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It's funny how High MMR and 4 Stack SWF are a very small percentage of Players.

Lixadonna
Lixadonna Member Posts: 691

But yet the game is balanced around these %.

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Comments

  • xGodSendDeath
    xGodSendDeath Member Posts: 716

    Saying the game is balanced around 4 man SWF comp squads might be the funniest thing i've heard all year

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,731

    But that's what we did to them (BHVR)

    Saying which Perks are bast (and which aren't)… and players used them

    Saying which Killers are best (and which aren't)… and players used them

    Saying which maps are best (for which side you play… and which aren't)… and players used them (for which side they played)

    SO saying that it's funny is an understatement… also not funny to me (but that's just my comment on this)

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 2,108

    Strongest thing is probably comp swf with full meta ( in totnament they have perks and items restrictions, if they didnt have them then even best blights woul sweat more), then are s-tiers and high a-tiers right behind them ( they are the ones who can deal with strong swf or teams, third are kilkers on avarage and last are solo q which isnt surprising they lack team work and coordination which is the whole reason why they loose because you can get sable running whole game with flashlight trying to be jedi master and get saves but dont get them and doesnt do objective which hinders whole team or meg which is the bane of all teams. Problem so dont see basekit features like basekit ds,bt wont bring solo q and swf closer but only makes the gap even bigger, same with killers being able to deal with this features like difference between trapoer and blight ( thats like from bottom of ocean to the top of Everest).

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    Well yeah, if you’ve got a 50% overall killer winrate, you’re not going to face many swf…

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    With my simulated tests i calculated anyone with above that treshold will face a premade 4 squad survivors in 60%-70% scenarios with each next match.

    The game i would say has been forced balanced on both swf, high end killers, solo q combined together but in worst possible way ever, gen slowdown perks have been crushed they are not really viable only pain res, pop maybe, eruption but they have gotten a nerf too.

    I do wonder if some people on this post ever wonder why do killers actually tunnel/slug and why do premade squads do gen rush and then almost always mock the killer for not even killing a single person or 2 or 3.

    Well the answer is because killers are put in a state of sweat and internal panic because when you play a killer you kinda have this invisible clock on you timer that is influenced how fast they pop the gens, meanwhile as a survivor idk if you guys noticed but its much more calm experience you get to explore the map can waste time play mind games etc, obviously there are some killers you cant have freedom againts and are in panic state but rarely.

    I rarely see a killer bully or mock players when doing a full wipe at 2 or 3 gens left, why is that so?

    They were probably playing ######### scared againts survivors trying hard to prevent gen rush lol.

    There has been few killers ive faced like wraith, trickster that did mock but the win goes to survivors that mock the players.

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    You didn’t even need to run simulations to understand what's happening at high MMR — it's just basic logic. A SWF will always climb higher than solo queue players simply due to voice comms, coordination, and overall synergy. It’s a massive advantage, and honestly, it’s borderline unfair for the killer. Yet people act like it’s not even a factor.

    Now about gen slowdown perks — let’s be real. Take something like Pain Resonance: sounds great on paper, but in practice, it’s not that useful when the meta pushes you to tunnel rather than rotate between survivors. Same goes for Pop Goes the Weasel: too RNG-dependent. If you’re tunneling and trying to secure a win, you’re not leaving a chase to hit a generator unless it just happens to be nearby when you down someone. So realistically, Pop only works by chance. Most gen slowdown perks are theory-craft tools that don’t hold up under real pressure. Aside from passive ones like Deadlock, they’re not as viable as they seem.

    The real issue? Most players never stop to think about this. They stay blind to it — mostly because they’ve never actually played killer seriously, let alone climbed to a point where things get rough. Whether they accept it or not, the facts are there, plain as day, and now people everywhere are starting to talk about it. Ignoring it changes nothing.

