http://dbd.game/killswitch
Fog Vials have a max of 2 charges now
LMAO
Please just remove the item completely and refund some bloodpoints
I would take even no bloodpoints if the item doesnt appear in my bloodweb anymore
Comments
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Back to medkits and tooboxes then…
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Man…
You'd think it'd be 3 at least. No revert on the opacity changes either.
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Why did they even introduce this item from the first place if they are gonna gut this so harsh?
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Nah they can just delete them from the game, I don’t want these wasting my bloodpoints.
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This is unbelievably ridicoulous, enjoy y'all syringes and toolboxes.
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100% agree with the idea of just deleting them from the game. Ridiculously useless.
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Should have kept them just for special events. They are next to useless and totally pointless now.
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Welcome back Syringes and BNPs.
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Welp! I haven't really used them too much but yeah this seems way too harsh.
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their pick rate already plummeted massively from the opacity and iri addon nerfs from last week and now with these changes you’ll never see these again outside of survivors trying to troll and meme. so much for a “new and fun brand new survivor item.”
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Hey folks. I totally hear your concerns here, but also want to give some background. Balancing is an iterative process that takes time to find a sweet spot, and this is very much another step in that process. To quote one of my favourite fantasy series', "journey before destination".
We 100% want to hear your feedback once you get a chance to play a few Trials with this new change, so please let us know how it's feeling. We're here to grab that feedback and make sure the team is made aware.
-52 -
2 charges and no compensatory buffs. Yikes. Can't say I'm surprised, but I was at least a little bit hopeful they would make them a bit stronger now that they have limited charges.
Vials have gone from an item that got me excited to play Survivor again to something I'd rather they'd remove from our bloodwebs.
Honestly a colossal waste of development time and effort.
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I wonder, are Fog Vials items that can be boosted with Built to Last?
If so, they might still be usable with a dedicated build. Outside of that, two max does seem like too harsh of a nerf, they're not as potent as flashbangs or anything so I don't think they need to be as restricted.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see BHVR revisit Fog Vials a little down the line, this reads like a knee-jerk overcorrection because everyone's mad at them at the moment.-5 -
I think the fog vial's opacity needs to be equalized for every maps first. In some maps its opacity isn't too bad but in some maps it's like non-existant.
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I appreciate being active thats something that i value a lot, you show it as a community manager.
My take is that im worried limiting fog vial will promote people to still just stick to gen rushing with toolboxes rather than go for something new even if its prolonging games which it should due to killer queue times.
I found the fog vials to be fully reasonable even with a cooldown and not limited to charges, if anything i think toolboxes as an item need adjustments over fog vials
-5 -
The reason why I can see some distrust here is most likely because of what was done to Knotted Rope, where its still in a basically useless state and Skully. Both have been said that youd take feedback but we havent seen change for either of them for months while they remain in a very poor state
To me it feels like the balance philosophy here is as it was in 2017 where Freddy got butchered within a few days of his release, and only received a rework 2 years later.
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Whilst I understand that, these Fog Vial changes didn't feel like an iterative change. The changes to reduce them to 2 charges was locked in over a week ago before people had a chance to play with and against the new numbers in HF1, so it was really a giant nerf from release fog vials to now in 2 hot fixes.
Meanwhile, Clown who's had equally as passionate feedback about how miserable he is to go against and play is waiting for PTB testing so is left in that state for 7-8 weeks. I appreciate that survivors won't always go against a Clown, and killers are more likely to see Fog Vials, but the speed at which balance changes happen/iterate seems very inconsistent from the mid-chapter/chapter release to when they'll be addressed based on feedback.
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Totally hear you on that! This is something that the team's aware of and are looking into.
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Please don't quote Brandon Sanderson. That book series hold a deep place in my heart and this change(s) you made to the fog vials have been insane! The extra funny fact is a key element to those books are about struggling in isolation while learning to thrive together. Something bhvr has show they don't do by ignoring the community.
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What do you mean, we've been giving you feedback on it ever since it launched and the only feedback you seemed to listen to were the people calling for nerfs.
With all due respect & IMO, that sentence about it taking time to find the sweet spot is total bull. It took you 1 week to nerf this item upon its release followed now by this nerf, but now you want to 'take time' to adjust it?
No, I will not be using your awful item now, when you ignored feedback for 3 weeks on one side.
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Here’s the feedback you requested: The community as a whole has given feedback on the changes from last week. They’re not good. I don’t think anybody needs to play any matches to know that two uses of something that’s already useless. Just makes it more useless. You aren’t going to get any future feedback because nobody is going to use this item anymore.
