http://dbd.game/killswitch
What do YOU think BHVR is going to do to address tunneling?
Comments
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Was that not you? lmao I swear you posted an old steam thing with it. This was like, 3 or 4 years ago.
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Not me, I'm afraid.
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Hooking and slugging are tools. Just like survivors splitting gens is a basekit tool they have to progress the game faster.
And killers have bloodlust, literally free haste for making bad decisions like not breaking pallets.
And I played 4 hours today, got tunnelled at least once per hour, most games I had in one hour was 8 including queue times and bathroom breaks, which means either we did gens in 5-6 minutes on average, or I got tunnelled out 4 games within 3-4 minutes and managed to get 4 normal games.
Other than that, 60% escape rate in general, or 60% escaperate average against all killers? Because there are some killers I have a near 80% escaperate against(Doc is one of them since I main him, so if they dont know niche information that I know, they pretty much never catch me). While against a Nurse, its closer to 47%.
Could also depend on servers, because while it is 140% stereotypical, it did become a stereotype because of how common it is to a point that it did negatively affect some friends of mine to the point that they show themselves on Steam as a different country that uses the same alphabet to avoid negativity. But they always tunnel at 5 gens, slug whenever the possibility of hatch becomes a thing, will effectively always run Grim, Pain Res, Lethal and Pop, just in case survivors dare finish more than 2 generators.90% of the time you get tunnelled, you can bet what language they speak. And the second they face a competent team, you are thrown curses and insults, its never a GG.
That is the state of the dedicated servers I mainly get connected to, which has to be taken into consideration too.4 -
I really don't think there's much you can do about tunnelling except for fundamentally changing the flow and objectives of the game. As it currently stands it's the killer's job to kill survivors and the survivor's job is to escape, one feeds into another. If you kill a survivor early then their chances for escaping are much harder but if all the survivors are still alive at 1 gen then their chances of escaping are much higher. People naturally want to win so tunneling a byproduct of that, whether it's hard tunneling or more tactful tunneling just depends on the player.
The only way you can change it is to reworker the killer's role so it's just purely about the hooks and killing is out of the equation. But that isn't very fun nor exciting. Alternatively you can pile on more basekit perks for survivors, but that isn't very fun either. I do support giving the unhooked survivor no collision as that'll eliminate a lot of annoyances but outside of that there really isn't much you can realistically do without just taking a huge dump on what makes playing killer fun, killing people.
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This has been a BIG problem with a lot of the older killers. There’s no way to solve this without outright reworking many of the killers into something completely different than who they were.
For example: how do you fix Ghostface…? There’s nothing lore-wise (or license-wise that would be acceptable by the license holder) that allows him to traverse the map quickly.
I guess maybe make him another Houndmaster and allow him to do mini stalks through cameras near survivors and while he follows a path to the found survivor, he goes X faster? Idk. But then you also have to solve every other M1 killer, like Myers, etc.
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Ghostie could have an ability called something like 'Two Places at Once', where he would be able to project an image of himself crouching around a corner to make survivors think he's there. Then, under certain conditions, he might be able to gain increased speed to get to another location on the map just a little faster. Lore-wise, that might be a bit like the way he instills fear in people who are even in the same town where he's active, and they're never quite sure where he'll turn up next :D
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Absolutely nothing. They just released a killer who makes tunneling easier and every game is the same. Tunnel tunnel tunnel.
This update the message is clear: killers can use whatever strategies they want. Survivors? Do gens or get crows.The other thing they were “supposed to be dealing with” : slugging. Also just got easier because if you’re one of last two it’s now guaranteed they can slug and win.
At this point why does hatch exist? The 7-8 missed skill checks it takes for surv on hook gives killer PLENTY of time to find and down last survivor. Can’t even be courteous anymore and try and give your teammate hope.
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Tbf that's been the message for years now. Whenever the experience becomes miserable for one side, the advice is either to adjust or leave. Even the tried and true method of showing your dissatisfaction in-game or during streams (which unfortunately is usually the only way to really get anything done) has only led to negative change.
