Dull Totems, Hex Totems and Hex Perks
Okay so I initially wanted to do it on reddit but that's not really got a section for this and mostly posts about balance have been ignored by players and gotten 0 interaction so I thought it best to post here (Yes it's a new account on these forums hello I'm new don't hate me please).
Firstly let's get a what I talk about out the way:
1. Dull and Hex Totems need be rewarding to be completed and must have a slight challenge associated with them to offset this.
2. Killers should know which totem(s) is/are which Hex perk(s) via an icon above the totem and/or Killers should be able to choose which Dull Totems gets lit for their respective Hex Totem(s).
3. NoeD and Dull Totem changes.
4. Misc stuff for Hex Perks/Totems that I would like to see tried at least.
Firstly Hex Totems, "The Big Question" if you will:
Add hard-ish Skills Checks to Hex Totems (A decisive-esque Skill Check) and make cleaning them take a bit longer (Say 25-30 seconds). Make them worth a similar amount to a single completed generator.
The more Hex Totems there are on the map, the shorter the time it takes to clean them by 3-5 seconds This helps incase a killer brings 2-3 Hex Perks and you are bottlenecked into cleaning them before you make any progress on Generators (I can see Ruin, Huntress Lullaby and Thrill of the Hunt to be an extremely powerful combination if this is not a thing). Two things from this before people say anything:
It would have to be less points than a generator due to it taking a shorter time but having harder skills checks balances it out better in terms of difficulty and thus, a closer value in points.
If it's too long to clean with Hex: Thrill of the Hunt I would nerf it slightly or give more points for completing the cleaning of a hex totem under the effects of Thrill of the Hunt depending on what would feel better. The PTB can help with this as something similar was done with the Hatch where they had two iterations in the 2.0.0 PTB at some point although none came to fruition, this can be a good test. (And yes - I believe this change, along with the rest, are big enough to warrant it to be part of a chapter or a full mid-season update).
Secondly, Killers should know which totem(s) is/are which Hex perk(s):
This is self explanatory and will help Killers who run multiple Hex Totems. I’ve seen a lot of Wraiths and Hags use Thrill of the Hunt and Ruin or Devour Hope and this will help this playstyle. This has TWO solutions:
Solution One (Killer Favoured): Killers should know which totem(s) is/are which Hex perk(s) via an icon above the totem.
Solution Two (Survivor Favoured - Slightly): Killers should be able to choose which Dull Totems gets lit for their respective Hex Totem(s) and thus, be forced to remember which Hex Totem is which Hex Totem.
I personally prefer Solution Two because they should be forced to remember them for putting the totems in the ideal places that they want. You cannot give both because that to me would be well well well too strong and killer-favoured. (Again the PTB is a thing, lob it on there yeah?).
Thirdly, NoeD and Dull Totems:
Dull Totems: People refuse to do them because they want to be out of the game asap and they are not really rewarded for cleaning them, yet they are punished for not cleaning them (NoeD) while The Killer is rewarded for it. You can say “Oh the reward is preventing NoeD”, yeah that is true but that’s not really a good thing when the only Hex Perk that you can stop by doing all Dull Totems is NoeD. Dull Totems need to be improved and more rewarding, but NOT as rewarding as a generator as generators means escape, totems do not.
NoeD: I understand that NoeD is a general "counter" to Gen Rushing - much the same Hex: Ruin is a "counter" to Gen Rushing - but NoeDs implementation is awful and the reward for NoeD is HUGE in comparison to Ruin. Ruin at most lets you hook 2-3 survivors once before the totem is destroyed (Unless you get lucky and you’re in Backwater Swamp or you’re playing against Potatoes) and the game can continue as normal. This is the breaking point for me so NoeD does need to be changed, I hesitate to say “Improved” because really this is a nerf to NoeD in all honesty and if you stay away from totems and don’t do any, then you should be punished for it and this to me, solves it.
I believe these should be done like so:
Say if the Killer has NoeD and the survivors cleaned all totems before the last generator is completed; they should be rewarded for such a thing after the trial is over (So where it pops up on the left and you get 5k in the Survival Category at the end, you should get some amount in say Objective for it, maybe around 1000 or so - the same as cleaning a Hex Totem currently). This will apply if the survivor(s) in question cleaned ONE DULL totem. A survivor who didn’t clean at least one Dull Totem will get half and ONLY half of a single Dull Totem. A survivor who cleaned more than one Dull Totem will get an additional 50% points (Of the base 1000 value) for each additional Dull Totem cleansed. The end game point would show: "+500 Cleaned all Totems, +1000 prevented NoeD" or something like that.