    When you play killer, you're under constant pressure. You’re sprinting across the map nonstop, trying to manage time, hooks, gens — everything — while survivors benefit from an overloaded kit. They’re faster than you in chases, they have two base health states (can go up to three with perks like Dead Hard), and they even have tools to bait you into mistakes like DS, without giving you any sort of warning. You're basically playing blind against mechanics that often outweigh your own power.

    That’s why killers tunnel, slug, and proxy camp. Not because they enjoy it. Because they have to.

  • SpringMyTrap
    SpringMyTrap Member Posts: 752

    OP actually thinks funny perks like OTR or STB are made and balanced around high MMR top % 4 man SWFs xdd

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    Honestly, just forget it, they're completely off track. And I haven't even mentioned items like the flashlight or the toolbox, which still give you extra time, despite the already overpowered kits without them.

  • rvzrvzrvz
    rvzrvzrvz Member Posts: 1,186

    What's so funny ? they've been balancing around killer vs SWF for years at this point, and they've made solo queue very weak in the process… the problem is 4 man SWF makes up a small % of the playerbase, and the majority are casuals playing with friends not exactly comp players

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    I think you're mistaken about the perception of the game. Saying that it's full of casual players is far from the truth. The majority of players here are tryhards, giving their all in every match. They sweat, fight for every second, and at the slightest mistake, they'll start insulting you. When the match ends, it's a flood of hate, sometimes even aimed at your family and descendants. Some will even go as far as threatening your life. Maybe it's time to ask: are we really playing the same game? Because that's definitely not what we experience on a daily basis.

  • SpringMyTrap
    SpringMyTrap Member Posts: 752

    i mean, flashlights are whatever, playing for pallet saves is much stronger anyway, but it's insane how good medkits/toolboxes can be.

    played 4 commodious SWF the other day and every game except one was under 6 mins. that one game was vs 4 slowdowns blight who was still 3 outed by us xd

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    Yeah but those casuals still have comms they can spread around and just call out that the killer got ditched and its coming to them now and it will go like that in circles.

    They might not be as fast and agile as real high end squads but they still are way above the difficulty rating compared to regular casuals who are not in a party.

    Like people who downvote me probably play with those exact friends and do exact things and clip on people post it on tik tok/yt shorts and make fun of casual killers that are wrongfully put againts them just because casual killers end up killing npc like casual survivors?

    Like come on now lol, those type of people need to wake up and realize that the proper system needs to be added to make it equal footing.

    Just because a casual killer goes up againts casual squads who might or may not be premade and are in voice chat, and then the killer does "good" by definition good you need to do 3kills constantly before the MMR system in place hits you with insane mmr scaling that does not make any sense.

    So you are telling me Jimmy over here with 200 hours maining one killer with decent perks and gets good luck againts casuals and certain squads, ends up with few wins aka 3kills 1 escape, they end up then getting placed with Debra, Alice, John, Joe who have 2k+ hours and just obliterate that poor Jimmy killer because they got way more hours and use comms to the max potential.

    Correct me if i am wrong isnt that how the system is that has been confirmed the senior dev CM

    That system in place is unfair and gives unfair advantage if you can exploit it like many people that downvote me on my post claim is "funny".

    No nothing of this is funny? Dont you get it people?

    Nobody wants to punish playing with friends and using comms.

    Nobody wants to punish killers either.

    If everyone who downvoted me has actually read the post you would see this is about a general universal balance that wont stick to only one side, its about making equal footing to fully eliminate the advantage that comms give and stacking perks and exploiting it further by using voice chat.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773
    edited July 6

    By the calculations of AI and me providing information about the game the AI calculated a constant 60% chances of getting put againts said SWFs, the chances of having full random casual lobby is 10-15% and then it scales.

