http://dbd.game/killswitch
My Feedback: AFK/Hiding Solution
So, it's safe to say this solution didn't end up very good. Many people disliked it, and in the end, it pretty much equals to nothing.
In this post, I have decided to give my thoughts on how it would work. Huge thanks to @Coffeecrashing who compiled all the rules , explaining them very well.
As to the changes...
First things first, a big problem with the mechanic is that it tries to solve bodyblocking, AFK and excessive hiding with a one-size-fits-all solution. And as such, one of them drags the other down. So, I'll separate them and touch up on them one by one.
Bodyblocking Solution:
• Standing still for 30 seconds will cause you to lose colision until moving again. This lingers for 7 seconds after moving.
• Nothing else (crows, location of other players, crouching/teabagging) doesn't impact this mechanic at all.
AFK Solution:
• Just a proper revert will be fine.
• Standing still for 60/70/80 seconds will cause you to get AFK crows. After 90 seconds, the killer will periodically get notified of your location.
And the last, and most problematic one...
Extreme hiding Solution:
• Whenever you are not interacting with anything, a timer starts ticking down. After 70/80/90 seconds, you get 1/2/3 crows.
• This timer is doubled if you are actively moving beyond a certain distance (this would require a system that tracks how much you moved, so you can't just run in circles in the basement or something similar) or are in a 28 meter radius of the killer.
• The following things reset the timer right away:
- Finishing a generator
- Healing someone for a full health state or getting healed for a full health state (includes self healing)
- Unhooking someone
- Fully cleansing/blessing a totem
- Entering chase (the timer also stops while you're in a chase)
- Getting downed
- Getting hooked (the timer also stops ticking)
- Opening an Exit Gate fully
- The Endgame starting in any way
- Finishing an Invocation
- Interacting with the killer power (works on a case-to-case basis depending on how crucial/dangerous it is)
- Becoming the last survivor standing
• The following things gradually remove crows, and then reset the timer and stop it while you're doing them:
- Repairing (12/14/16 sec.)
- Healing someone else or getting healed by someone else (12/14/16 sec.)
- Cleansing/Blessing totems (14/15/16 sec.)
- Opening a gate (12/14/15 sec.)
- Doing an Invocation (25/27/30 sec.)
• The following perks, debuffs and powers stop the timer for everyone, not reseting it:
- Oni's Demon Dash
- Myers' Evil Within Tier III
- Cenobite's Chain Hunt
- Grim Embrace
- Hex: Devour Hope (3rd stack)
- Hex: Haunted Grounds
- No Way Out
- Haywire (only when active)
• The following things do NOT remove crows or stop the timer:
- Self Healing (only finishing the heal counts)
- Opening Chests
What are your thoughts? Is it fair? Did I forget something?
Comments
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My opinion is that extreme hiding appears to be an issue that never needed solving as it essentially never happens. I know that personally, I've seen exactly one case of hiding that was ever problematic for a killer, whether I was the killer or when watching any of a number of streamers, which I do nearly every day.
Is there any evidence shown by anyone that this is genuinely a problem? I don't believe it at all at the moment, and currently suspect it was a massive waste of time and resources for BHVR.
I guess it's possible that people who play killer by tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging for 4k are more likely to see such behavior, as people playing survivor in such matches might be inclined to not even interact with the killer. But at that point, why are we punishing people who got BMed by giving them AFK crows?
I will agree that survivor teams suffer if one player does a disproportionate amount of hiding and doesn't take chase when they need to. Maybe in that context, AFK crows make some sense.
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I would like this added, i play both sides and i see my randoms camp or well refusing to do any gens or unhook, first i thought they were planning to self heal but no.
When playing a killer i often get left with 2 survivors who are both 2nd hook state and they refuse to do any gens for entire rest of match and only decide to go in and light tap to be annoying, they will just eventually hide in lockers for long and move across map throwing.
I dont abandon because yeah i dont fully mind its just a game it doesnt tilt me its just unfair and childish behavior.
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It happens in almost every second or third game when i play myers for me as a killer i play on ps5 they can see im on console i would say i play avg killer i obey the rules, if i see flashlights i run lightborn if i dont see it then i dont.
I swear its the play with friend squads that run flashlights that do this behavior.