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Indeed. After all, originally there were more of him than just one. That was part of his idea. There could be some map element or item that would allow him to teleport between. Like a wardrobe or something.
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What they failed to realize is that it takes four survivors and only one killer to start a match. If you continuously keep survivors, unhappy they’re not going to play and there won’t be matches..
All of these changes that they’ve been implementing with the HUD information, now these penalties, etc., are saying that they want this to be a team game, but it’s not a team game.
If they really wanted it to be a team game, they would give us communication, but they don’t because of SWF. You cannot truly be a part of a team if you don’t have communication. Solo Q is not a team, but they’re trying to force us to be one.
They keep giving killers multiple powers and making them stronger while leaving survivors in a stale place. This is not like Friday the 13th where you could have three or four or even all seven counselors team up and jump Jason. Sure to a degree you can team up in dead by daylight, but it’s very limited and unless you are an SWF those team ups are going to be brief.
Trying to force one half of the two parts that make up this game play a specific way is not going to work. And it’s not going to work when they try to force the other half to play a certain way as well. Although I do not like tunneling and slugging and camping, they are strategies. Just like stealth and running save strategies for survivor. If you’re taking all of these things away from both you’re gonna end up with a very stale game that nobody wants to play because every game will be exactly the same, which is what we are seeing right now With the FNAF release.
Forcing survivors to do nothing but objectives and not have any type of strategy in their gameplay is a big mistake. And it will also be a mistake to force killers to not be able to have strategy.
Imagine playing call of duty and they tell you that everybody is into a line and just walk towards each other and shoot and anything outside of that is going to be penalized. That is effectively what is happening right now. But we’ve only gotten half of it because the killer side of things hasn’t happened yet. When it does, we’re going to have constant games of exactly the things that both sides don’t like. Killers will be gen rushed because that’s survivors’ only option right now. And when killers can’t do anything but hook survivors in a specific order, they’re not gonna like that either.
So if you are a killer man right now and you are so happy about all these changes because you’re getting your 4K just wait until it’s your turn because all of the nonsense you’ve been spewing now about how survivors are just whining and complaining will be put right back on you when you’re forced to hook different survivors and you can’t slug etc. etc. When you take the freedom of strategy out of an online game you take the fun out of it. And right now the fun has been taken out of the game for survivors. We are being forced to play in a very linear way with no room for variation.
This isn’t super Mario Brothers, where the way to play is very linear. This is an online multiplayer game where people are going against each other, and to not have the freedom to form strategy is going to be the ruin of this game.
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Except it's not, or they wouldn't be reworking it.
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There's a lot of comparisons being made all the time about how DBD should punish players in line with what other PVP games do, but the reality is that it's not like any other game on the market. Not even among its peers. As you said, it's lacking all of the hallmarks of a team game. The reason SWFs with comms are so popular is because it's the most efficient way to play the game. Comms were not rare when the game launched and every competitor since then has incorporated it. It also circumvents the issues with matchmaking, which operates like a competitive game but again lacks all of the hallmarks of comp. matchmaking.
The reality is that DBD worked the best when it didn't treat itself like every other game. It was never a very strong game, but it was at least fun to play. Now it's as if it's a square peg forcing itself into a round hole. It's very much a game that does not want to be played.
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They'll give survivors some irrelevant buff or addition that doesn't stop or discourage tunneling to justify buffing killers further.
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No, the logic doesn't go both ways.
In the very specific games where the survivor is faster than the killer, they can just weave through the killer's model to block vision like in the above screenshot.I don't care if you only think it's "mildly distracting". If a survivor is purposely trying to distract and hinder a killer from chasing someone else, then they aren't being tunneled, and they should have their anti-tunnel perks deactivated.
Survivors should not be encouraged to weaponize their anti-tunnel perks and mechanics. Causing survivors to lose collision, still allows them to distract and hinder the killer from chasing someone else.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on1 -
I mean, why, though?
If they're running away from you, they're also not being tunnelled, but you'd expect their anti-tunnel to still be on its timer until they actually engage with the game.
