🚨 Anti-Tunneling and Anti-Slugging features got delayed 🚨
Comments
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No one saw that coming, no sir.
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Interesting, I wouldn't have assumed fixing this would actually require a delay.
Then again, I can understand wanting to be extra careful. It does kinda mean this patch is gonna be a little empty though, lol
We'll still have, what… new characters obviously, Myers rework, and a couple of the perk changes?
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They are big changes, and it is important to get them right.
I just hope that they don't scrap them completely. Pretty much every idea in them is good, it's just the execution of some of them that isn't. For example, I feel that 6 hooks is too punishing, it should be 5.
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Except for all the doomposters on reddit, twitter, youtube, etc, who was absolutely dead certain that bhvr would be pushing the changes from ptb to live as they were no matter what, regardless of feedback.
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Which was absurdly emotional and illogical. Fog vials didn't even survive. They thought this would?
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I am sure I am at least 100x more shocked than you are.
100x zero is still zero, though ;3
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All perks were reverted to "normal" or only the ones associated with the anti tunneling/slugging system? Because some perks could really benefit by the changes
Clairvoyance
Friendly Competition
No Mither
Leader
Lucky Star
Pharmacy
Poised
Quick Gambit
All Shaking Thunder
Dark Arrogance
Ruin
Oppression
Septic Touch5 -
This is crazy. Do they realize how killer-sided this community is. Like of course killers are going to complain about learning to adjust and actually play the killer.
Like I've said before, the loudest voice in the community will control the flow of the game. Even if it's causes unfair gameplay for the opposing side.
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I don't think they'll ever come tbh. It's Behaviour. How many times have they let us down in the past.
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If no one made an uproar about the changes, they would have just been pushed live.
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I think we'll get something, but neutered to the point of borderline uselessness.
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You mean like anti camp? 😂
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Todays a good day
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Yes, but that's not what i replied to.
People genuinely believed that bhvr would go through with these changes as they were, regardless of people's feedback.
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And here comes the us vs them.
People on BOTH sides that are actually capable of rational and objective thought were agreeing how god awful and game breaking all these changes are, because they are. That's how you know how bad this was.
Your second sentence is literally what you are trying to do to killers right now, forcing unfair and aisine gameplay.
There's nothing wrong with taking the time to get this right for both sides. Anyone moaning doesnt want that.
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Hope EVERYTHING else EXCEPT Myers having a dash comes the way they are to live, specially Ruin at 150%.
Also more pallets in realms like Crotus Prenn Asylum Realm should not come.-6 -
Trying to implement these changes while ignoring the peculiarities of 40 killers was bound to fail completely. I'm afraid many people won't like this, and the backlash is already inevitable and deserved for proposing something like this without considering all the possible consequences.
The game has been self-balanced around tunneling since its inception. You can't expect only 4 killers to be viable overnight. If you announce a perk overhaul and the first thing you read in the patch notes is nerf after nerf to the perks that slow down the match, you're obviously not being realistic with your proposal. Because the pace of the game is the biggest concern for both sides, the survivors don't want to lose in a matter of minutes, but neither do the killers.
This should result in someone getting fired, but we know that won't happen until it's too late.
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Bye bye dbd more and more players will leave
Like the big exodus of surv 2 years ago
Enjoy the long waiting time killer mains and get rdy to play alot vs bots on custom games
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That loudest voice seems to be people who either exclusively play killer or just barely touch survivor. But 80% of any match is survivors, so these killer-only players have to be a massive minority. The people who play only survivor or play both just aren't obnoxious enough to make change.
I want to enjoy both roles and, from my playing, only one side is in need of a little boost, especially for soloq players. But even a boost to both wasn't good enough.
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Testing out some ideas that didn't even go live shouldn't lose you your livelihood.
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Please, explain how this is us vs them?
You know what was god awful and game breaking? Ever since the idea of "meta shakeup," there have been lots of nerfs to survivor gameplay and perks. But you know what's crazy? We adjusted, learned to play with what we had. You wanna know the outcome? We've learned to loop, be team players (for the most part), coordinate, unless you were new.
Then, it became more of a challenge for killers. They either got outplayed and resulted to tunneling and slugging, or learned to play and got better. You can't sit there an tell me you play survivor and say it's fun and fair.
