Why is Streetwise not killswitched?
Why even implement a killswitch function into the game if you guys don't use it? I would understand it if it was a small bug that maybe happens once every 20 matches. But it literally makes items with unlimited charges and people abuse it almost every round.
Comments
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At this point it’s very clear that the response from BHVR on this one, for whatever reason, will be radio silence. On his latest video, Scott Jund was just showing a Twitter thread where the BHVR team immediately responded to like 70-something minor bugs and then someone asked about the Streetwise bug and if it was going to be killswitched and that was literally the only one that had no response from BHVR.
The devs clearly know about it but have decided to say nothing to the community about it. It really erodes trust with the community to just say nothing, but apparently BHVR don’t seem to be concerned about that.18 -
Streetwise does not meet the criteria for a Kill Switch. It sucks to have to say that that plainlyt, as the last thing I want to do is minimize player concerns or frustrations. The team is aware, it's being monitored, but it is not breaking the game.
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It's so funny how this dev team continues to do this to themselves consistently. This is a 9 year old game still getting major updates that break the game entirely, still introducing horrific perk designs (conviction), refusing to disable GAME BREAKING perk exploits and not even at the very least banning the people very blatantly abusing it (sorry you don't do the streetwise bug by accident, you just don't).
Hell, they didn't even load up a SINGLE game of dbd to test basically anything, which would've led them to see the massive pole that's just in the loading screen.
It's embarrassing. That's all it is, it's just embarrassing. There is no defense for a game this old, still getting handled this way. We're not in the early stages anymore, this is an established title for a near decade now. Basic testing of the game (or at least booting up literally ONE match) and disabling game breaking problems, is the bare minimum.
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Acting like streetwise isn't a game breaking bug when survivors can give themselves INFINITE TOOLBOXES AND RUN THROUGH GENS is an absolute joke. There's no way you guys are being serious.
Like I said with the above reply… embarrassing.
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Respectfully, considering how long it takes to even exploit the bug, it isn't affecting games enough to meet the criteria. I am not discounting the frustration or feedback about how it is being used. However, until it is gamebreaking, it will not receive a Kill Switch. It is a nuclear option.
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Uh. How?
What DOES qualify for a killswitch? A perk to give survivors unintentional infinite toolboxes, resulting in permanent <45s generators is absolutely gamebreaking.
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That’s genuinely shocking to hear, because this bug enables infinite item usage in a game where resource management is core to balance. Healing, repairing, and sabotage without limits absolutely breaks the core gameplay loop. If this doesn’t meet the criteria, what does? We’ve seen perks and characters kill-switched for minor or purely visual bugs in the past, but a perk that:
- Removes the need to bring charges or efficiency perks
- Turns every item into a permanent power tool
- Has been abused for over a week
...is somehow not game-breaking?
If this same exploit were on the killer side, would the decision be the same?
We’re not asking for bans. We’re asking for temporary action that matches how you’ve handled other broken mechanics in the past. Just be consistent. That’s all the community wants.
These standards are inconsistent and absolutely pathetic for a game studio this large, you go ahead and kill switch Nemesis for because of his Zombies, kill switch The Twins when they had issues, kill switched Dramaturgy when it was causing causing game crashes or unfair movement, but a bug causing infinite items? Nope, that's okay, continue on using it. "The team is aware, it's being monitored, but it is not breaking the game.", sounds like laziness, oh we'll act on it eventually, if we feel like it, meanwhile you have players actively abusing this, for over a week, without any consequence, remove the Kill Switch at this point, it's a pointless feature which you can't even use.
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It's affecting enough games where people are consistently reporting that most of their matches are filled with streetwise. It is a game breaking bug. Something literally anyone with any amount of time has been saying about it for the past week since people have discovered it.
This isn't "debatable" when the best players of your game are saying "hey this is game breaking and people are exploiting it" and even the casual players are saying "hey this is game breaking and people are exploiting it" there's no reason to hold back on killswitch. You guys are treating killswitch like it's some rare valuable thing… It isn't. It's a system YOU created for situations like this. It's game breaking, disable it. There's no excuses.
At the MINIMUM people should be getting banned for it. But you're not doing either. It's a game breaking bug you're letting roam free and on top of that a game breaking bug you're letting people exploit with zero consequences.
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i wanna speak to the manager
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Remember that time Merciless Storm was deleting Generator progress? It seems like the equivalent in terms of meeting the requirement.
