So much for a “fog” vial
Comments
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The gamma settings don't really make a difference.
When you see a super bright fog picture, it's probably because of a lighting effect in the map itself, and not the player's gamma settings.
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I did not know that. I think I did see the affect being amplified by shaders somewhere but that's obviously quite different to in game setting (and could be map related too).
Thanks for clearing that up.
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Ah yes he got so many nerfs on the PTB….and then got the sliding add on basekit that made him an absolute scourge to deal with. But lets leave that part out right? Consistent with the rest of the changes he got. Minor nerfs around the edges while ignoring the actual problems.
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just a question out of curiosity. Is this an example of acceptable or unable acceptable fog?
I can’t see through your eyes, but I can see through mine and I can make out shack. The object on the far top left that leads to the jungle gym. The pit in middle left. The double tubes on the right. The debris that are chilling in the middle by the tube on the right. I can see straight through this to the other side. I can literally see the other side of the map from where you’re standing.6 -
sigh my favorite item lasted only a few days. really loved the stealth builds and added more styles of play or fun to the game whats the point of a useless item?
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Okay, so in your opinion, the 15 days Ghoul spent on live before the hotfix don’t count as a grace period, only the time after that point. That is your opinion and that’s fine.
But as I’ve already said, if you truly believe there’s no difference between the grace period Ghoul received and the one fog vials received, I still don’t see how that would change your position on advocating for more time on live before changes are made. Whether or not you agree with me that the grace period was different in these cases doesn’t actually change the broader point. That allowing players more time to adapt before making balance changes is healthier for the game.
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It's what the fog is supposed to do at its current opacity. Multiple people were claiming the fog vials are affected by gamma settings, and was even claiming that if someone said the fog-vial fog is too thick, it's because they're boosting the game brightness.
No. BHVR said multiple times they can't get all the PTB changes ready for launch day, and they need additional time to get the rest of the changes done. It takes time to code all those nerfs.
Wait…. You don't think code changes are instant, do you? Like, do you think BHVR waited 2 weeks after launch, decided Ghoul needed 12 more nerfs, and then instantly coded the nerfs so they could be released the next day?
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I mean objectively they are with certain softwares. That’s not me also saying they’re not inconsistent as well under normal circumstances. That still doesn’t answer my question directly though, which is:
Where is the line for you?
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I think the only purpose left in the item is to use it as a "portable" Distortion perk, to conceal your aura.
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- The 3 bugs where the fog effect gets super boosted, need to be fixed.
- If the fog vials are going to block survivor noises, AND survivor auras, AND survivor scratchmarks, then the fog effect absolutely should be very weak.
- If the fog vials only blocked scratchmarks, then the basekit fog vial opacity can go back to the pre-nerfed value.
- Honestly, I think it's absolutely ridiculous that BHVR keeps insisting the fog vials need to block survivor noises and survivor auras. It's super clear that the vast majority of survivors only care about the visual fog effect.
- Like seriously, look at all the screenshots survivors post, when they complain about the fog vial nerfs. They only care about the visual fog effect.
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You spell everything out so much more peasantly and more conscise than just about everyone and you just get a random downvote.
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Not to get off topic here, but I have noticed that too.
Anyways, back to the fog vials8 -
FWIW I can't see a building past the fog in any of the three, though the bottom one I can make out a box and what looks like a black pole in the middle (im guessing the corner of the building?) I can see the box and the line a bit in the other two, but I feel like thats mostly filling in the gaps knowing they're supposed to be there. Same with what looks like a gate/fence behind the locker, can see it a bit in the bottom image but can tell its supposed to be there in the other two when looking back. Feel like im trying to watch the hot air balloon above the road.
So again, changes that don't really address the issue for affected people, but make it weaker for everyone else.
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Understandable.
Where’s the pallets? Survivors love pallets. They will probably be trying to get to one.
If it’s a dead zone where are the LOS blockers they would use to try and pull one over if they wanted to be stealthy?3 -
The forum ghost has struck again. I know who this is a job for!
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I don't get what you mean. Are you asking what benefit the vial is supposed to be providing? I was just giving insight for how it obstructed the view, since I couldn't see the shack you mentioned to identify it. You seemed to be able to see forever so I figured the perspective might be helpful.
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With the recent changes I'm very much in favour of making the fog thicker again but giving the vials limited uses in the match. My biggest problem with them is that people would misuse them by spamming them to avoid getting into chases altogether hoping the killer doesn't bother and leave. Hopefully with limited charges people can be more selective about using them.
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That’s not what I’m getting at. I guess what I’m trying to do is trigger constructive thinking in you to test your knowledge base outside of what you can visibly see.
