people that go out of their way to employ these strategies just to give themselves more of an advantage.
1 -
So, when the killer tunnels at 5 gens as a top-tier killer they're doing it out of necessity? I find that hard to believe.
3 -
Good to see you friend and thank you for the kind words :)
3 -
You know that's not what he said, at all.
-3 -
Love when all the forum warriors that are just 12 hooking SWFs left and right with Ghostface show up to tell everyone how they don't ever have to tunnel to win their games and killer is the easiest it's ever been. Conveniently they never show their own gameplay though and teach the rest of us how to do it
1 -
Where here do you see that?
Conversely, couldn't you show your own gameplay and all these so called "forum warriors" give advice?0 -
I'm not 12 hooking any SWFs lmao. I play variety killer on console and don't tunnel and I'm lucky if I average close to a 2k vs all the sweats I routinely get matched with.
-2 -
People do not tunnel and camp because of gen speed or lack of regression. They tunnel and camp because it works and they still get the benefit of slow down perks on top. Perks like pain res are way more impactful when you don't spread hooks but instead just make it 3v1 with PR in your pocket.
Also, positive incentives do not work to stop tunneling/camping. The only thing that will dissuade people from doing it, is if it is heavily punished (I'm guessing they will make some version of DS & unbreakable basekit or gens will lose maximum required charges if someone is tunneled out early).
1 -
Convenient to just say so isn't it?
2 -
I highly doubt that would change anything.
I am not going to waste my time playing DBD for days on end just to find a squad that can actually play. Even if I did, I am sure that wouldn't change anyone's mind.
And if I could not find a good team, if I just uploaded some footage of myself eviscerating random players, that would prove nothing.
-1 -
And yet someone who plays a top-tier killer could say something like gens go too fast, so they need to tunnel to win. Is that not "the situation of the game requiring them to tunnel in order to win"?
-1 -
Good to see you too, friend!
0 -
Dude, most people even agree that Ghost Face isn't particularly strong, so that argument is just bad. But most killers are stronger than Ghost Face, the game certainly shouldn't be balanced around killers like Ghost Face, that would make so many other killers op.
But it's 100% true that most people tunnel because it's just extremely easy to do and takes little skill, as opposed to playing normally, inflating their mmr and having them play at a skill level they don't belong to.
Tunneling isn't the instant win strategy every time, but it's way too good for how easy it is to pull off at the moment. Same goes for camping.
Also, killer isn't the easiest it's ever been, definitely not, that was arguably right after the 6.1.0 update, but they are still generally in a good spot.
I can only pray the upcoming anti-camp and anti-tunnel changes will be impactful, weakining those cheap strategies noticeably. If killers end up needing buffs because of that, although I believe they will only need small buffs in that case, since killers are already in a good spot, then BHVR will surely react accordingly.
-1 -
Even though someone "could" say that, is that what he said? You know that's not what he's referring too.
-2 -
Pay attention to this paragraph right here.
Killers enact these strategies almost never out of toxicity or spite, but rather because the situation of the game they're in requires it in order for them to have a chance at winning.
It is exactly what they're referring to. The situation of the game requiring tunneling can be as simple as gens go too fast.
-1 -
And does it anywhere in that statement say top tier killers? When someone mentions a balance problem, unless specifically stated, they are almost never referencing Nurse, Blight, Billy, SWF comp on coms ect. This is just an obvious given. They are referencing the majority, not a minority exception.
This would be like you saying survivors need buffs and then I say, you think a 4 man comp squad on coms needs buffs?! Obviously that wouldn't be what you meant and would be me being disingenuous of what I know you really meant.
1 -
Imagine people still making false claims on tunneling and so on.
-1 -
depends on what the false claims are?
0 -
aura reading doesn't do anything unless you have the mobility or something else to hinder survivors that an m1 doesn't necessarily have but the problem has always been gen speeds and gen regression
0