As far as balancing, survivors, get items because killers have powers. With 40 killers on the roster that is 40 different powers, and we have to adjust for all of them. There is nothing unbalanced about killers, having to learn how to play around one single new item. If the stance of the team is that they shouldn’t have to, which it seems to be based on all of the nerfs, then why should survivors have to learn new things on each killer release?27 -
Being seen within the fog ruins the whole 50/50 of hiding in the fog or keep running...I'm forced to just run out of the fog and not use it to mindgame. Even if I do run out of the fog my silhouette is still visible and I'm forced to use the Iridescent Add-On.
2 charges is pointless compared to all I can do with other Items.
Also, buff Blood Amber. Either remove the penalty or revert it back to only I can see the Killer Aura.
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Definite overkill with this update. I would have at least thought they'd align it with Key or Map charges, so maybe 4-6 goes, depending on rarity.
I hear what they're saying about balance, but it's clear even in theory 2 charges is not enough, especially with the weakening of opacity.
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Understandable, but after this change I feel no desire to "test" them now or pick them up. Maybe when I get one from a chest, if I have even time to open one.
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"That takes time"
Except you guys gave it no time... they were here for like 7 days before you decided to just kill them
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It's amazing how they made 3 survivor items completely useless in one patch 😆
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These devs should be embarrassed.
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Feedback? Do everyone a favour and delete the item from the game
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I appreciate that, but the overwhelming feedback (at least on the forums, unsure of other platforms obviously), was that Fog Vials were rendered ineffective with their most recent nerf, even with unlimited capacity.
I'm not sure how making a bad item worse would garner any sort of differing response. It's pushing it further away from the sweet spot, not towards.
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And then survivors are only sticking with medkits, toolboxes and flashlights and killer mains will keep complaining until those items are also nerfed lmao
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Unless of course the balancing is regarding a paid killer with an insane hitscan issue that has received endless complaints due to how bad it feels and how little counterplay there is. I suppose if it generates money, instead of being an "iterative process" it turns into "this is on our radar" for 4 months?
It's too bad you could use the very outstanding eyes that told you Fog Vials needed to be useless within 1 week of release on the killer that has gone entirely unfixed for nearly half a year.
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Yeah. Sadly instead of giving survivors more variety in item pools they drastically lower it
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Not only did they add limited charges, but they STILL have the >1 minute cooldown!
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It’s disappointing that the fog vials still block survivor noises and auras, even though most survivors really only care about the visual fog effect. Fog vials are still “quiet mode” that’s 4 times the area of fog crystals.
And medkits and toolboxes desperately need to be rebalanced, so they are around the same level as keys, maps, and fog vials. It’s clear that the new reworks of keys and maps are never going to be popular, as long as syringes and styptics exist as they are. And survivors are just going to continuing threatening to use toolboxes and medkits, unless those items are finally rebalanced (like maps and keys were).
-40 -
Chiming in here to agree with this. There’s always going to be a very tight window where most people on both sides feel like something is reasonably balanced. It will never be possible to make everyone happy because there are unreasonable people on both sides who are upset if they don’t win every single match. These are new items and finding the sweet spot for balance is going to take likely multiple more iterations.
With that being said, I do think there are some major issues with how BHVR balances things. Changes very often seem to swing way too far one way or the other, and that happened again with fog vials. Original fog vials should have been slightly nerfed to start and then adjusted further if needed. Instead, they were immediately nuked into uselessness and now have to be buffed again (maybe several times) to be worth actually using over other stronger items.4 -
I think it would be best if you undid the previous nerfs and then balanced the density of the fog and the number of charges based on add-on and item rarity.
So if you have the best Fog Vial lets say it has 2 charges, and if you use the iri-add-on to make it even better it gets reduced to 1 charge so you have 1 time amazing use. But if you use the weakest Fog Vial, lets say it has a default of 4 charges, because even with the best add-ons, it still isn't as good as the best one.
This would allow BHVR to balance the vials based on how the character is using them. The stronger chase focused Fog Vials would be much more limited in use, whereas the weaker Fog Vials that don't block all view but still hide scratch marks/auras could have more charges allowing for creative use without blocking the killer from seeing anything.
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I have no doubt they'll have all of that sorted out for you soon
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It's already happening on this thread. 🤣
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100% hope they do your suggestion.
