Dev Update Good + Bad + Suggestions
Anything I do not mention as a Remove/Adjust I think is a fine change that I would be okay with going through.
Slugging Reduction Update:
- Adjust: If a Survivor is left in the Dying State for a total of 120 seconds during a match, they gain the ability to pick themselves up after fully recovering (was 90 seconds).
- Remove: Added the ability for Survivors to recover while crawling. Recovery now occurs passively with no need to hold a button.
Tunneling Reduction Update:
- Remove: When a Survivor is hooked, their hook status is hidden from the Killer. When they’re unhooked, there is no notification and their hook status isn’t revealed immediately.
- Remove: Immunity to Killer Instinct
- Adjust: Instant regression on the highest progressed generator (was bonus damage for the next generator kick)
This is important because many killers cannot benefit from an increased generator kick to a significant level. No Huntress for example is going to find great value out of this, so it needs to be more like pain res, which is solid on most killers because they do not have to deliver it.
- Adjust: If a Survivor dies before 4 total hook states, all remaining Survivors gain a repair speed bonus for the rest of the Trial (was 6)
Note: This repair bonus cannot be greater than like 10%, unless every single other repair speed option is nerfed down to a reasonable level.
- Remove: If the Survivor that was last hooked is Sacrificed or Killed, generators cannot be regressed or blocked.
I just cannot think of a way to implement this that would not be abuseable and met with survivors off hook feeling invincible. Having a balance between the base regression and being punished with increased efficiency if you hard tunnel someone out feels more like a fair incentive/disincentive structure to me (along with the other more minor benefits for either end).
Everything else I think is pretty much fine, obviously I will need to test the specific perk changes, but I think generally exercising a bit more caution is a good idea. Another thing to note though is that the off hook benefits should still last 10 seconds if it was increased.
Comments
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Basekit Tenacity I can take or leave. I'm a No Mither main and the Killer usually won't let me get away if they know what I'm up to, so I don't think it'd make a huge difference unless they're not paying attention at all. It's one of those things where with it, they can just run Deerstalker and without it, I can just run Tenacity.
The 120 seconds I'm not a fan of though. I don't think Killer realistically needs 2 minutes of pressure on one Survivor. That's half the bleed out timer and almost 2 generators. It totally defeats the purpose of Survivor having more autonomy during the slugged state. If you gave the player something better to do during that time, I wouldn't hate it. But otherwise it's too much (in my opinion).
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Slugging is fine, hard slugging for a bleed out is not, which is met with a hard penalty of unbreakable after (120) seconds on the ground. If stuff like sabotage, pallet saves, plot twist didn't exist sure the 90 seconds is fine, but I think having infinite pick ups after 90 seconds on the ground is a bit extreme no?There needs to be no doubt that this doesn't interrupt normal gameplay (the game has functioned relatively fine for years and survivors have plenty of tools to counter slugging already), and I think exercising caution outside of the most severe scenario is good. Base-kit tenacity also just hurts certain killers disproportionately and makes certain perks stronger.
Post edited by TripleStryke on1 -
I could compromise on one over the other, I think. 120 with Tenacity, or 90 without. Otherwise I don't think it'll make a very big dent in the problem.
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I'm sorry, do you want to be invincible? Not to be rude, but if you have been playing the game and think you need both unbreakable and tenacity base kit with no compensation for the killer, you need to improve and not make significant macro mistakes. If your teammates are throwing in a team game, they also need to improve. I think hard slugging is a problem (specifically for solo, and really only in the context of blindness), but there are a variety of reasons leaving someone on the ground is a good or NECESSARY decision to the point where punishing it is crazy. This is not something that should happen in normal gameplay, so the only reason you would want either is to just have 1-2 free perk slots.
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I could also see the changes where if a survivor that just got unhooked decides to go for flashlight saves and sabotage hooks or even doing gens ever so slightly would fully refresh their hook cycle so killer can still go for them but not as they could when they just off hooked.
So for me what i experienced to extreme is tunneling after being unhooked and chased and followed.
Like i think its going to be unfair lets say there are majority of maps where there are hooks or scourage hooks where killer has to hook 2nd person, what if its right infront of the 1st hooked person.
I think after each hook it should refresh not trigger anything.
Generally speaking we will see if 90s is pretty good adition to getting them downed go for tactical slug and get the third survivor hooked before going back.
Also im fairly certain that if they die before 6th hook state then they get perma buff till the rest of trial.
I could settle for 4 hooks + with adition if a survivor is self sacrificed aka forces to die on hook or sacrificed by team then it wont work or trigger the effect for others.
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That is a very huge stretch. I never said we need Tenacity. It's that anti-slug needs some weight behind it to be effective. I understand Killer needing to down someone to gain pressure, especially during a hook standoff. But I find 2 minutes, which is again half of the bleed out timer, to be excessive. 90 seconds without Tenacity is perfectly fine, because again it's an added effect that doesn't make or break a whole lot and can be covered either way with perks. But 2 minutes is excessive to me, so adding Tenacity to offer more autonomy is more appropriate in that scenario. Otherwise you're asking for less engagement and more breathing room for Killer, which doesn't balance it enough against slugging (in my opinion).
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I feel like basekit Tenacity is fine, but the recovery speeding up isn't.
I would also remove the killer Haste after hook and the aura reveal for survivors after unhook.
The rest I can agree with you.
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basekit tenacity means you’re more likely to lose someone you down if you leave to do something for like 20 seconds. Having the choice to crawl to me is fine, but being able to do both is a really strong effect, especially because you’re charging a free unbreakable as well if you lose them. I think the crawling speed gradually increasing is fine, but it should either be 90s or the timer resets or 120s and it doesn’t reset (which I would prefer tbh), with recovery while crawling not being in the equation
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Recovery should be automatic when you're not moving.
They should keep the hidden hook status to reduce camping and tunneling
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(I'm going to sound very mean spirited in this post, especially in the intro due to my opinion on these changes)
90% of the planned update is BHVR babying skill issues, as a lot of it is clearly untested and something that only affects public matches, hence why they allow them to be disabled in private matches because they know the tournaments won't survive with these changes that prove BHVR and good game design in the same sentence is juxtaposition.
With that initial negativity out of the way, here's some feedback that could actually make the update somewhat workable:
1. Remove the punishments, except for the hooking gen repair speed bonus and change it to less than 4 hooks, but make it ignored if there's less than 2 generators left.
2. Make it so it's 120 seconds spent downed before you can recover and resets each time you are unhooked or you recover, but you can once per trial work with another survivor to heal both of you by one health state (once per survivor and doing so expends a charge for both survivors).
3. ALLOW THE KILLER TO HAVE INFORMATION ON THE SURVIVORS WHEN THEY ARE UNHOOKED, also allow killers to see the hook stages on survivors.
4. make the unique hooking rewards regress the highest generator and the generators being worked on by 70% gen progression speed for 30 seconds and block the generators for 30 seconds (also enable gen regression of blocked generators) unless you are a fast mobility killer such as Nurse, Blight or hillbilly, in which case you get the gen regression when you hit a generator, additonally make the slower killers who do not benefit from gen regression when they kick a generator have somewhere between 15-20% haste for 15 seconds.
5. Make the losing collison with other players part of endurance and scrap elusive off hook.0 -
WHY should I be left on the floor wasting my time for 2 mins… Just play with an ounce of skill and pick up. Very simple
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