The killers that never adjusted and learn to play kept on tunneling and slugging, making it their goto strategy. It's fine in certain games, but not all the time. You abuse the style, you ruin it for everyone.
Also, if you play the game as intended and not comp style, you'll soon realize how much you've given a buff as the killer than the survivors get theirs.
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That's exactly how it will turn out. I will make a bold prediction right now and say that somehow killers come out of this stronger than before. We get a useless anti tunnel and anti slug that doesn't do anything and killers get basekit pop and BBQ.
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I think so too. Killers will get to keep their new basekit perks and survivors will get one extra second added to their basekit BT or something lame like that.
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That's how the world works. If you're a waiter and you keep dropping trays, you'll get fired.
Just look at the forum right now. It's burning with discontent from the survivors. And all because of a problem that they themselves created by proposing radical changes without considering all the possible consequences. This whole PTB has been one giant case of negligence.
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I'd say this is for the best. They are on the right track with some of this stuff, but they do need to make some pretty significant changes and if they feel they need more time to do it the right way, I'm 100% okay with that. I just hope they don't abandon it completely or make it too ineffective in the process.
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Killers are and always will be the community's biggest echo chamber, and nothing will ever change my mind about that.
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Not a single real match was affected by this. People being mad on the internet is their own choice. No one is forcing you to type.
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People on both sides were saying the changes sounded fine, just needed some number tweaks, or seemed fine in actual PTB matches as well. You seem to ignore them in your analysis of how bad this was.
The simple fact is no anti-slug, anti-tunnel mechanic will never be considered 'right' by people who only care about the killer gameplay experience. This is clearly evidenced by the actual dialog that has taken place regarding these changes over the past week or 2 - their arguments have been as much against the mere idea of anti-tunnel/anti-slug mechanics as against the specifics of these mechanics.
Having played on the PTB myself I know from my own experience that matches using these new rules are simply not unreasonably difficult for killers nor are they unwinnable for killers. In fact, they weren't really any different for me at all because I don't slug excessively or tunnel.
This was always going to get the same treatment anti-face camping and fog vials got when killer players started complaining - nerfed into uselessness. I'm surprised it took less than a week on the PTB to get there but some influential killer players were running around with arms flailing about like panicked Muppets so I suppose that helped.
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To further the prediction, I predict they'll still act like it was some survivor sided change.
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We should start a betting pool. Whoever wins can use the money and buy themselves a new cosmetic to get tunneled out in.
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ngl… I expected some tweeks and maybe removing one thing or two… not a full "we'll do it later".
which is the correct choice. these changes should have been the entire ptb.
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Well considering it's anti face camp it works as intended. Previously you could literally face camp a survivor out and no one could do anything about especially when hook grabs existed. It is and always has been anti face camp not anti proxy camp or complete anti camp in general.
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Thank goodness. It was so overturned and overshadowed
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I really dont get why this is so hard for people to understand honestly.
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Wow, you are just making stuff up
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I understand the caution and potential risk to their bottom line if they don't get this right. I get it, these changes rock the boat. They're not conservative. But I hope BHVR can hold their nerve and give Survivors something substantial at the end of all this. It's honestly frustrating to see the community not even willing to give these changes a real shot on the live servers. I was looking forward to seeing what impact the full fat versions of the new systems would have on just playing the game the way I usually do but nah, it's too much to ask for the wider community to get a chance to test things out. *Insert popular DBD content creator here*, reddit, twitter, the steam community forum etc said it was all bad, so I guess it must be. But what if players outside this weird little bubble of obsessive DBD superfans might actually like the changes if they ever came to the live servers? Now we'll never know.
Imagine if the Killer buffs go through in full but we get a watered down anti-tunnel system that's barely much better than base-kit BT… That would be the nightmare scenario for me. Or it would be if I still played much Survivor.
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Ehh, i did expect them to pull this move believe it or not these were all at once given to us in PTB and judging how harsh values are and half of perk values were not really properly stacking too.
They will most likely have to go through all of perks again in the survivor roster and killer roster and balance it from user and streamer feedback.