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    It's truly ridiculous. Earlier, I had a perfect game with a 'Myers P2' and an anti-loop build. I didn’t even have any perks to slow down the game, yet I absolutely dominated the match, both in terms of macro and micro. I had perfect targeting, perfect chasing, and optimal zoning. Despite all that, I ended the game with just one generator left, even though each chase was wrapped up in 15 seconds, maximum. It’s completely insane and incomprehensible. We're talking about flawless performance, and yet the game didn’t take that effort into account. It’s frustrating to see that even when all your calls are perfect, you end up winning with just one generator left because the game lets teams rush gens at a ridiculous speed.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    This right here is what im talking about <--- the current system is only pumping stats for the devs who are humans who have duties they cant be there and constantly nerf and buff perks and figure out ways to balance the mmr system.

    The game is full of scattered players both casuals and premades and high tier players.

    Majority of games you wont get with true raw casuals because they simply sadly play like NPCs dont utilize pallets or vaults or jukes, they dont want to do gens they run around the map and thats about it.

    Thats the sad reality of this game that the devs are probably forced out of their hand to have these nerfs in places for perks because they dont want to lose those players but they still leave because they will stay and always will be clueless unless they play with friends and have comms and get external help which DOES NOT REQUIRE SKILL

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41
    edited July 6

    Those who downvote represent the current state of the game. They categorically reject any idea of change, despite the solid arguments and facts presented. They're caught in a mental battle where it seems like you must choose a side: "Are you for killers or for survivors?!" When in reality, we couldn’t care less about these divisions. What we're after is simply helping and offering ideas that could balance the game, based on concrete arguments.

    In the end, downvoting becomes just a subtle way to respond with rage, a form of "ragebait" in response to well-founded arguments.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    They are bunch of tryhards who simply mock the killer every given time unless the killer ends up dominating the game, then they DC or simply go AFK.

    I would like to know if anyone here that downvotes my replies can answer my simple question.

    Why is that when i play as a survivor i never get a killer that mocks and bullies the players?

    Only occassion is ghostface because its a known fact in community that its a hybrid joke funny killer that can crouch spam, but that to me is not mocking because he just wont spam crouch on hook?

    I get way more people that mock the killer than what killer do to survivors, usually a killer will just wipe them off the board and kill all instantly.

    Slugging? Yeah i only seen it happen many times if a survivor is the one mocking and provoking the killer first with having certain shirtless outfits or other goofy outfits, they usually just save them for the last lol?

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773
    edited July 6

    I just want devs to make the game into a proper asymmetrical pvp game that the only skill that is required is quick adaptation to the map randomness, dynamic perk values, unable to use real voice comms for advantage.

    All of that has to be polished first before perks can be nerfed and buffed in the first place by devs.

    Also people seem to forget what is coming by the end of 2025 or start of 2026 to DBD.

    Its a system which will show perk loadout to fellow casual randoms inside a lobby which means now random survivors can also see if they will carry any duplicate perks which will then show that killer is absolutely slept on lol.

    But again im just pointing out a fact that high tier survivors win because they have PLAYED the game long enough to know the predictable patterns and because the game has no real RNG on top of their exploitation of using voice chat to rig the game in their advantage basically giving them 5th perk that cant be countered.

    So many variables and nobody seems to care or look at the direction of a real problem.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773
    edited July 6

    Whoever is downvoting me, tell me why do you hate the fact that im speaking the truth about why survivors in squads keep winning because of their comms and playtime?

    We both know its because the game is not a true asymmetrical game even if its stated and sold as one?

    And we both know the reason why you downvote me is because if devs do add the system of true asymmetry you will complain how the game is too hard and even with your knowledge and 6 year playing you wont be able to predict each match because it will be different you will have to rely on your own skill and your teams by exploring the existing maps figuring out what place to go to when the layout shifts and changes.

    You do realize the game will be perfect 1:1 ratio of how it would feel like if a real killer is chasing you and hunting to kill by placing you in a full different layout where you need quick thinking, reflexes

    Dead by Daylight is an online asymmetric multiplayer survival horror video game.

    Wikipedia 2025

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    That's exactly it. They just want to stay in their comfort zone.