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With all due disrespect, telling the player base to suck up and "git gud" against an exploit that they can do nothing about until they are in the match losing against it because its not as bad as [checks killswitch usage history] Nemesis' abusing PWYF (in theory beatable and not game breaking, huh, cherry picker much) then you dont deserve to be a community manager. What a horrible response to this bug. You all should be ashamed.
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Something is seriously off here. If there was some minor issue with Streetwise, a perk that normally very few people use, and it was killswitched for a very minor reason, literally zero people would be upset about it and would just use a different perk until it’s fixed. There just isn’t any conceivable downside whatsoever to using the kill switch in this situation, yet they are acting like it would be Armageddon if the kill switch was activated.
There has to be something going on behind the scenes at BHVR that they aren’t telling us about. Why would BHVR find it more preferable to have the huge community backlash they are getting now by not killswitching the perk to the alternative which would be an extremely low number of people who would be upset if the perk was killswitched? This just makes zero sense to me and a vast majority of the community seem to agree.
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Please let's not put words into my mouth as neither "suck up" or "git gud" is fair to infer from what I said. This is leaving out a lot of nuance. Again, I am not here to tell people that it isn't annoying or frustrating, just that in this case there is no cause for a Kill Switch. Explaining that the feature will not be used in this case does not disable my ability in sharing feedback with the team. Sentiment, however, is not part of the Kill Switch criteria.
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Respectfully then, what is the killswitch criteria?
Looking from our perspective, Nemesis got killswitched for a relatively minor bug that allowed him to get 15% Haste. Not fun to play against, but not gamebreakingly bad.
Merciless Storm was bugged for months and constantly pushed gens to zero. Streetwise is enabling infinite strong items.
I understand that there is some kind of internal criteria, but it looks like the killswitch is just being applied at random. If the criteria were shared, with appropriate explanation, it could help smooth things over.
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So the criteria to killswitch something is only if it happens too much, and not just because it’s gamebreaking by itself? Good to know. I hope things stay this consistent going forward, because if a killer has a gamebreaking bug, they shouldn’t be killswitched since not every match will be against them and it supposedly won’t affect games enough.
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Merciless Storm wasn't kill switched to my knowledge, as it wasn't game breaking. Nemesis abuse of PWYF was critical enough that the team moved forward with the kill switch. The criteria isn't my call or expertise; I'm communicating with what information I have rather than ignoring the thread altogether. I can and have takem the feedback to the team, however, that more player facing information on the Kill Switch and criteria is wanted.
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You're going to need to provide for the community the requirements for the killswitch in order to get out of this thread, as there is a paper trail of avoidance about killswitching or acknowledging the issue of the exploit. You've already notably lied in the previous comment linked by gerolau (in which you state it takes too long to exploit Streetwise, which is completely untrue - it takes one round of taking the item to exploit the bug, and this action only takes about 2 seconds to do), and I would like to note for the community that you are the main moderator involved in the original thread in which I and several other users linked videos and logs showcasing that the exploit does take considerably less time than you imply. Anyone else experiencing this issue, or just me?
edit: would like to include a clip of a video where a user does the Streetwise exploit. It is a 20 second clip from the chest opening to when he stops. Thanks to Mintskull for this clip
Post edited by 4thdslip on28 -
Nemesis PWYF is gamebreaking enough for a killswitch but this one isn't,
Merciless Storm wasn'twas apparently (point still stands), and Clown having giga haste all the time by design is fine.I don't envy the community-facing people. The live team's logic makes no sense.
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Sure, they had different opinion with the case of memesis and pwyf incident:D
Even there, I assume, maybe it took too long because first reports was more about “sentiment”. Idk, I love how they explained why many thing aren’d eligible for kill switch because of sentiment. Genuinely have to start to use the same word, when someone would be discouraged by my actions in this game
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Thank you. Apologies if my previous comment came off as directed at you instead of the team responsible for what gets killswitched.
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Sometimes the "you" is "the game" and not The Jocelyn. I get it. I also empathize with the frustration.
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Can you give us a blanket statement on what is and what is not criteria for killswitch? I and a lot of other people are completely flabbergasted by your initial response so I think some clarification would alleviate a lot of the resentment to the answer.