For instance without being able to make out a single pallet in any of these photos I can tell you there’s not one in the double tubes so they could only hide there. There’s possibly pallets behind them in another jungle gym if they didn’t use the given the direction they are facing . There’s the pallet in shack in the back right corner past the tubes. If you go left it leads to main and there’s pallets on the bottom floor, top floor, and on the balcony by the ramp. They would probably path to shack or to main depending on where resources have been exhausted or where they think people are doing gens. Most likely go left because it’s closer.
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I think @HeroLives is referencing to the fact that maps has been smaller, which is also limiting survivors in many ways.
But to the topic on hand. From my perspective, I was clearly able to see through the smoke in certain scenarios. Only way that the smoke did obscure anything was when you were (as a killer) standing outside of the smoke radius. As soon as you enter the threshold of the smoke, you are able to see through it now.4 -
Yes, I know how to extrapolate information, I even did as much in the post you responded to. I was giving you an account of what I was able to perceive in those exact screenshots, as they were presented free of variables like graphics settings or platform. We are seeing the same images, which is why I was being direct about what was visibly discernible instead of relying on metadata.
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No, but you’re not wrong. They’re standing dead center in the middle of that side of the map and I can see the other side to the wall.
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Haven’t booted up DbD since the anniversary ended and I haven’t been happier. Heard this entire patch is a dumpster fire train wreck with nothing but bugs, so… glad I’m not playing for all this crap! 😍
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Absolutely not. The visuals are supposed to go hand-in-hand with suppressing the other things. Suppressing auras and scratch marks is useless if the killer can see all the way through the “fog” which is at best a mist at this point. The vials are supposed to be a counter to things like lethal pursuer and BBQ the same way that light born is a counter to flashlights. It’s also supposed to be a counter to tunneling.
And no, dropping it when the killer is already up your ass isn’t going to be helpful. But when the killer is a good distance away, and they still have LOS through the of the fog. It becomes pointless.The only change that actually needs to happen is adding charges.
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This game has a lot of anti-tunneling stuff for survivors, that all revolve around unhooking a survivor or being unhooked… but we're supposed to believe fog vials were designed to be anti-tunnel, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with hooks? We're supposed to believe that an item that can be used while the killer has 0 hooks, is intentionally designed to be a counter to tunneling?
None of this is believable.
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Willful ignorance. It’s very clear. You just want a 4K every single game. Maybe most of us don’t like matches that last two minutes because the killer, slugs or tunnels.
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Why are we pretending that all of the changes from PTB to Live were nerfs. Literally all of those were buffs or sidegrades…
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Honestly introducing charges is something that's going to further discourage use for me.
Toolboxes I'll use right away because what am I saving it for anyway.
Med-kits are for when I'm wounded, not in chase, and not around a fellow solo queue player that can heal me.
Fog vials with charges will just have me stuck in a permanent state of 'well, it might be better to save for later' paralysis where I don't even use the charges I have because the 'right' time to use a charge is much more arbitrary and vague for this item.
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I think what happened is that there was so much outrage at things that were bugged coming out of 9.1 that this issue just kind of piggy backed with all of the other complaints. Given BHVR, rightly, went into 'we screwed up' mode I think it led to an over reaction this.
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well, it might be better to save for later
I have feeling you play a lot of dark souls games :D
All items have charges and are limited. You decide yourself when is best time to use it and sometimes you miscalculate, happens…
I would personally prefer good effect that can help me lose the killer few times (2-3) than bad effect infinite times. But I guess that's just personal preference.1 -
In a next hotfix they're going to make them limited-time use too, right?
I think they should just revert this opacity change then. Pre-9.1.1 opacity, with limited uses. Should be a fair trade-off.6 -
How is “Reduced Reticule aiming on Survivor detection for grab-attack by 94%” a buff or a sidegrade?
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Clearly we think differently about the Ghoul timeline, but that’s not actually the point. I think we’re getting lost in the weeds here.
Can we come to some kind of agreement to end this cordially ? Meet In the middle? This feels like we’re just repeating the same things over and over and I don’t want this conversation to end up like our last one.
How is this: All things should be given more time on live before balance changes are made?
Is that a reasonable agreement?4 -
Hey, thanks. I truly appreciate the kind words. I do try and be respectful and explain my thoughts as clearly as I can. I understand that all of this stems from passion for the game, regardless of how it is expressed. I’ve had many conversations with people over the years and I guess I’ve attracted attention of someone who doesn’t like me very much haha. But that’s okay. They are totally free to disagree with any post I make! Even if it’s just me booping a pig on the nose. (I did also receive a downvote for that once)
In any case, I’m just trying to express my frustration and disappointment with the fog vials. But hopefully if enough people talk about it, the devs might revisit the changes.