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    I see that you have no valid argument to present, so you choose to take the easy route with this childish attack on my killer skills. If you feel the need to belittle someone to feel heard, that's clearly an ego problem. I have nothing to prove, especially not to you.

    I'm not a slave to the meta like you, playing killers like Blight or Nurse that are popular for winning at all costs. I enjoy playing with less popular killers and I continue to stomp my games without caring what others think. It's not a coincidence that I rack up victories; it's simply the result of playing with skill and strategy. But as I said, I have no intention of proving anything to someone who prefers to attack rather than debate.

    In summary, you seem to underestimate essential game dynamics, like the difference between playing solo and in a group. You think your individual experience, based on your own games with squads or specific killers, is the norm for everyone. The communication and strategy dynamics between 4 survivors who know each other make all the difference and can turn a match into a real torture for the killer. Ignoring that is showing a narrow view of the game. Maybe one day you'll open your eyes to the reality of a match where team coordination plays a decisive role, not just the performance of a killer on a tier list.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    Thats the problem the game is far too different than what asymmetrical genre is supposed to stand for.

    This is such a wrongful way to balance things as devs they need machine learning or atleast a system that is close to it that maintains it in real time.

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    Wait, are we seriously still debating whether the game is balanced? Like, really? We're still asking this question in 2025? Seriously?

    So, you think it's balanced to be in a 4v1 situation, especially when they're all in voice chat? That's basically team play, right? Not to mention the countless perks that let survivors recover from downed states, have extra lives, or move faster than the killer... Come on, seriously? 🤡

  • Roco45
    Roco45 Member Posts: 342

    They aren't even a small percentage. Every Killer that I play, whether it's a brand new one I just bought or one I haven't touched in years, majority of my matches are against SWF's. I rarely get 4 random Solo's. If SWF's were such a small portion, then BHVR would nerf them no problem and wouldn't revolve the game around them, but BHVR tries to placate everyone by stating that they aren't a large portion of the playerbase and so they don't need to be uniquely reworked, but then balance the game around them making SoloQ a true horror show (and not in a good way).

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41

    The community of this game continues to astound me year after year, especially when you see everyone excited about getting the same old content: a new licensed killer, sometimes without a new map, and usually with plenty of bugs. Seriously, is that all you want? More skins and licensed killers? How about bringing back killers that are already in the game but are rarely seen, or actually balancing the game properly so that everyone can have fun?

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276
    edited July 6

    Explain please. The kill and escape rates are right at the target levels where the devs want them to be. The only exception is 4-man SWF which has a significantly higher escape rate than all the other groups. So by definition, than game is not balanced around high MMR 4-man SWF.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276

    Who is saying they always face SWF comp squads? You accusing everyone else of claiming this is the only “false narrative” I see here.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276

    Can you win consistently as killer? If so, your kill rate stats should show at least 75% kill rate. Are you actually going to back up what you are always saying, or are you going to continue throwing out baseless claims backed up with zero factual information?

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    Apperently some people think that me and @Sjady are saying every match is againts Full premade swf, i myself stated its only about 60% of times, but it scales very unstable due to people purposly deranking them selves and then you end up with high end players in low rank lobbies againts casual killers and so on.

    Problem also is that when the killer gets 3 kills steadily he gets put againts high playtime and high mmr survivors which are mostly in a full premade using comms.

  • Sjady
    Sjady Member Posts: 41
    edited July 6

    So, apparently the game is super balanced, right? Then riddle me this — why is it that 90% of killers I see these days are either The Ghoul, Nemesis, or Dracula? Last time I checked, there were over twenty killers in the game.

    Could it be… maybe, just maybe, because most players know they’ll get stomped if they pick anything outside of the top tier? So instead, they go for the “no skill required” options. The ones that carry you when you don’t have solid fundamentals or game sense.