This would make totems an actual objective during the game and does rightly punish survivors for gen rushing and not doing the other objectives. Sure I understand the frustrations of people saying it's for Baby Killers etc, but NoeD isn't really rewarding to prevent and totems aren't worth enough points to even clear or "waste your time" looking for and doing unless you're looking for a Hex Totem and see one. And even when there is a Hex Totem you're still not exactly incentivised to clean Dull Totems if you see one while looking for the Hex Totem in the first place. I believe this solves enough of the Dull Totem/NoeD Argument of “Just do Totems and NoeD is useless” and “Totems aren’t rewarding enough to prevent NoeD and aren’t an objective”. This makes them an objective
Just for the sake of what I do in the games, I normally solo or duo and I actively look for Dull Totems between Gens and I prioritise them due to how many killers I run into that run NoeD when I don’t look for the ######### totems, yet when I look for them they don’t have it. Swings and roundabouts ey..?
Fourthly, Miscellaneous Perk changes I would like or would want to try out at least:
Devour Hope, Huntress Lullaby and The Third Seal should only light a totem once they have received 1 token. Ruin should light once the first skill check of a generator is completed. NoeD and Haunted Grounds are unaffected by this, however, Thrill of the Hunt is slightly more complex. At the time of writing I am unsure if Thrill of the Hunt should notify you if the Dull Totem that you chose to become your Hex Totem (Say if Ruin didn’t light the totem yet) is being cleaned OR if the cleaning % is reset to 0 when the totem lights and then you’re given the notification. I prefer the latter. This is if the Killer choosing his hex totem placement is a thing, otherwise no.
Devour Hope should be notified to a single survivor if they are downed during the haste buff from 2 tokens and then the usual exposed everyone knows and “it’s time to panic” 3 token notification.
Huntress Lullaby should not notify survivors of its existence until the first skill check after the first hooking of a survivor as Huntress Lullaby is completely ineffective prior.
That’s pretty much it, these are just my thoughts that I wish would happen or at least attempted in the PTB. Looking forward to any who reads it and/or talks about it.
Comments
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Can we also buff the blind effect by making lit totems appear dull?
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Honestly that'd be interesting to try in the PTB, I'd think it may be too powerful with The Third Seal once all are hit but yeah it's not a bad idea to try! My ideas are just that - ideas, I'd love to try anything like that because I do agree blindness is kinda trash.
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I like the idea of choosing my totem spots. Because I am tired of getting the bad spots on every map every time.
For this the dull totems should be highlighted white so you can find them easier.
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And a survivor can start hooked. But killers could say for sure that this has a counter. You only need to all start together and unhook him/her.
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lol Way to over blow the whole topic my dude. You can't think that totems as they are perfectly fine. I mean one of the only reasons is this even a point of issue, (Totems) is because ruin is NEEDED to stop five minute games at rank 3+ Fix the game over all and totems won't be a problem.
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there must be more totems and hidden, but killers don't have to see them.
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This would be a nice change for me as killer, though I survivor main and normally break every totem i find while running small game.. I wouldn't be affected by it survivor wise. But it would be a massive help when playing as killer. Hex builds are so fun to play until all 4 totems get broken within a minute lol
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A survivor perk where you can get stacks by cleansing dull totems would be really nice. It would turn dull totems into a legit alternative objective.
Distortion would be nice like this. I wouldn't even go near a gen until I'd collected all those pieces of candy.
As for Hex perks, I think that they should retain some power once the totem is cleansed, so that it doesn't completely wipe out one of the killer's perks.
For example: Ruin
Totem active: works as normal (5% regression and a short stun to progression on good skill checks, no progression on great skill checks)
Totem cleansed: no regression on good skill checks but the stun remains, great skill checks work as normal (5% progression bonus)
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I like the idea of Dull Totems being hightlighted in white however I had an idea that something like that would be for a perk. No clue on the name because I am useless at name creation but it would highlight Dull Totems and have the ability for you to light a dull totem into the hex perk you brought (Or one of your choosing if you brought multiple) to be able to be used again until this totem is destroyed.
Yeah my changes were to help the 5min games with more hex perk options to run rather than just Ruin but I do agree that games like that are really not fun for The Killer.
Because my changes do affect both dull and hex totems, this should be a way to extend games just that little bit longer to give you a larger window of being able to kill survivors. I would like to try what I said before going to the drastic whole change game issue although I do support it if what I said would fail.
This would be an interesting concept to try out for Ruin specifically and I would assume something like this would also happen for the other Hex Perks? It's far less complex than my idea - I really like it. If it's tried out and it fails, try mine, and if that fails, do FoxWolfFrostFire's. The PTB is there for a reason! :smile:
not_Queef Edit: I misread but you said it would be done for the other hex perks too. :D
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Yeah, the other ones could be something like:
Huntress Lullaby
Once the totem is cleansed, the perk remains active with however many tokens it had before the cleansing (up to a maximum of 3). Therefore, there is a real imperative for the survivors to cleanse the totem early, before the killer can get 3+ stacks. So if the killer has 2 stacks when it is cleansed, it stays at 2. If he has 4 or 5 stacks, it reverts back to 3 for the remainder of the game. I don't think 3 would be OP.
Devour Hope
Once the totem is cleansed, stacks are reverted back to 2. So, you retain the small haste effect after hooking someone. Anything else would be pretty OP tbh.
Third Seal
I dunno lol
Haunted Ground would be exempt since it is not a normal hex perk.
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