Lower that 6 hook requirement before kill to 4 will be also very smart move.
Remove basekit pop and replace it with basekit pain resonance since the gens were popping more than usual in the PTB.
Basekit pop is just way too situational time consuming only worth running on S tier killers to just get right at the gen and rotate meanwhile on m1 killers including new myers rework its still not viable.
I will however say basekit corrupt should so badly be brought in game and allow gen repair but at stock repair speed and you cant use any perks or items to accelerate repair speed.
10% haste is marvelous for the amount of time you get it for allows you to travel 8meters extra depending on ongoing perk and killers.
Killer instinct needs to come back
Real time unhook notification and sound needs to come back
Elusive is super fine and it really helps it should stay in game and polished way more and tiny value changes and gain from it.
Idk if i missed anything?
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I did keep mentioning to you guys the new system will be released unchanged in PTB and that it most likely wont hit live servers at all lol until it gets hardcore polished.
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care to elaborate?
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Can you stop with the "us vs them" mentality? People actually care if the game is good. Its not always some conspiracy.
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We've also discussed hook counter being visible to killers quite a bit. I'd also mentioned a unique aura color for each survivor with a corresponding HUD color. The problem with both of these is that if they don't absolutely nail the anti-tunnel, they will be wesponized as pro-tunneling tool instead.
I might disagree on the sound notification for hook. Real-time visuals on the hub can maybe stay for those who pay attention. Killer instinct is a bit of a problem since you can't distinguish who's who with it, and it might cause you to choose the wrong mark on accident.
Elusive is good but needs tweaking to also not be weaponized even worse than the BT protection hit. Item interaction, like flashlights and pallets, needs to be completely paused during Elusive.
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what about what I said indicates us vs them? And do you believe that this game doesn’t already promote that behavior? What do you think maining a role is? I think what need to be talked more about is how toxic behavior is poisoning this game. What about making the game fair for both sides is “us vs them?”
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It had to be punishing otherwise people who have always relied on tunnelling for thousands of hours will not change. If the negative to tunnelling is too weak, they will not change because it does nothing to them. It is just standard baby killers crying - Otz crying and then BHVR bow down to it. The syringes will be gone soon too, Otz doesn't like them. The survivor bloodweb at this point may as well just be removed.
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It will be punishing, I hope.
Keep in mind, there are genuine issues with the system currently. I don't think many people have an issue with tunneling when it's done at 2 gens left and 3 hooks, for example.
Ideally, tunneling at 5 gens, or 4 gens or at high hook stages should be more punished than tunneling at low gens and low hook stages.
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Well, maybe it actually was too punishing, as many predicted, but were then insulted by and dismissed by many on this forum.
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there have been plenty of people claiming that tunneling is never ok, regardless of the situation
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Tunnelling is tunnelling - Even with the system that was brought in killers weren't just being punsihed for tunnelling, they were being rewarded for not tunnelling too. How many examples can you give where survivors have been rewarded for not doing something to killers in a game? When do survivors even get a reward in the game? The 1 in 15 games that doesn't have someone tunnelled out from the start?
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Yeah the ptb isn't a fair assessment. Console players have no access, or Epic players. It's so limited. It's also going to be full of people intentionally exploiting it to test its limits, which doesn't give a great idea of how average, casaul, or non-streamer players will interact with the changes.
With each day of more and more screaming, I saw it coming more and more. Especially when I see posts like "look what happened to this content creator." Then you know something is doomed.
I agree, they need to get it right. I'd said in another post that they should have done this separately from the new killer/survivor release. This was an absolute overload of additions.
I think that's become everyone's (well, everyone reasonable) concern--that killers will get to keep everything and survivor, the already struggling role, will get little to nothing.
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I think in a perfect DBD, yeah, tunneling should probably go. (to your point tho, the comment above this one lol)
I don't think BHVR can do that, but you also have to remember that tunneling has been extremely prevalent for the last four years especially. When you dangle the chance to remove the bane of someone's existence in front of them, they are gonna try to get it removed lol.
There should probably still be some downsides for tunneling at lower gens, but not harsh.
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The game is asymmetric, the Survivor role and Killer role are unable to be compared, as they are functionally two different games.
So that would be the first issue.
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