    But hey — the game is balanced, right? Everything is fine. It’s just a coincidence that everyone flocks to the exact same killers over and over. Totally normal in a healthy, well-balanced competitive environment. Nothing to see here.🤡

  • Fuzzycube
    Fuzzycube Member Posts: 316

    Lower MMR SWF groups can be even worse than solo survivors because they’re often so altruistic they’ll happily throw the entire game if it means saving a teammate, sometimes staying grouped up together the entire march.

  • Coffee2Go
    Coffee2Go Member Posts: 773

    That is also true, usually happens when a mobility meta killer is putting pressure into tunneling to not lose againts gen rush.

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 553

    Yes, I find killer mind numbing easy and survivor is near impossible which is very stupid, balance-wise. Why is killer, the person that plays alone, not a skillful role?

    Why do you need more proof? There are plenty of killers that post their winstreaks and boast about it. Survivor? Not so much. People are too scared to try it because skill simply means nothing for survivors.

  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 553

    People use whatever provides easiest wins. You could argue the other killers are still too strong but if they are not as strong as x,y, and z, people use x,y,z because they are even easier.

  • Orvarihusklumpen
    Orvarihusklumpen Member Posts: 284

    How exactly is it balanced around that? I don't think i have ever heard from anyone at BHVR saying in a Q and A or a dev stream that they balance for the top percentage of the playerbase so where are your sources?

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 818

    Nothing wrong with balancing around high MMR players… In multiplayer games where MMR ranges actually make sense, that is.

  • DevLinky
    DevLinky Member Posts: 69

    That is kind of wrong. Some kill rates are way too high, and I can almost guarantee you that some are way too low.

    dbd-stats-q12025-killerkillrates.png
  • mecca
    mecca Member Posts: 553
    edited July 6

    Imagine if survivors won that much.

    Seriously, only in DBD can there be that much unbalance for a PvP game.

    Edit: The stats do not include people that DC. When survivors are losing and they rage quit, they are not considered. The kill rates are always higher than advertised.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276

    I need proof because I don’t believe you. I don’t think you actually play killer at all. Maybe a little bit here and there just to say “yeah, I play killer”, but I bet you really don’t find it “mind-numbing easy.” I think you all you do is talk about how easy and OP the killer side is, but in reality you have no idea what it’s like. I’ll gladly shut up if you prove me wrong.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 2,276

    I’m talking about the overall average kill rates. I completely agree that some killers are too strong and some are too weak. That’s a different issue that BHVR needs to solve, but they probably won’t because there is so much content in the game now that they don’t have enough resources to update/balance older killers.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 4,414
    edited July 6

    Thats not proof, those are anecdotes. There is no proof that the killer experience is easier or harder than the survivor one because it is not a quantitative statement with any type of evidence. Even kill rates mean nothing about either role being "mind numbingly easy" or "near impossible" unless they are insanely inflated, like 80%+. Otherwise when they are where they are, it means there are plenty of people having a wide variety of experiences. In other words, it's just more pointless doom posting.

    This is a game ruled by chaotic averages. For every time the other player is using something busted in their loadout, you can be too. This game sides with the prepared far more than it does either role. Don't forget that also applies to the other 4 players in any given match, both allies and enemies. Maybe you find killer so much easier because you cannot understand the concept of compensating for shared agency?

  • Zuiphrode
    Zuiphrode Member Posts: 515

    More specifically, the game is balanced around -killers- being the 1%. Surv gameplay is balanced around casuals who can't be bothered to learn the basics. Also comp SWFs don't exist and we have to think about the gameplay experience of weed.vegeta2010 who listens to rap on full volume at 138 decibels while he games then cries that Springtrap is too op because he keeps grabbing him off a gen.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 9,521

    The game is 1v4, so yes, that part's balanced. At the very least, it's not inherently UNbalanced.

    @ topic — I don't know that it is balanced around that small percentage of players, honestly. I've seen more changes geared at helping out people towards the mid range and for solo queue than I have the alternatives.