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You know, that makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see it as more of a panicked reaction rather than a balance decision that was monitored. Regardless I hope the devs will consider revisiting those changes at some point. But time will tell. Thanks for offering your perspective, it’s an explanation I didn’t consider.
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That is not a reasonable argument. There should never be a mandatory grace period for new content.
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Calling survivor more stressfull thats crazy, survivor is chilling even when you are soloq only thing that happens to soloq is that you feel powerless because of your teamates decisions in times where you are on the hook or slugged and see them fall like flyes. Killer is just race you are against time, survivor has more time on his side and its more in his favor, killer must manage many things like chases,gens deffence and keeping preasure on four people so he slows them down and doesnt get rushed in 5 minutes. When I play more survivor I feel like watching netflix while using keyboard its way too chill compare to the avarage killer experience but all that depends who you play against 100 hours meh that cant loop or 3k above sable sweat lord who is training for competitive thats huge difference for stress only bad thing you will have as survivor are soloq teammates doing stupid mistakes that makes you loose thats only downside of survivor.
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They were ok untill whole team had them and gave each chase 10-30 more seconds that could be more chalanging for mediocre killers but idk what devs are cooking now they nerfed vials fast and killswitched street wise only because preasure from comunity for them infinite items isnt problem.
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I wouldn't call it anti-tunnel, but it clearly was designed with being a mini catchup for Survivor in mind. In my opinion that is. Slow down Killer just enough that maybe you can escape a chase or pick up a downed Survivor and reset easier.
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Alright, so you’re saying outright that you don’t think there should ever be a grace period for new content.
If that’s your position, then all the back-and-forth about Ghoul timelines doesn’t seem actually relevant to your stance as you simply disagree with the idea of giving content time on live before changes, and that would include the changes that to Ghoul. Fair enough. As there doesn’t seem to be any kind of common ground between us, perhaps it’s best to end this here?
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There are two types of changes for new content:
Category 1: Changes that BHVR already knows they want to make
Category 2: Changes that BHVR wants to "wait and see" before deciding if they should happen
Category 1 changes should be made ASAP. Category 2 changes can have a grace period. It is appropriate to SOMETIMES have a grace period, but it is never appropriate to have a mandatory grace period.
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Just remove the fog vials and refund bloodpoints
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bold of you to assume we have any to be compensated for (seriously I'm having a harder time farming smokes than farming double iri for myers)
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I mean, a few thousand BP for free doesnt hurt lol
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It seems like we’re at a fundamental impasse here. You don’t believe grace periods should be a standard practice, and I do, so there’s not much value in continuing if we can’t even agree on that baseline. I’ve made a few attempts at finding a common ground but it doesn’t appear there is one here. Unless you’d like to offer one? Or perhaps we really should just end this here?
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There's zero common ground. According to your logic, if a killer is released, and has a 90% kill rate, there should still be a mandatory grace period before the killer is nerfed. And therefore, the survivors should be forced to deal with a 90% kill rate killer, for the duration of the mandatory grace period.
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If you truly believe my stance is “leave a 90% kill rate untouched” then I haven’t been able to explain my point in a way that you can understand, and I’m sorry for that. I genuinely don’t know how to make it clearer.
I’ve made multiple attempts to offer common ground, and even asked you directly to provide your own when mine were rejected. You declined, and instead it feels like you chose to intentionally reframe my position into something unreasonable so you could dismiss it, which makes a genuine exchange impossible.
If there’s no willingness or even a desire to find common ground, then this is no longer a discussion, just an argument, and I don’t want to argue for the sake of arguing. I’ll be stepping away and won’t respond any further. I’m sorry we couldn’t understand each other here. Maybe next time. Gliyn.
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Same reason they balance for 60:40
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Hens isnt killer bias main like otz.
Syeah hens is right
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I have feeling you play a lot of dark souls games :D
I don't want to go back to a campfire, everything's just going to respawn anyway. Must conserve resources! 😄
So far as charges, I feel like it really already does - just in a more psychologically palatable form for me. I mean, assuming a 10 minute match that puts it at 10 charges max if I really pay attention to firing it off every time it's up, am available and unhooked every time the cooldown is up, and I have that cooldown reducing add-on attached. Then, most of those are going to be pointless and not affect the killer at all because they're very unlikely to be coming after me or trying to read my aura once a minute, every minute for the whole match.
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And somehow people think it's not enough.
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