Meanwhile on survivor side i get them almost every next game or every second game, they reset it by running around doing totems and chests and spend few seconds repairing then dipping across the universe and hiding entire match refusing to even do half a gen or go unhook their mate across the other map where killer isnt located at.
I run killer info aura perk to help out when there is one person hooked and we all see each other so it just is them
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It's just weird to me that other people talk about whole teams hiding, but I have never experienced it myself. I definitely accept that this happens to you, but I wonder what causes the difference. If some people experience this often, I would think this would be something that I would at least have seen occasionally on stream.
The only instance I've ever seen was a very weird swf streaming, with each other as viewers that I happened to drop in and see. They called out the killer's location and hid for most of the game. I did wonder why the killer wasn't finding them, but they were also clearly out of their depth. It was very sad to watch :/
It is known that sometimes a survivor player will hide and not do much for an entire match. Those do occur, and usually doom their team when it happens.
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They could be playing in a party but maybe not or only 2 play in a party and 1 of them dies and spectates the other person and tells them to hide and stall to get a hatch but its so bad because i often feel like a black sheep doing majority of objectives and rescuing others as best as i can
I wont glorify myself and say im the greatest but i can say i safely can do on average 1 guaranted gen or 2 if the team completely sucks by sucking i mean they die in minutes at 5/4 gens left.
But i do get good squad often too its generally a gamble honestly for me its 50 50 when i click play, and by good i mean we do most gens 1 gen left and 2 or 3 survivors left we manage to escape which is a win for me it feels rewarding to do most gens but sometimes annoying
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Now, this version would kind of help the survivor in a slugging for a 4k situation, with becoming last survivor STANDING (not alive, just not downed/hooked) losing all crows and getting 140 seconds to do practically anything.
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I imagine that's probably a good thing :)
I'm also definitely still curious if I can find some examples I can watch of cases where whole teams of survivors were hiding. That has less to do with your whole post and more to do with a part of the topic that I've seen people mention on these forums, but have almost never experienced. At the moment, tweaking AFK crows for hiding feels to me a little like tweaking hamburgers because one of them tasted bad. Like, somebody had a bad experience once, but not so bad that it ruined their experience of the game over time, but let's just change the whole system just in case.
I imagine this must be happening more often than in my experience though. Maybe I need to go search around to see if people have posted some videos :D
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Personally, I think removing 1 crow at a time is just unnecessarily complicated, and will lead to frustrating experiences. I want all the interaction rules to reset AFK points to 0, to keep it simple. I don't know why generator repairing removes crows 1 at a time, when none of the other current rules work like that.
I also want BHVR to actually decide what they want the hiding prevention system to do. Personally, I thought the whole plan was to stop survivors from hiding for large periods of time, because it's frustrating for the killer, and because it's frustrating for the other survivors in the game.
However, the AFK crows got nerfed so badly that they are currently useless, and if BHVR doesn't plan on making them more strict, then I'd rather BHVR completely revert the AFK crows to what they were a year ago, and publicly declare the entire thing a failure. I'm completely serious with this statement.
And when the phase 2 changes happen for killers, I want the camping/tunneling/slugging changes to have the exact same impact as these AFK crows. I want BHVR to remember all the feedback survivors gave about the AFK crows, and how changes shouldn't punish innocent people, and changes shouldn't be difficult for new players, and changes shouldn't take away strategies that have been in the game for years, and changes shouldn't make people feel like there is a "right way" to play the game. All the feedback that caused the AFK crows to become useless, should be applied to the phase 2 killer changes.
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Reading this, I realized that, yeah, the crows vainshing one by one is needlessly convoluted. I'll adjust that later.
And yeah, they should decide if they want to commit or not. Half of the QOL Phase 2 just got nerfed to uselessness with this update (all the more reason to separate the mechanics away from one another), and the whole thing seems just pointless, not even mentioning it may end up unfair as you mentioned.
I'd be more leaning towards commiting to it.
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Your idea for solving bodyblocking isnt a solution, waiting 30 seconds will ruin the experience.
Bodyblocking should be solved within 5 seconds, time enough for any Killer to fire their weapon and benefit.0 -
I get it's not the best, but still milion times better than BHVR' 150+ seconds.
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ofc, but I rather that the bodyblocking part was super small to make games with players who might bodyblock just flow like a normal game. We could make it look like the Survivor ducks under the Killers feet too. Scooby doo style.
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