Thoughts on NOED "rewarding bad play"

Remember. It doesn't reward bad play unless it makes the low skill option ALSO optimal compared to the high skill option:

EX: Letting the 3rd survivor die to take the hatch is optimal compared to saving him and doing the last 3 gens with 2 people.

and NOT when you are able to potentially recover from a bad position:

EX: Getting hit and then later healing

Most perks including NOED (and yes even DS. It has other problems) are in the second category since a Killer with NOED active is less likely to win than a Killer with 3 perks and gens still up.

I understand your examples very well, its just not very good examples, since dbd is more complex than a cardgame. Cardgames have a single objective, while dbd has different objectives for both sides.

But continue your example of card games. If you have 1 life left, you lost 96% of the game, that is true. Given the state of the game, the opponent probably has the board while you have nothing left. You should probably lose next round in this circumstance.

And now you're all smart " you just activated my trap card. I didnt lose. It was all planned to almost lose. I win now." 200iq. You still have to lose in the first place

Know what good killers think of noed? Pretty useless most of the time. There is no lategame.

Dude, this isn't a cardgame.

This is Dead by Daylight, where healthpoints from cardgames =/= generators in dbd. Sorry you lack the gamesense in dbd, even though you have one in cardgames.

If your gameplan revolves around losing the majority of the game to turn it around with a perk. Then you are too reliant on this perk to turn games around for you.

My issue with it is that it's often treated as a band-aid fix for weak killers (Freddy for instance). People often use it in higher ranks to help secure a hook or two, but you can usually work around it. Get the totem or sneak around while the killer is elsewhere. It's more like adrenaline, really, imo and while it sucks when it goes off, it's something they use to help the user if end game comes. It's just a different build, like an end game build. Survivors have end game builds, too. And it isn't like it'll always go off or will always be useful to the killer.

You can make the killer play with only 3 perks if you

1. cleanse the totems during the trial. They're not hard to find.
2. cleanse the totem after the perk is active. Global map notification.
3. cleanse the totem after the killer got one survivor down with NOED, save the person. You're making the killer swap one perk for one hook. Up to you to decide if it's worth it or not. Then, if the problem is that NOED rewards bad killers, you surely can rescue the survivor and win the chase vs a bad killer, right?

NOED can be used as a crutch, yes, but with the currently pipping system and how it works, it won't "boost" killers' ranks vs equally skilled or better survivors, it will actually punish the killer for being bad at everything else (gatekeeper, chaser, malicious and even devout).

This game is in dire need of secondary objectives. I don't think removing the incentive to cleanse totems is the way to go. I think we should add more incentive actually. I want games to be slower and more strategic without making gens take ages to complete. So if the team of 4 survivors flew by the game doing gens as fast as possible, I don't see what's wrong with more strategy and risky saves at the end. If they took the time to cleanse all the totems, the killer has more time to apply map pressure, but NOED does nothing at the end. I believe we should have more perks that reward the killer for having totems up by the late game and punishes survivors for neglecting them.

But thats exactly the strategy, that bad killer use. I plan to give up most of my objectives, since i get an enourmous power boost with noed just before i really lose.

Yeah, no ######### that works out well, that is because noed is so strong. That doesnt make you a tactical killer.

It is a perk that boosts you just before you lose the game. Thats it. Who benefits from it. People who lose more often. Aka bad killers

This clip is a perfect analogy to the way you view your argument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPHorPkiTw

Funny thing is almost no good killer used noed. Tons of free wills, all decide to not use this perk. Is it shame? Or is it calculated? If it only activates ~10% of the games.

The more you win, the less use you get out of noed. Can you see, why a good killer doesnt use noed? And conclude, why the average noed user seems bad and boosted? Doesnt mean you're bad. But you're not confident to win. The target group is slowly forming...

There are streamers who use noed. They're mostly bad though. But that is all subjective going from here.

Let me rephrase my argument: Do you think its worth it to use noed, if you win 9/10 games before the last generator is done? If not, what the winrate where you would stop/start using noed?

You know, i can understand that pov. And see good reason for it. Its the one good reason to use noed i cant deny. Similar to an accident insurance.

But personally, i can not look at a dead perk all the time. If its useless most of the time, i'd rather turn it into something useful all the time. Also, at some point, you really have to question wether another perk is better. Even in the 1/10 games that you lose, the fourth perk could have been Spirit Fury which may have won you the game before the gates are powered. And is the 1/10 game noed win worth it playing with 3 perks for the other games?

You dont seem stupid, you should understand why noed and bad players are related, even though you disagree.

That last sentence hit the nail. You had that gut feeling about noed before, if i had to guess. You know why people look down on it.

If you like it and it calms you, keep using it. But be prepared for the shitstorm like using an instaheal. It just triggers people on the other side.

I actually like noeds effects too. No one escapes death, great name and atmosphere when its on. If it was built-in for the lategame rework, i would appreciate it. Built-in noed would be less problematic than perk noed imo. With a totemcounter for survivors, it could just be the secondary objective we need. just my 2c on noed, i dont hate it, but it doesnt feel right as a perk rn.

@ThirdSealOPplzNerf Not having every perk active all the time is extremely common and certainly not as “not easy” as you make it out to be.

A killer isn’t getting any ingame benefit out of BBQ if all survivors are within the radius or have hidden in lockers. Playing with Spies rn is like playing without a perk. A killer isn’t getting any benefit out of Bloodwarden or Remember Me if he/she kills all survivors before the gates are powered. The same is true for NOED.

I think that NOED is a fair counter to a SWF team rushing generators when you're playing someone like Freddy, but in solo queues against default Megs it's completely unnecessary and a petty way to win.

I still don't use it against SWF teams because when you're playing against a team you shouldn't be expecting to win with a weak killer, especially at rank 1. Just play a better killer or dodge the lobby (although dodging is kind of petty as well considering the extensive wait times).

go watch his vod if you want to see for your self. I clipped it because I wanted to show a few friends what he had said. as I told them, if they want to hear the whole context of it they are more then welcome to go check out his vod as well.