Why should their anti-tunnel disable if they're not actually having any effect or influence on the game…? You wouldn't even necessarily be able to then tunnel them if all they're doing is running around near-ish to you. It kinda sounds arbitrary, like you're more interested in punishing annoying intents than in what's actually happening in the match.
I would agree, for instance, that successfully getting a pallet save/flashlight save should cancel any remaining anti-tunnel they have left, like Off The Record and such, because at that point they're back in the action. If they're just sort of running around nearby (in this context not even able to click their flashlight)… they're not doing anything. There's no impact.
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you can keep saying its not but its still gonna be true whether you admit it or not. as to why they are reworking it, its because of all the survivor whining and them threatening to leave the game if they dont get their way is why their reworking it
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As long as there is no downside to tunneling // no reward for not tunneling, it will remain the meta gameplay strategy. The past maybe 20 survivor matches I've played, 19 of those Killers were tunneling and it worked.
It's highly efficient with very low risk of failure.
So there's only one way to address tunneling: Give Killers a better alternative. It's been like this since 2016, camping and tunneling were always meta gameplay strats and in the past 9 years, BHVR has not found a valid alternative to promote better gameplay tactics. It is what it is.
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No, you aren't psychic because I don't think generator repair times are the issue. But, in all of that, you almost quite made my point for me, then dismissed it. Yes, they need to incentivize killers to spread out the hooks and not tunnel, not punish killers for doing so. The "Cause" is that it's the most efficient way to play. So they need to change that. How? I don't know, I am not a game developer. But until they do figure something out to fix that, they will only be putting bandaids on the problem.
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How did that position even happen as Trapper?
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It probably wouldn't be a good idea for a survivor who can't be chased away to be free to go for pallet saves... that would be kinda unfair.
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That's the one concern I could see, is pallet saves. It's the one wrench in the works, but I do think you could design around it somehow.
One thing to remember is that being in position for a pallet save isn't guaranteed, at least. Still, something to think about.
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If someone is immune to being attacked, they could legit just follow the chase. Person on the ground recovers, then toss the pallet and finish healing that last smidgen.
Why would someone who can't be hit need to be able to toss a pallet to begin with?
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Well, that's sort of what I was just thinking. The simplest way of dealing with this is just to stop them being able to interact with pallets. It's a little clumsy, but it would work.
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Assuming they arnt just invisible or something like others have suggest, they'd also need to visually show a survivor has no collision. Imagine being in a lobby with 4 dweets, only to find out the guy you've been chasing who looks like the others is the guy you can't hit.
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BHVR's track record indicates they'll, in all likelihood, probably make it harder to tunnel by offering survivors even more protection like a mini-DS, a paused hook timer, maybe an extra hook state if the killer tunnels really hard. I don't think there'll be any more incentive to spread hooks though, which is already a pretty terrible strategy. Stick > carrot.
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I don't see a way that can work without removing even more player agency.
So I only hope it will not be something that'll make me switch from playing DbD on a regular basis to finally go trough my thousand games backlog.
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Intents are important, because if the survivor intends to distract or hinder the killer from chasing someone else, then they aren’t being tunneled.
If a survivor gets extra anti-tunneling protections, that allow them to get a pallet save, then you literally made the game worse, because you just made it easier to weaponize anti-tunneling.
At most, anti-tunneling should just remove collision for the normal duration of post-unhook haste, and still allow the killer to attack them. That would stop killers from bodyblocking survivors on basement stairs, which would be a buff to survivors, without allowing the survivors to weaponize the buff.
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If they're reworking it, it's because it's not valid. What reality are you living in?
This post is ironic tbh. You stated tunneling is the most efficient way to play and that's why it's done, while also stating that BHVR shouldn't decentivize tunneling because you don't want to "punish" Killers. To make tunneling not the most efficient strategy, they need to punish it. Unless you're in the camp that Killers should be rewarded more for not tunneling? Which isn't going to change how tunneling is the most efficient thing to do nor deterring toxic players from doing it every match. Killers shouldn't get any incentives to not tunneling.