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Merciless Storm was kill-switched once, then returned in the first bug fix patch after its kill-switch. It still was incredibly bugged and would randomly completely regress generators if you missed the harder skill checks. I appreciate your transparency here and communicating what the team is thinking, but I'm genuinely also questioning how inconsistent the kill switch's use is. What's already a very frustrating and disappointing patch is made worse by the strange decisions that absolutely are impacting games. I respectfully don't see what makes a difference in game-breaking between what happened with Nemesis and Streetwise in terms of actual game health and people abusing something very specific to bug out. Nemesis feels singled out here, for good reason of course, because that combo was used more often. This isn't the first time the kill-switch wasn't used to address a problem in the game, and I guess it won't be the last.
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Infinite use items isn't game breaking??
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But that's the problem. It's like this dev team is playing a different game. On what planet is gens getting 99'd to 0 in seconds or INFINITE TOOLBOXES less gamebreaking than… "fast nemesis" ???? The "criteria" for a killswitch is completely arbitrary.
It's illogical. It makes no sense. Ask anyone who actually plays the game and they'll all tell you the same thing, it makes no sense. Unfortunately you have the job of being the community manager for a game that can't get its act together in year 9, but ay it's not directed towards you. It's directed towards the overall incompetence of a dev team that should know better by now.
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Yes it was. Even still they're pointing out how these perks have slipped through the cracks in absurdly broken states from a gameplay perspective versing them and that nothing/next to nothing for too long was done. Comparing this to the prior killswitching of Nemesis (which according to you saying "Nemesis abuse of PWYF was critical enough that the team moved forward with the kill switch." really just looks like the killswitch gets used when the team gets enough reports, which in an asymmetrical game doesnt seem exactly fair) it seems like the logic to killswitching things is very little logic at all, which I find to be the most frustrating part about all of this. The others in this thread are right, if the killswitch is supposed to be a quick disabling feature to non functioning parts in the game so they can be worked on in the background while not ruining the player experience, why does it have to be literally "nuclear" for it to ever be used? We know its broken, we know its being fixed anyways, games shouldnt have to be derailed and played in a wildly different manner because the other side learned about an exploit on reddit and understands nothing will happen to them if they do it.
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Yes it was
https://x.com/DeadbyDaylight/status/163574387910952960019 -
Thank you for the link!
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I understand that you are working with a limited knowledge base, but surely, we can see that regressing gens to zero instantly and gaining permanent Bloodlust Tier III are, at least, comparable issues?
If Nemesis being unable to lose PWFY tokens was gamebreaking, Streetwise providing Infinite Items and Merciless Storm regressing gens to zero instantly were also gamebreaking.
Everyone here, you included I am sure, is frustrated with the lack of information and clear rules.
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I'm sure you're a good person and that this decision is beyond your reach, but it needs to be known that this is an absolute embarrassment for the company on so many levels, and this is only one issue out of so so many that have recently been added, it's nothing short of shocking to see
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What a joke.
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Your criteria is arbitrary. The Dev team has Killswitched stuff as equally impactful as streetwise before. Nemesis, namely. This reeks of survivor favoritism.
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what sucks the most is that at this point, even if we convince them, theyre probably not going to killswitch it before a hotfix because of the amount of time itll take to pass the feedback up to… where ever it goes. by the time they get the idea that the community does deem this as a gameplay ruining experience, itll be thursday, patched out, and itll be like this didnt happen until another perk is busted and were having the same fight in 3 months with a different scapegoat telling us "well we didnt killswitch streetwise."
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then the criteria needs to change
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i don't think spamming m1 for 10 seconds qualifies for "long".
Since it will not be killswitched and people won't get banned for it, this is basically telling us it's fine to use this non-gamebreaking feature.
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I don't know if people are trying to allude that only Killer things get killswitched when Flashlights were killswitched for clipping into Lockers. I don't think there is bias to killswitch.
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Infinite charges on an item is game breaking a purple toolbox can complete a Gen in 30 seconds and Bloodrush clearing exhaustion while Sprinting IS game breaking.
Nemesis being faster got killswitched but infinite items and Infinite exhaustion perks doesn't cross the line???
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It takes below 20 seconds to do, what?