The number of charges a Fog Vial has should depend on its rarity and how dense the Fog is.2 -
Sorry, but I'm calling total bull on that. Devs were quick to harshly nerf something to the point where no one will ever use it again. Actions speak louder than words and seems too often feedback is ignored and thrown out even. The latest DBD/WTD stream having DDoS attacks Otz knew the solution to it everyone was saying it and that was ignored and thrown out. Changes takes an unacceptably too long with no information what's being done. The knotted rope add-on that Houndmaster has and Skull Merchant being intentionally left in a gutted state for a year. No one can or likely will ever be able to provide proper feedback due to no one ever using them when their in such a useless state.
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2 charges only is overkill
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Either way i said what i said, sad reality is this item could have been a golden ticket to proper ratio of items maybe even pull the survivors away from using gen rush builds and just go for fog vials instead.
Like so many possibilities with fog vial as an item would be possible before prior to these changes, like i loved using it againts BBQ perk since it helped me and my buddy or a random to do gens in silent mode and not be spotted.
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"Balancing is an iterative process that takes time to find a sweet spot".
What do you mean by "time"? You've nerfed this item every week, it already received 4 nerfs since it was released, how do you expect people to adapt to the introduction of a new feature when you destroy it in just 2 weeks? You didn't give people any time to use it and immediately started nerfing it without any reason. And now you're talking to us about giving "time"?23 -
We’ve had so many screenshots of survivors only caring about the visual fog effect, that I honestly don’t know why it’s so important to BHVR that the fog vials continue to block survivor noises and auras.
At the very least, they shouldn’t affect survivor noises at all. It’s extra ridiculous that the fog blocks survivor noises, but doesn’t block killer noises.
-24 -
I totally hear the frustration here and know I personally can't change how these nerfs feel for you, but I do want to make sure the feedback I'm bringing back to the team is as specific as possible and as representative of your experiences in the game as possible. With that, it makes it easier to advocate for changes.
If you don't mind me pulling this back a step to dig into the details, I'd like to ask two specific questions:
1. Of the two recent nerfs to Fog Vials (reduced opacity; max 2 charges), do you feel that one of these in particular pushed the item from feeling viable to feeling like it's not worth using? If so, which was it?
2. If you could make one specific change to Fog Vials that'd push them towards being an item you'd enjoy using, what would it be?
I hear the more general feedback (and rest assured, it's being collected and shared with the team), but if there are specific facets of the recent nerfs that felt most impactful, I want to make sure I'm giving them my particular attention. That, and things that could make Fog Vials feel better for you (like the great suggestions of increasing the total charges a little more).-9 -
I made an account specifically to respond to this absolutely destructive nerf. I've been mainly playing killer lately (thanks BP bonuses) and I've seen a lot of fog vial usage, but I've only lost a survivor in said fog like three times total. Most people still haven't figured out the best way to use them, and you can still see survivors in said fog pretty easily since they all pop it when you're right on top of them.
But nerfing it to two uses? Why? Were people complaining that badly about not being able to see scratch marks for a few seconds? Are you going to nerf the other survivor perks that hide scratch marks too? I don't want to sound rude here, but no one is going to use fog vials anymore, and I won't even pick it up if I see it in a chest. It's not worth the item slot for a two use item that already has a useful success rate of less than 10% (from my own experience.)16 -
- Revert the opacity nerf, increase charges to 6, rework an add-on to give 1 or 2 more charges
- the change above
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The opacity nerf killed them, 2 charges at max is alright, could be 3 with the rarest variant, the visceral variant add-on is worthless even activelly making the vials worse, make it add one more charge, simple.
-8 -
Personally speaking, I would say the lower charges is the more substantial nerf. Fog Vials do have other effects than the literal fog itself, so reduced opacity does hamper them but doesn't outright stop them from working entirely. Only having two uses of a fairly inconsistent effect is much more of a concern, and would certainly push me to think "Why risk not getting value from my only two uses when other inconsistent items like flashlights have far more attempts and there are more consistent items than both of them like medkits, toolboxes, and keys to bring?"
Addressing Fog Vials in exactly one change would be difficult, so if you'll permit me a little bit of a cheeky answer, I'd probably say "reducing the number of effects while increasing the number of uses".
Ideally, I'd make Fog Vials infinite-use on a recharge but make it so they don't muffle footsteps - just lessening their potency while giving players more attempts at using the weaker effect. If I were to nail down what would be appealing about Fog Vials as an item, it's that they offer chase-based effects that aren't as restricted as other items.If they are as restricted as other items, it makes them hard to justify bringing. Weaker but more plentiful is better than stronger but fewer in number here, in my opinion.
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