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Right, but if they INTEND to distract or hinder the killer and can't ACTUALLY distract or hinder the killer, then the intent doesn't matter. That's the case with them just running around nearby or throwing pallets willy-nilly. Maybe that'd be suitably distracting for some players, but not overall, and it doesn't hinder the chase in any way shape or form.
Getting a pallet save is a wholly different issue, and one I think should be kept in mind. Once you've taken item use out of the equation it's the one remaining potential problem. That's just not what we started with here, we started with survivors running around nearby to try and distract the killer, which is decidedly not a problem.
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They won't, they are clueless and lazy. Just take a look at this guy who streams 24/7 hacking on a bot nurse to know how much they care about their own game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hhm3OoKSkMM
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Are you literally saying that when a survivor is running around, purposely leaving distracting scratchmarks, to hide where their teammate is…. that it doesn’t count as distracting? For real???
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If that was the hook order, then Surv 1 was hard tunneled and then it was Surv 2's turn to be hard tunneled.
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The problem with THAT is the sheer amount of extra accounts they have. Even if BHVR bans these accounts after 1 day, they have 1000 spares.
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….Yes?
I mean, it doesn't actually hide where their teammate is. You're still chasing that teammate, you still have sight and sound to track them with. Why would that be super distracting?
It's literally the same as when someone follows you around to try and get in position for a bodyblock, until such time as they actually do it they're a mild distraction that has no real bearing on the game.
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The killer doesn’t always have sight and sound of the teammate. If the teammate breaks line of sight, then someone else can purposely run around the area to leave distracting scratchmarks.
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It is quite the contrary, they have to punish it.
Because BHVR has already given killers some of the strongest tools in the game's history at various points, most notably extremely powerful killer metas like the gen kick meta or the Ruin + Undying combo.
And, during those metas, did tunneling decrease? No. And it won't decrease until you either punish it or remove it from the game.
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The dbd community is too awful for built in voice communication
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This is a stretch, in my opinion. Even if this actually happens and you actually lose the survivor you're chasing, the survivor trying to distract you isn't going to have intangibility forever.
I just don't see a world where this could possibly be a consistent issue.
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I mean… yeah. Survivors are physically incapable of winning without being total wankers about it. Imagine if you gave them voice comms.
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The zero collision doesn’t need to last longer than the 10 second period after being unhooked.
10 seconds is long enough for a survivor to escape the basement, when the killer is trying to bodyblock the survivor on the basement stairs.
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I've been flamed in end game chat by my solo q survivor teammates. I can't imagine how bad it would be if they could talk during the game lol
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I've been gaming a long time. I've never seen a collective group of gamers be as crappy as DBD survivors. They're sore losers, sore winners, nothing is ever their fault, and it's always "bad teammates" or "bad game design" or "bad killer doing bad things."
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Sure, that's probably a good number. I could see it being up to about five seconds longer than that just to be sure, but that's probably where we'd be looking. Though, it's not just the killer bodyblocking the survivors we'd be trying to avoid, it'd be survivors trying to bodyblock the killers too.
…Were you under the impression I was suggesting it'd be substantially longer or something?
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bro clearly did not play CoD.
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Killers do the exact same thing, you know.
DBD's toxicity isn't exclusive. You just happen to see more toxic survivors than killers because every DBD match has 4 survivors and 1 killer. If the game was 4v4, you'd see both in equal measure.
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I can honestly count on one hand the number of times I've seen BM from killers. Two hands, if we're being generous. Out of hundreds of survivor matches. Survivor BM is literally every game. Win or lose. Survivors are far more toxic, and it's not even close.
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Do not quote the ancient magic to me. I was there when it was written.
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I can't. I've seen countless toxic killers since I first started playing DBD, and countless toxic survivors too. This toxicity doesn't have a side.
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Then your experience is much different than mine. Then again, I'm not lumping in "camping or tunneling" into "toxic."
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Neither am I. Nor flashlight saves or the so called "gen-rushing" for that matter.
Just pure BM, and both sides can do it. It is unfortunate, DBD would be better without toxicity, but some killers and some survivors choose to do it.
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