If a survivor spawns in shack with streetwise, and the chest spawns right there, they can have it open and get a 1k charge toolbox before 39/40 killers can get to that side of the map consistently. The only exception being ghoul, but then they can just cycle back to shack or another chest anyway. And the time sync to take maybe a minute to do the exploit, then make every gen you do go from 90 —> 60 seconds for the rest of the game is an insane time save, especially since it gives the killer less time to remove resources, get downs, and use perks. And that's if ONE GUY is using it, and not all 4 survivorsI've faced 2 teams who brought shiny coins to make getting chests even easier lol
Respectfully, who ever is behind the kill switch decisions on the live balance team needs to strongly reconsider their stance on what counts as "Game-breaking."
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Honestly I cannot believe streetwise, a perk that gives a huge unintended advantage giving you infinite charges in any items, not fit the criteria to be in need of killswitching?
This is just as bad as the trickster epilepsy bug taking forever to get killswitched
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when will it be fixed?
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I want to preface this with the fact that even when dbd isn't my main game i defend bhvrs balance decisions because hey its not perfect but they have a far clearer vision of what they want the game to be and what allowances you have to make for either side balance wise to ensure a fair and fun game.
That out of the way, this is one of the stupidest balance decisions ive ever seen a game make. And yes it is a balance decision. You are saying its fine for people to get functional gen progress at chests. Streetwise is now Potential Energy but with no risk and no counterplay and you don't have to do it on gens. Spam picking up items is not something that happens in regular gameplay.
You are first off setting a terrible precedent that deliberately abusing bugs to advance gamestate is not bannable. And you are conflating time spent on a chest to time spent on a Gen. Its so obviously a problem that the refusal to acknowledge it as such is the most concerning part imo.
Lastly, what are the exact Guidelines for what constitutes a killswitch necessary bug, because this decision feels so arbitrary and wrong headed the idea this somehow fits cleanly outside those Guidelines is unbelievable.
You guys do good work, what is happening here is honestly baffling.
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Are you aware how easy it is to use? Not going to say exactly how but you can easily do this in maybe 20-30 seconds and then permanently get 50-150% gen speed or more for the rest of the trial. This feels like a crazy statement to say and is very out of touch.
Even if it resulted in only a small net increase, do you guys not understand why the blood generators went so much faster? The killer cannot defend the time spent on an area other than the gens, so even if they were taking a similar amount of time (which they aren't, they are still way faster especially if you bring certain perks to get an extra 30% on the toolbox or get an engineers), it would result in gens getting completed faster to the point it breaks the balance of the game. Not only is it saving time, it is saving time in a way that the killer cannot defend, and I think the kill switch SHOULD be used for something like this.3 -
This also doesn't mention that if a killer wants to record the glitch happening in pubs without survivors stopping, they have to bring either Human Greed or Hoarder, which each add 2 more chests, making it even easier to do.
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So you're telling me that current glitched Streetwise is BHVR-sanctioned, okay to use because it's not breaking anything?
Say no more.
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This is in the same realm as the nemesis bug and should be killswitched. 15% haste (primarily) is relatively equivalent to the current streetwise toolbox bug, both still had a time investment to get, and both resulted in gamebreaking efficiency towards their objective afterwards. This feels like a disregard of the killer experience to be honest. I also think merciless storm should have been killswitched to be honest even if it wasn't as common.
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could you please clarify whether or not using streetwise and consciously getting infinite charges on a toolbox or a medkit is a bannable offense? i'd like to know if an update to my survivor build is in order.
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this also leads to concerning edge cases that can lead into hostage situations or just generally unbalanced and unfair gameplay
survivors can bring in medkits and duty of care + lucky break + overcome to constantly take protection hits from one another, escape chase, and then reheal themselves. two coordinated survivor players could extend a game through this alone severely if they decided too.
someone on the subreddit brought up the concern of using fixated and champion of light infinitely to prevent proccing chase/blind as often as physically possible.
it just really does not feel like a bug worth defending in any sense
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I know you might not be able to answer these, but can only one thing be killswitched at a time? I know Gideon is killswitched right now. Is that taking up the system resources that would be required to killswitch something else?
Also, is volume of reports a factor in the killswitch? Do killer players just need to report Streetwise incidents more to move it into territory where killswitching it could be considered?
I'm just trying to understand the situation better, and don't mean to be challenging. It just seems like the problem with Streetwise is going to become exponentially bigger the longer it stays usable.
Edit: I wanted to add: the Kill Switch Master List says Gideon is disabled:
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The last official response was in May by Mandy who said abusing unintended interactions with a perk is not bannable.
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